Referendum 2023

Status
Not open for further replies.
What are you talking about? "Sovereign citizens loading guns and shooting up cops..."?
Firstly, its an oxymoron to suggest Citizens can't be sovereign. By definition its not possible - yet more B.S. coming from media and politicians. And I'm not sure why you brought up the shooting in Qld. That has nothing to do with any point I was making - not that I can see, anyway.
And I could care less about Lidia Thorpe or what she stands for. So don't try and tell me what I want.
This is a politically initiated referendum which in itself is unconstitutional.
We already have 3278 Aboriginal corporations
243 Native title bodies
48 land councils
35 regional councils
122 Aboriginal agencies
3 advisory bodies
145 health organisations
11 indigenous federal MPs
$33 billion annually in funding
If the indigenous folk who need the help aren't getting it, then serious questions should be asked of the existing organisations tasked with providing it. Enshrining yet another level of bureaucracy over the top of what is already there is madness.
The last paragraph says it all, imo.

Do we really think our Government and the big corporations pushing this agenda, really care about the Aboriginal people? They never have before. It’s all about controlling the land though the WEF and their so called Great Reset! As soon as Elmer (Albanese) was elected PM he went straight over to the ‘powers that be‘ in Europe to get his instructions on what to do next to stuff our nation. The Voice is just part of that plan, there’s more to come peeps, brace yourselves! Or better still, wake up and start praying 🙏🏼 That’s all I have to say.
 
I am aware of most of that. There are many questions though.

This paper glosses over what the Referendum Council achieved.
The council members: https://www.referendumcouncil.org.au/sites/default/files/report_attachments/Appendix A - Referendum Council Membership.pdf
Held a consultation process in the form of a series of First Nations Regional Dialogues over a 6 month period in the following centres:

9-11 December 2016 - Hobart​
10-12 February 2017 - Broome​
17-19 February 2017 - Dubbo​
22-24 February 2017 - Darwin​
3-5 March 2017 - Perth​
10-12 March 2017 - Sydney​
17-19 March 2017 - Melbourne​
24-26 March 2017 - Cairns​
31 March - 2 April 2017 - Ross River​
7-9 April 2017 - Adelaide​
21-23 April 2017 - Brisbane​
5-7 May 2017 - Torres Straight​
10-12 May 2017 - Canberra​

These meetings culminated with the National Convention at Uluru 23-26 May 2017. From these dialogues, the Uluru Statement from the Heart was constructed. After going to all this trouble, do people really believe that this highly credentialed and educated group of people, after consulting delegates from such a massive array of backgrounds and experiences, entering into dialogues and taking advice in dozens of different languages with elders and land councils all over this contry, only managed to come up with a 1 page document? Professor Megan Davis is on record stating it is 18 pages long and goes into detail for how Treaty will be brought about, how reparations will be sought and even how those reparations will be funded. Why are we being fed this line that it is only 1 page long?

We now have 2 Policy and Stakeholder Consultation Advisory Bodies - including a lot of the members which did not serve on the Referendum Council. These bodies are called the The Referendum Working Group and the Referendum Engagement Group and the members were all appointed by Linda Burney.

The Referendum Working Group consists of 21 paid members who "will provide advice to Government on successfully implementing a referendum within this term of Parliament on an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice enshrined in the Australian Constitution including timing to conduct a successful referendum, refining the proposed constitutional amendment and question, and the information on the Voice necessary for a successful referendum."

The Referendum Engagement Group consists of 61 paid members which "includes the Referendum Working Group members as well as additional people from across the country including representatives from land councils, local governments and community-controlled organisations. They will provide advice about building community understanding, awareness and support for the referendum."

All these people - these passionate, experienced, educated, dedicated people...all supported by the public purse...for nearly a full year now...cannot come up with a coherant blue print for how certain aspects of the Voice will be conducted. Why are they pushing so hard to get it through this year when they are clearly not ready?

The Voice will give independant advice to the Parliament and the Government
These representations will go through a research and development phase and will be made proactively by this body, in response to requests by the Parliament and Executive Government as they move forward on the development of proposed laws and policies.
How long will they be given to make their representations?​
There are 250 mobs and over a thousand clans in this country the consultation process will surely delay the work of Governments?​
How many workers are required in this body to thoroughly research and present proactive representations?​
Will they be using contractors? If so, what is the process for awarding contracts?​
How much will this all cost?​
The Voice will be chosen by Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people based upon wishes of local communitities
Members of the Voice will not be appointed by the Executive Government, but by Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander Communities, abiding by the wishes of local communities and would be determined through the post-referendum process.
How many representative areas are there?​
Is there a cap on Voice membership?​
Will there be Indigenous elections for these positions?​
Membership is for a fixed period of time. What is it?​
Can members be removed ahead of this fixed period?​
What happens when a member dies?​
Why are these details to be determined post referendum?​
The Voice will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander communities, gender balanced and include youth
Members will conform to the 3 part test for authenticity and will be chosen from the States, Territories and Torres Straight Isands - remote and mainland. Membership will be gender balanced at national level.
I assume the 3 part test refers to the Proof of Aboriginality as detailed in the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres StraightIslander Studies (AIATSIS). This details:
  1. being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
  2. identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
  3. being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived.
Is this process working currently?​
There seems to be a rise in fraudulant claims of Aboriginality already...do they expect this to get worse?​
Most Aboriginal societies operate under a matriarchy. Why is there a need to balance gender representation when it has operated this way for 60 millenia?​
Will this result in lesser value candidates for membership?​
The Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory do not count as states for the Majority of States count in the referendum. Will this lead to lesser representation for Voice membership?​
Same outcome for the Torres Straight Islanders?​
How many remote Torres Straight Islanders will be eligible?​
What is the breakdown in Voice membership pertaining to location? cities v rural v remote?​
I have many more questions, but you get the idea...

Thanks for posting that, all sound questions.
I don't have answers to any of them quite frankly.
In the same token, I don't think that any of the
points that you've raised should sink the vote
 
The Australian has backtracked. Another bold
face lie and smear. She wasn't addressing voters.

It's a pretty fine line to walk. Even if it's not saying that the voters themselves are racist, it's saying that they're voting that way because they've been influenced by a racist campaign. Potato Potaato.

Just to be clear, I'm Yes. But I'm not ignorant to the fact that I vote that way from privilege.

I can clearly see why people would vote No without being anything racist. There are lots of pockets of Australia that have their own issues that they aren't getting help with. Our first people are certainly worthy of being at the front of that queue, but some people may not see it that way. Especially people struggling themselves who could use a voice.

The Yes campaign really needed to sell to the Australian people why... Why do our indigenous people get more special treatment? We're a multicultural society where everyone is supposed to be equal.

It really is a massive flub from the Yes campaign. One that I don't think they will recover from. It's their "deplorables" moment.
 
Last edited:
“Every time the No cases raise their arguments, if you start pulling it apart you get down to base racism, I'm sorry to say that's where it lands, or sheer stupidity.

"If you look at any reputable fact-checker, every one of them says the No case is substantially false, they are lying to you."


I’m not sure I can agree with that?
I think people could be voting NO because they’re not stupid and know the devil is always in the detail.
If the YES vote doesn’t get up it definitely won’t be because of racism and stupidity. More likely Albo’s inability to negotiate with the opposition, but then again, is this a fair dinkum referendum? Or a political game?
 
The last paragraph says it all, imo.

Do we really think our Government and the big corporations pushing this agenda, really care about the Aboriginal people? They never have before. It’s all about controlling the land though the WEF and their so called Great Reset! As soon as Elmer (Albanese) was elected PM he went straight over to the ‘powers that be‘ in Europe to get his instructions on what to do next to stuff our nation. The Voice is just part of that plan, there’s more to come peeps, brace yourselves! Or better still, wake up and start praying 🙏🏼 That’s all I have to say.
What a remarkably conspiratorial, paranoid and stale view of the world. Full of old tropes recycled over and over by various Guru types to lure in vulnerable people. Get out of the rabbit hole, switch off the internet and jump into the real world - it's actually not such a bad place.
 
Last edited:
It's a pretty fine line to walk. Even if it's not saying that the voters themselves are racist, it's saying that they're voting that way because they've been influenced by a racist campaign. Potato Potaato.

Just to be clear, I'm Yes. But I'm not ignorant to the fact that I vote that way from privilege.

I can clearly see why people would vote No without being anything racist. There are lots of minorities in Australia that can have inherent issues. Our first people are certainly worthy of being at the front of that queue, but some people may not see it that way. Especially people struggling themselves who could use a voice.

The Yes campaign really needed to sell to the Australian people why. You don't sell things by insulting potential people who might buy-in.

It really is a massive flub from the Yes campaign. One that I don't think they will recover from.
You live up to your call sign. Hammertime.
 
It's a pretty fine line to walk. Even if it's not saying that the voters themselves are racist, it's saying that they're voting that way because they've been influenced by a racist campaign. Potato Potaato.

Just to be clear, I'm Yes. But I'm not ignorant to the fact that I vote that way from privilege.

I can clearly see why people would vote No without being anything racist. There are lots of minorities in Australia that can have inherent issues. Our first people are certainly worthy of being at the front of that queue, but some people may not see it that way. Especially people struggling themselves who could use a voice.

The Yes campaign really needed to sell to the Australian people why. You don't sell things by insulting potential people who might buy-in.

It really is a massive flub from the Yes campaign. One that I don't think they will recover from.

Don't disagree with that assessment at all HT.
Inferring that voters are either racist or stupid
is a bold strategy. I was just making a point of
order. Still 1 month out but it's uphill from here
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Staff online

Members online

Back
Top