Referendum 2023

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Kaito said:
Don't disagree with that assessment at all HT.
Inferring that voters are either racist or stupid
is a bold strategy. I was just making a point of
order. Still 1 month out but it's uphill from here
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Yeah mate. The extreme left just couldn't help themselves! Had to play the R card.

If the vote comes back a 'No', there will be more of it. They're just managing to bite their tongue for the most part.
 
This is just another test. After lockdown - they sought of woke the people up. A little. The rest are still waiting to unmask the masked singer.
 
Wearyfan22 said:
Only Weary about the Tigers!!
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As an aside, the word "weary" always rings true to me about Colonel Sir Ernest Edward "Weary" Dunlop, the 2nd World War Australian hero surgeon who was renowned for his leadership while being held prisoner by the Japanese Imperial Army.

And the nickname "Weary" was a reference to his last name—"tired" like a Dunlop car tyre.

So champion @Wearyfan22 - you win me on a few levels!
 
hammertime said:
Yeah mate. The extreme left just couldn't help themselves! Had to play the R card.

If the vote comes back a 'No', there will be more of it. They're just managing to bite their tongue for the most part.
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A lot of racists are voting No to be clear haha.
Treating the general public as racists and mugs
isn't a clever strategy though. You hit the nail
on the head in your previous post when you
said "The Yes campaign really needed to sell
to the Australian public why" That's the crux of
it all - It's probably what will sink the Voice too
 
There have been some pretty good and reasonable perspectives put forward from both cases in this thread I have definitely done some reflection on my own ideas over the last few days thanks to this. From a strong yes, to a yes with serious reservations. I still think yes on the basis that nothing else has worked. It's downside is small and its upshot is potentially big.

To me there are many viewing the Voice through a nearly entirely political lense (Lib/Nats v Labor), or views seriously skewed by where they get their news and aren't actually able to engage with the idea because of this (both for the yes and no cases). That is a shame.

End of the day the result will be No. Thanks for the engaging discussion. I tap out at mentions of the New global world order, world economic forum and climate change is a hoax silliness - gives me too many lockdown 2020 vibes.
 
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Enmore_Tiger said:
When you get into the detailed mechanics of it, Colonialism is a process of Capitalism.

So it was Capitalism that destroyed aboriginal society and now it is coming for your generation as you cannot buy a house, cost of living etc as you describe. Capitalism determines the minimum wage that has not moved.
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Capitalism doesnt determine the minimum wage, Government in conjunction with unions and employer group arbitrarily determine a minimum wage. The actual wage that people gets paid is determined by capitalism and is almost always higher than the minimum wage because it is an actual factor of the employees intrinsic worth due to the market, supply and demand for labour. Capitalism works and has been the driving factor behind the fastest process of lifting billions out of poverty over the last 100 years.


Enmore_Tiger said:
In the case of the large gap between aboriginal society and the rest of the nation (as in 'closing the gap') it is an extreme gap created by capitalism. So while the prevailing economic system exists, that gap will never be closed.
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Aboriginals are excluded from the market?
 
Kaito said:
We have/are wasting billions of dollars on things
like Robodebt, Jobkeeper & nuclear submarines
In the last few years. None of these things have
kept you or anyone from getting your first home.
Cost of living crisis has nothing to do with the
voice — it's due to corporate greed, tax breaks,
negative gearing, lack of wage increases,
so on and so forth. Not saying Albo has the
answers by any stretch, but the last decade
hasn't been very kind to the battlers if that's who
you're waving your flag for. Sad state of affairs.
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The current "Cost of living crisis", more accurately monetary inflation, has nothing to do with corporate greed, tax breaks, negative gearing or wage increases. 3 years ago inflation was at record low rates and has been for a long time and all of those things existed prior to that. The sole cause of the current inflation spiral is simply federal governments globally (most notably the US) pumping trillions and trillions of dollars into the economy for 'Covid rebates', climate programs, stimulus etc at exactly the same time that global supply chains were broken. Too much available cash in the market chasing scarce commodities equals inflation. its a very simply formula.

Housing affordability also has nothing to do with it. The housing affordability crisis is directly a predictable result of two things. Firstly the ponzi scheme that poses as our current immigration policy which brings in 230,000 new people a year, all needing housing and secondly the insanely liberal foreign investment policies.

People whine and howl about buzzwords and peripheral things when in truth the problems are more simple but bigger and the real problem is both sides of parliament support these issues.
 
Kaito said:
Absolutely MM. Couldn't agree more with your
assertions. We've been on a death spiral it seems.
1/10 people are visa holders is a crazy stat
too — skilled migrants? we're outsourcing Labor.
Need to close hiring loopholes. Job stability
is a big issue. Seems we've already sold our souls!
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Its a ponzi scheme developed and supported by both sides of parliament. The rate of Population growth driven by immigration outstrips the rate of increase in GDP which means that our economic growth is a complete mirage driven by both sides of politics propping up their lack of actual policies and development by flooding the economy with new mouths. Like all ponzi schemes, one day the house of cards will collapse and the price will be paid.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Its a ponzi scheme developed and supported by both sides of parliament. The rate of Population growth driven by immigration outstrips the rate of increase in GDP which means that our economic growth is a complete mirage driven by both sides of politics propping up their lack of actual policies and development by flooding the economy with new mouths. Like all ponzi schemes, one day the house of cards will collapse and the price will be paid.
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Thats the good news. Karma never sleeps.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
The current "Cost of living crisis", more accurately monetary inflation, has nothing to do with corporate greed, tax breaks, negative gearing or wage increases. 3 years ago inflation was at record low rates and has been for a long time and all of those things existed prior to that. The sole cause of the current inflation spiral is simply federal governments globally (most notably the US) pumping trillions and trillions of dollars into the economy for 'Covid rebates', climate programs, stimulus etc at exactly the same time that global supply chains were broken. Too much available cash in the market chasing scarce commodities equals inflation. its a very simply formula.

Housing affordability also has nothing to do with it. The housing affordability crisis is directly a predictable result of two things. Firstly the ponzi scheme that poses as our current immigration policy which brings in 230,000 new people a year, all needing housing and secondly the insanely liberal foreign investment policies.

People whine and howl about buzzwords and peripheral things when in truth the problems are more simple but bigger and the real problem is both sides of parliament support these issues.
Click to expand...

Mistymuzzle said:
Its a ponzi scheme developed and supported by both sides of parliament. The rate of Population growth driven by immigration outstrips the rate of increase in GDP which means that our economic growth is a complete mirage driven by both sides of politics propping up their lack of actual policies and development by flooding the economy with new mouths. Like all ponzi schemes, one day the house of cards will collapse and the price will be paid.
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Good shout. Interesting points you've raised
there MM. Good example of bipartisanship
I suppose lol. What's the end-game in your
opinion though, if what you say is correct?
decentralisation of the dollar? Scrapping carbon offsets? Putting a halt to immigration?
I'm not sure how you've equated the things
In your post to a ponzi scheme, genuinely curious
 
Tim Sheens said:
Oh come on, their slogan is "Don't Know Vote No", which is literally, if you are ignorant, vote no.
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I think the point is, if you read the actual proposed amendment, it is actually impossible to know the scope, power and composition of the Voice, therefore many will vote no.

When its actually written down in english its hard to be ignorant.

With genuine respect to all the yes voters, I actual feel that it is the yes side of the argument that is potentially more ignorant, or probably better to say, more willing to fill in the blanks themselves. Plenty of yes voters telling me "The Voice will just be this...", The Voice will just be that....", "The Voice doesnt have the power...".

Thats all fine. popint me to the words in the proposed amendment that says that.
 
Kaito said:
Good shout. Interesting points you've raised
there MM. Good example of bipartisanship
I suppose lol. What's the end-game in your
opinion though, if what you say is correct?
decentralisation of the dollar? Scrapping carbon offsets? Putting a halt to immigration?
I'm not sure how you've equated the things
In your post to a ponzi scheme, genuinely curious
Click to expand...

You are too smart for the UAE Kaito. We need you here. Will you reconsider?
 
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