Most skilful player / GOAT debate

twentyforty said:
Luai has more skill than Benji imo. He has the same 3 steps off the left etc. hasnt quite mastered Benji’s attacking kicks to the in goal but has everything else.
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Crazy statement. I don't think we've seen anywhere near Luai's best, but Benji is the GOAT stepper/X Factor
 
Tucker said:
Hmmmmm. No, I don’t think so.
Benji had a magnificent slight of hand when going short and his utter unpredictability when running it drove defences crazy.
His highlights reel will last more generations yet.
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Don't think I've seen luai make a line break in broken field play yet. Benji is a match winner. Luai has been a great backup in NRL so far. He hasn't proven he can win games with a try, goal kick, field goal, or 40-20 yet. Benji's consistency was the biggest issue for me
 
Tucker said:
No. This is wrong.

His rep career began in 95. He was the halfback for the blues in that series where Fatty's spare parts team beat pretty much a Test standard team 3 zip.
In 96 he was removed from the 7 jumper in favour of Tooves who led the side to a 3-0 whitewash, collecting player of the series along the way.
In 97 he again played hooker with Tooves in the 7 and NSW won the series.
In 98 he took over the halfback role and lost the series 2-1.
In 99 he was the halfback and the series was drawn with QLD retaining the trophy...for those playing along at home, the only series wins he was apart of were when someone else was the halfback. He has had 2 seies losses and a draw as halfback himself.
In 2000 he came off the bench in games 2 and 3. Noddy directed the team to a 3-0 whitewash.
In 2001 he was injured and didnt play.
In 2002 he was halfback and delivered a drawn series, failing to secure the third game win on home soil. QLD retained the trophy.
In 2003 he finally cracked it for a series win with him in control. It was his 8th go at it....
In 2004 he was injured and didnt play. NSW won
In 2005 he produced his best performance, actually living up to the hype. He delivered games 2 and 3 for a series win. It was his last series.

All in all his NSW rep career spanned 1995-2005...which was NSW's most dominant period and during that time, he played 16 games as the halfback winning just 2 series at a 50% win record (7wins, 7 losses). That period also included 2 drawn series where QLD retained the trohpy. When he wasnt the halfback during this period, NSW had a record of 11 wins and 6 losses.

He represented Australia 25 times.
12 of those he was halfback with a 75% win record (9-3).
13 of those he was hooker with 100% win recored (13-0).

As for Newcastle:
He played 250 games with a win rate of 61.6%. Toovey had 286 games @58.4% as a comparrison.
The first of his premierships was 1997. He played 8 of the 22 club rounds + 3 finals games. He was good that year, but was he instrumental to that premiership? Additionally, it was a weakened comp.
2001 was his great year where he was the reason Newcastle won that comp.
Officially he had 15 seasons, however 93 (3 games), 2004 (3 games) and 2007 (2 games) really dont count. Therefore he played 12 seasons for 9 finals appearances. Good record.

I think he was a very good club level player. However he did not excell in rep and as a result, I think the shower of praise, award wise, he received for his efforts in clubland alone, makes him overated.
As an example of the over praise, I refer to 1999. That year he won every award you could win...Dally M half of the year, Dally M player of the year, Provan Summons Medal, RLW Player of the Year and the Golden Boot.
This was the year he delivered a 59% win rate for Newcastle, failed to secure the State of Origin series by drawing game 3 on home soil and played one test for Australia at hooker.

Very good, but not the GOAT.
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Andrew Johns international debut was 95 world cup where he played 9 and toovey 7 minus all the superleague players
 
GNR4LIFE said:
I feel like the 90’s was the greatest era. There were no stupid rule changes every five minutes. You didn’t get suspended and sin binned for trivial rubbish. No coincidence it produced the best footy. Andrew Walker was a player I thought about today, reading this thread. His high balls could bring rain. Gus referred to him as one of his all time favourite players.
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Good observation.

I'm always a bit shocked when I see games from the 90s (even though I watched a lot of footy back then).

Individual skill and playing what was in front of you played a much bigger role than today's structured gameplans.

For mine, that's a much more enjoyable type of footy to watch.
 
rugbygoated said:
Don't think I've seen luai make a line break in broken field play yet. Benji is a match winner. Luai has been a great backup in NRL so far. He hasn't proven he can win games with a try, goal kick, field goal, or 40-20 yet. Benji's consistency was the biggest issue for me
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If I had a choice for 6 and both were 26yo, hands down I’d take Jerome every day of the week. Just my opinion.
 
Leck said:
Joey was super talented and proved it, no doubt! However, he has admitted that it was drug-assisted.

Regardless, the only conversation I want to have is how do we sign Bradman Best?
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Drug ASSISTED? Stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this forum … and that’s saying something.. despite using recreational drugs is what you should have said… nothing performanice enhancing buxximg around all week on pingers and not sleeping because you were wired off your head on rack … he dud ai all despite self sabotage,, and that was because he was self medicating due to other issues.. on the field is what he should be judged on ,, especially when judging his skills and abilities on the field.. nobody is saying he is an absolute role model or saint
 
king_sirro said:
Just on the Johns and Origin debate, it's worth noting that Joey had 2 periods where stupidity selection and bias meant he either played 2 positions, or played hooker.

Chris Anderson's push for Kimmorley was disgraceful and meant Johns had to play hooker. I rate Kimmorley, nothing against him, but Johns was robbed of the 7 spot.

There was also a time they would name Toovey at 7 with Johns at 9. Johns would defend in the middle making way too many tackles, then play half in attack with Toovey moving into dummy half. It really was just silly stuff.
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And remember the hits he used to pull off .. fair dinkum I remember Joey smashing Tallis a few times, just picking him and driving him, he was a revelation in defence… used to axe people the same as gillmeister, I used to LOVE IT 😻
 
king_sirro said:
Everyone with any sense of normal thought knows those selections you have brought up to support your point were wildly wrong and weirdly circumstantial as I have pointed out, but I'll do it again just for you.
Chris Anderson had a huge personal bias towards Kimmorley. His national selection of Noddy lead to State selection at this time. Everyone rated Johns the better 7.
The Toovey situation was just plain weird. To name Johns at 9, make him defend in the middle but play 7 in attack showed how above everyone he was. They made him play the hard part of 2 different positions.
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And he did it on his ear, better than they all did any part of the game.. that’s why he is the 8th immortal.. he was hands down the best, by a mile
 
Todd Packer said:
Steve Rogers was the greatest player I've seen lace on a boot.
He was Cronulla. When Wests played the Sharks without Rogers you could bank the 2 points.
The way he adjusted his play as he got older was like no other player I've ever seen.,
From being the best balanced, most elusive centre in the game, to a skillful 6 with great hands and then a great defensive lock, still with the hands and the deception.
There's been nobody like him in my lifetime.
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Brett Kenny was very very similar
 
Sausagesorcerer said:
JT ,Slater , GI and Locky are the best I’ve witnessed. JT and Locky being the most skilled.Although GI is the player i consider the best ever,rarely got tackled 1 on 1
Coming from a staunch New South Welshman.
Benji is definitely up there in terms of pure skill,and i can confidently say in his prime he was the most exciting player to watch.inconsistency was always his issue ,but when he was in form our whole team looked like rep players.
Matty Bowen was another player I always loved watching,something always happened when he touched the Ball.
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Yeah, well GI is a new south Welshman,, just played origin for qld … in a move I still struggle to understand or accept… I’m certain that if he was in the nsw team and not the qld team then the “DYNASTY” a would never have happened,, despite qld still having smith, slater, Thurston, locky, Cronk,
 
The different eras probably make the debate a little harder and some other factors (their club, the squad around them, rep or comp dominance etc).
My family swears Cliffy Lyons was the most skilful they'd seen..That he's underrated like Darren Lockyer.
I can remember loving Andrew Johns, as a player, and considering him the best ever but watching Thurston in origin totally put me in awe of the guy. QLD won games/series they had no right to win, due to his vision and execution.
Benji was the best hands down (skill wise) IMO, he was capable of doing things we'd never seen before.

For the GOAT debate, hated him yet personally felt Cameron Smith retired as the greatest competitor of the game. To consistently play as well as he did, given all the changes we've seen in the game is probably the main reason why. His on-field leadership was also second to none.
Either way, that generation produced a lot of good footy and some very special talent.

Great thread. It's interesting reading everyone's take.
 
TigerNeddyK said:
Drug ASSISTED? Stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this forum … and that’s saying something.. despite using recreational drugs is what you should have said… nothing performanice enhancing buxximg around all week on pingers and not sleeping because you were wired off your head on rack … he dud ai all despite self sabotage,, and that was because he was self medicating due to other issues.. on the field is what he should be judged on ,, especially when judging his skills and abilities on the field.. nobody is saying he is an absolute role model or saint
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Recreational drugs aren’t the only drugs people refer to with Johns.
 
Jedi_Tiger said:
Andrew Johns international debut was 95 world cup where he played 9 and toovey 7 minus all the superleague players
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You didn’t say International originally, you said rep.
Yes this is correct.
His first rep series was Origin 95 where he was embarrassed by Fatty’s B team.
 
Lauren said:
The different eras probably make the debate a little harder and some other factors (their club, the squad around them, rep and comp dominance etc).
My family swears Cliffy Lyons was the most skilful they'd seen. That he's underrated like Darren Lockyer.
I can remember loving Andrew Johns, as a player, and considering him the best ever but watching Thurston in origin totally put me in awe of the guy. QLD won games/series they had no right to win, due to his vision and execution.
Benji was the best hands down (skill wise) IMO, he was capable of doing things we'd never seen before.

For the GOAT debate, hated him yet personally felt Cameron Smith retired as the GOAT. To consistently play as well as he did, given all the changes we've seen in the game is probably the main reason why. His on-field leadership was also second to none.
Either way, that generation produced a lot of good footy and some very special talent.

Great thread. It's interesting reading everyone's take.
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Cliff Lyons was amazing his 1987 season for Manly outstanding and in the FG won the Clive Churchill medal
 
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