Alcohol

[Halbrowne61]

You're right. A few years ago I had surgery and when I left I was given 6 packets (24 tabs) of Endone for pain management and told to take it when I felt pain. I'd never heard of it. When my oldest son came home he asked me if I knew Endone's nickname. As I'd never heard of it I said no. He said it was referred to as 'hillbilly heroin" and was highly addictive. I was shocked that I was given Endone without any explanation of the risks.

Some years ago my wife developed bowel cancer and went through a botched operation for which she spent 3 months in a major Sydney hospital, half of which was in ICU.
She developed a real “thing” with Endone but thankfully was weaned off it over some weeks.
Strong stuff and very addictive. Handle with care.

 

[The Fresh Oil]

its disingenuous to quote peer reviewed scientific research?

Did you read it?

 

[The Fresh Oil]

Yes, did you?

obviously im not talking about the summary but the actual peer reviewed studies into the potency of THC content. you read all them?

 

[The Fresh Oil]

Yep....heres one

Association of Combined Patterns of Tobacco and Cannabis Use in Adolescence With Psychotic Experiences - PubMed

In this study, our findings indicate that while individuals who use cannabis or cigarettes during adolescence have an increased risk of subsequent psychotic experiences, epidemiological evidence is substantively more robust for cannabis use than it is for tobacco use.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nope, you’re just googling until you find things that support your point ( which I don’t actually care about) you are saying you are a paid up member of Lancet and read the articles you used as evidence. Really simple question.

 

[The Fresh Oil]

or another

Association of High-Potency Cannabis Use With Mental Health and Substance Use in Adolescence

This cohort study examines the association between cannabis potency and substance use and mental health outcomes, accounting for preceding mental health and frequency of cannabis use.

jamanetwork.com

how many you want?

I just clicked on some and I’m not sure how much time you’ve spent in academia but they are really poor examples if you’re looking for silver bullets. You speak in absolutes while the papers speak in “may” and “can” while specifically mentioning levels of THC as pillars of the study. Not really “pot causes more mental issues than booze”

Again, I don’t care and I haven’t ever or don’t smoke, I just don’t like dishonesty by people using science as weapons. Good luck to ya Cheech.

 

[BZN]

Not sure if you're taking the piss or not, but I'll take it on face value. Haha.

Definitely not taking the piss Kelce68. Your posts make interesting reading.

 

[BZN]

had a mate and an uncle diagnosed with bladder cancer, both smoked. When my mate went to see the doctor, the first thing the doctor said was you have to stop smoking. Apparently pretty much all bladder cancer is smoking related.

Good post Mistymuzzle...everyone knows about lung and throat cancer from smoking, but I doubt many would know [as I didn't] how common bladder cancer is related to smoking.
Thanks for bringing it to the forefront on the forum.
For all those that don't read my posts [and there are probably lots] they'll hopefully read yours and get the message.

 

[BZN]

Can we nominate this as the dumbest post of the year? March too early?

If you keep on smoking those foot long cigars WC you'd better watch out 🤔.
The way you have it hangin out of the corner of your mouth, lip and tongue cancer is a possibility.

 

[coivtny]

Some years ago my wife developed bowel cancer and went through a botched operation for which she spent 3 months in a major Sydney hospital, half of which was in ICU.
She developed a real “thing” with Endone but thankfully was weaned off it over some weeks.
Strong stuff and very addictive. Handle with care.

Totally mate. It should be much better controlled than it is.
Sounds like your wife had a terrible experience. I hope she’s had a positive outcome.

 

[Halbrowne61]

Totally mate. It should be much better controlled than it is.
Sounds like your wife had a terrible experience. I hope she’s had a positive outcome.

Thanks mate, all good now but she does spark up if she hears the word Endone !
Only kidding.
She’s back to full health and thanks for asking.

 

[Winston Churchill]

its disingenuous to quote peer reviewed scientific research?

Its disingenuous to post a cheery picked article that does not compare with the point one was expressing in the original post.

 

[upthetigers]

Maybe because it was more pure back then? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Not a question of purity, but THC content (what makes you high). Weed in the 60s and 70s had around 3-4% THC content and now it's like 15% on average. If you're smoking high THC strains on a regular basis then you're asking for trouble. Even more reason to legalize the industry so you know what you're getting.

 

[The Fresh Oil]

The original post was stating that weed is safer than alcohol. it is not safer for people under 25yo. The "article" wasnt an article, it is a peer reviewed meta analysis which is the furthest thing from a "cherry picked article" you can get.

What is disingenous is to argue against scientifically proven research when it contradicts your world view.

The original post was stating that weed is safer than alcohol. it is not safer for people under 25yo. The "article" wasnt an article, it is a peer reviewed meta analysis which is the furthest thing from a "cherry picked article" you can get.

What is disingenous is to argue against scientifically proven research when it contradicts your world view.

I’ll make it simple for ya.

You said:

On this planet, right here right now, pot is more dangerous to people under 25 than alcohol by a long way. Responsible for majority of youth schizophrenia and bpd. More than doubles the chances of schizophrenia or psychosis.

You then link some tedious references to some limited trials based on a very specific level of THC.

My only issue is your statement that pot is more dangerous than alcohol to a particular age group. It’s just untrue and disingenuous. Australia has a strong drinking culture that starts young and revolves around binge drinking. Alcohol is available almost everywhere. Alcohol can be purchased legally from a young age and no restrictions on potency or amount of the drink.

High level THC cannabis would be no where near as common as a JD a Coke. To compare the impact of a specific type of cannabis to alcohol is really silly, it’s like saying fentanyl laced heroin is worse for you than unlaced heroin. Well duh.

If / when pot Is legalized and then it’s is socially acceptable like booze AND the high level THC is consumed at levels you see people drink then, at that point your statement could be taken seriously.

 

[Pom Tiger]

Seems about right, well, depends how old you are. In my younger days it would be nothing to drink 2 slabs over a BBQ in 6-8hrs. In my 20s I'd down 6-8 pints a night after work at the pub in a few hours, go home and do it again the next day. In the 80s I got arrested in Spain for being publicly intoxicated after drinking 2 bottles of rum and 15 beers at a bar. Never paid the fine and skipped the country, not sure if I'm still wanted in Spain for an unpaid 10,000 peseta fine from 40 years ago 🤣

Last time I drank (big one) was about a year ago and that was 5 beers and a few nips of rum and I was done for the night and felt it for a month afterwards. Drinking isn't an old mans game. I reckon once you hit 40 its over, the body cant process it like it used to.

Always up for a Spain war story.

 

[Buttface]

Maybe because it was more pure back then? 🤷🏻‍♂️

More pure? 🤷‍♂️

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I’ll make it simple for ya.

you would struggle to make it anything else.

You said:

On this planet, right here right now, pot is more dangerous to people under 25 than alcohol by a long way. Responsible for majority of youth schizophrenia and bpd. More than doubles the chances of schizophrenia or psychosis.

Because its true. Not because I say its true but because a large number of peer reviewed studies, a meta analysis published by the Lancet, and the associate professor of neurobiology at Stanford University says its true. Your sources?

You then link some tedious references to some limited trials based on a very specific level of THC.

Bullshit. What was the "specific level" of THC in all of those studies? "Tedious references"? The Lancet? Associate professor of Neurology at Stanford? Canadian Association of Neurology? Tedious references? What are your sources?

My only issue is your statement that pot is more dangerous than alcohol to a particular age group. It’s just untrue and disingenuous.

I have posted peer reviewed scientific research saying it is true. What is your source that it is untrue? Because you dont like the message or the messenger?

Australia has a strong drinking culture that starts young and revolves around binge drinking. Alcohol is available almost everywhere. Alcohol can be purchased legally from a young age and no restrictions on potency or amount of the drink.

High level THC cannabis would be no where near as common as a JD a Coke. To compare the impact of a specific type of cannabis to alcohol is really silly, it’s like saying fentanyl laced heroin is worse for you than unlaced heroin. Well duh.

You are making the mistake of looking at the problem at a community level, not an individual level. Alcohol is a much bigger problem in Australian society that weed, but thats not what I said. Weed is more dangerous, for an INDIVIDUAL that is under the age of 25 than alcohol is. Its a simple, scientifically proven fact. Yes more 24 year olds are harmed by alcohol than weed but that is at a society scale and taking into account car accidents etc but on an individual basis, weed is more dangerous than alcohol.

If an 18yo binge drinks every night, but doesnt jump in a car etc (which is just as dangerous on weed), he WILL sober up and recover and if he stops this behaviour when he is 26, he will totally recover with no life altering damages. No matter how much that 18yo drinks, at that age, he will not develop psychosis or schizophrenia.

An 18yo consuming THC at normal current concentrations regularly has more than double the chance of a non THC smoker of developing psychosis and/or schizophrenia.....lifelong. You are not sobering up out of that.

If / when pot Is legalized and then it’s is socially acceptable like booze AND the high level THC is consumed at levels you see people drink then, at that point your statement could be taken seriously.

Why would it only be taken seriously then? Why would it be more dangerous for an individual when its legal than when its not?

Again, this is not my opinion, its the opinion of the Associate Professor of Neurobiology at Stanford, its peer reviewed meta analysis in Lancet, numerous source peer reviewed publications......but Im sure they dont know as much as some loon on a football forum.

 

[Tucker]

you would struggle to make it anything else.



Because its true. Not because I say its true but because a large number of peer reviewed studies, a meta analysis published by the Lancet, and the associate professor of neurobiology at Stanford University says its true. Your sources?

Bullshit. What was the "specific level" of THC in all of those studies? "Tedious references"? The Lancet? Associate professor of Neurology at Stanford? Canadian Association of Neurology? Tedious references? What are your sources?

I have posted peer reviewed scientific research saying it is true. What is your source that it is untrue? Because you dont like the message or the messenger?


You are making the mistake of looking at the problem at a community level, not an individual level. Alcohol is a much bigger problem in Australian society that weed, but thats not what I said. Weed is more dangerous, for an INDIVIDUAL that is under the age of 25 than alcohol is. Its a simple, scientifically proven fact. Yes more 24 year olds are harmed by alcohol than weed but that is at a society scale and taking into account car accidents etc but on an individual basis, weed is more dangerous than alcohol.

If an 18yo binge drinks every night, but doesnt jump in a car etc (which is just as dangerous on weed), he WILL sober up and recover and if he stops this behaviour when he is 26, he will totally recover with no life altering damages. No matter how much that 18yo drinks, at that age, he will not develop psychosis or schizophrenia.

An 18yo consuming THC at normal current concentrations regularly has more than double the chance of a non THC smoker of developing psychosis and/or schizophrenia.....lifelong. You are not sobering up out of that.



Why would it only be taken seriously then? Why would it be more dangerous for an individual when its legal than when its not?

Again, this is not my opinion, its the opinion of the Associate Professor of Neurobiology at Stanford, its peer reviewed meta analysis in Lancet, numerous source peer reviewed publications......but Im sure they dont know as much as some loon on a football forum.

That was a complete and utter destruction of his reply.

 

[Buttface]

On this planet, right here right now, pot is more dangerous to people under 25 than alcohol by a long way. Responsible for majority of youth schizophrenia and bpd. More than doubles the chances of schizophrenia or psychosis.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00161-4/abstract

right now, pot is more dangerous to people under 25 than alcohol by a long way.
I was just wondering, hang on I still haven’t finished laughing. Ok I’m back.
I was just wondering how far “a long way” is and what unit of measure you are using?

 

[Buttface]

But anyway, I don't believe it
I think it's a bunch of bullshit, myself
But I tell you this, man, I tell you this
I don't know what's gonna happen, man, but I wanna have
my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames
Alright!
Jim.

 

[crazycat]

Its disingenuous to post a cheery picked article that does not compare with the point one was expressing in the original post.

I love how the word Disingeuous is in reply to:" The Fresh oil:
Hmmm dunno bout that. Plenty of young fellas messing up their life every weekend under the influence of a jimmy and coke.

Both shit but saying pot is more dangerous to a certain age group seems disingenuous."

Winston is pretty much right here.... It's Cherry picking? (cheery' Cherry picking)..

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

There are a bunch of Peer reviewed articles that disagree with the peer reviewed article quoted. There are also some that agree... but by far the view "Both shit..." kinda sums it up. ... That said, Pot can lead people down a personal Centerlink hole... Maybe Schitzrophenia... Alcahol can lead to people Driving like Michael Shoemacker into a group of school kids.

Ill argue Alcahol is a worse habit, due to drunk driving and drunk fighting.

MistyMuzzle what you have stumbled into is actual debate with hard facts and real evidence. Your article is solid, so are a bunch of others as above. Congrats the world is complex.