Stefano Utoikamanu #241

I get the anxiety to solve this issue, but what if a player simply wants to move back home to be with family and they are prepared to take less for intangible benefits. It happens all the time.

I don't think you can mandate clubs pay a "market value", however you try and calculate it. How do you even value the dispensations you mention. How much is a geographic disadvantage worth? One players location disadvantage is anothers home.

The salary cap as it stands works for money motivated players. That is, players chasing coin or longer contracts will move clubs. Api and Luai are examples of that.

Where the salary cap doesn't work is with players that are loyal to clubs for reasons other than money. Is that such a bad thing? We are going to need some of these players in the long run. I'd hate to think a player that is happy to stay with us for less is forced to move to another club based on these subjective market values.
Agree
Wouldn’t it be another fight in the courts again.
Was it Dennis Tutty who fought the draft and won because he didn’t want to move to a location (different team)
A player should have the right to play for whoever he chooses
It’s up to the NRL to police the salary cap.
 
Agree
Wouldn’t it be another fight in the courts again.
Was it Dennis Tutty who fought the draft and won because he didn’t want to move to a location (different team)
A player should have the right to play for whoever he chooses
It’s up to the NRL to police the salary cap.
Terry Hill fought the draft and won,Tutty fought something that was even more restrictive in regards to being not allowed to play at another club and won (that would have been late 60's early 70's from memory).Every footballer since then owed Tutty big time for his guts in fighting unfairness
 
You can't tell players to sign with certain clubs. It's a restraint of trade and it's been tried and tested.

Even having dispensations for juniors would mean Penrith could have kept their side together for more years. Turuva, for example, probably wouldn't have had to leave and it just means we would have had to pay more money than we did, further disadvantaging a struggling club.

I don't think the system is perfect, but it's easy to pick apart where some of these salary cap adjustments would just exacerbate the problem or create too much subjectivity.

If we were going to tinker with the cap, the only thing I would even consider is giving the team that comes last an extra, say 2 million in the cap for 2 or 3 years to help them lure players. Even that has whiskers, for example tanking allegations and then having a massive cap issue at the end of those 2 or 3 years, but it's simple enough for people to wrap their head around without being subjective. 2 mill can buy 2 to 3 marquee players and it theoretically should move the dial for a struggling club.

For a team like ours, we could have used that to fill gaps in the team with decent players until our juniors were first grade ready and replace the high value contracts with normalised contracts for the juniors.

All sounds good in theory, but it's probably got a million holes people can poke in that system too.

To me, having a team running around with big cap dispensations or higher cap limits doesn't sit right and a win would always be judged based on having a higher cap. It would feel hollow and imo doesn't incentivise getting better in all aspects of club management.
All good. I’m certainly not trying to change your mind. It’s up to the tigers to improve. Hopefully Richo gets Ute over the line for less than market value because he wants to play for us 😜
 
Watching the Roosters young middles last week I don’t know why they would be bothered about Stefano
Plenty of talent there already in their forwards it’s their backs they will be spending on.
Imagine Walker will start to go to another level soon

Think he could d be the best player in the NRL in 18 months time
 
You can't tell players to sign with certain clubs. It's a restraint of trade and it's been tried and tested.

Even having dispensations for juniors would mean Penrith could have kept their side together for more years. Turuva, for example, probably wouldn't have had to leave and it just means we would have had to pay more money than we did, further disadvantaging a struggling club.

I don't think the system is perfect, but it's easy to pick apart where some of these salary cap adjustments would just exacerbate the problem or create too much subjectivity.

If we were going to tinker with the cap, the only thing I would even consider is giving the team that comes last an extra, say 2 million in the cap for 2 or 3 years to help them lure players. Even that has whiskers, for example tanking allegations and then having a massive cap issue at the end of those 2 or 3 years, but it's simple enough for people to wrap their head around without being subjective. 2 mill can buy 2 to 3 marquee players and it theoretically should move the dial for a struggling club.

For a team like ours, we could have used that to fill gaps in the team with decent players until our juniors were first grade ready and replace the high value contracts with normalised contracts for the juniors.

All sounds good in theory, but it's probably got a million holes people can poke in that system too.

To me, having a team running around with big cap dispensations or higher cap limits doesn't sit right and a win would always be judged based on having a higher cap. It would feel hollow and imo doesn't incentivise getting better in all aspects of club management.
Who said anything about making players sign with clubs?
They can sign with whoever they want but the club will use whatever the highest contract offered was off their salary cap.
As I understand it the NRL already has some sort of valuation system that they apply. It would just be an upgrade on that.
 
Who said anything about making players sign with clubs?
They can sign with whoever they want but the club will use whatever the highest contract offered was off their salary cap.
As I understand it the NRL already has some sort of valuation system that they apply. It would just be an upgrade on that.
You're assuming the club has the cap space to offer the highest contract offer.
 
Id be embarrassed if I was Stef and implemented that clause based on current form. Who does he think he is kidding? If there is one position you can stand out in as a player in a poor side it's as a prop - if he doesn't get selected it's because his form doesnt warrant it.
For that reason I be shocked as hell if he re -signs.
 
That's their problem, just like cap management is their problem as it sits.
Your point was that no one is making players sign with other clubs.

I said by having a market value, a player willing to move to or stay with a club for less would be forced to move if the cap space wasn't there.

So you have a club and player willing to do a deal for less, yet the NRL would step in under your system and deny it. This is effectively forcing the player to go with the highest bidder.
 
Your point was that no one is making players sign with other clubs.

I said by having a market value, a player willing to move to or stay with a club for less would be forced to move if the cap space wasn't there.

So you have a club and player willing to do a deal for less, yet the NRL would step in under your system and deny it. This is effectively forcing the player to go with the highest bidder.
Once again that's the club's problem to manage their cap to fit them in. The player's free to sign with Mars United if they want.
I know you want there to be some sort of restraint of trade involved, but there really isn't. the onus would be on the club to manage their cap just as it is now.
They can go to the lowest bidder if they want, but that club would be responsible for fitting the market value into their cap, just as it's supposed to be now.
I
 
Let me give you another situation. Say the NRL valued a player at 800k. The offer by a club was only 600k. So a club is forced to pay 200k extra.

Now, that same player plays ok for the first year, but drops in form or is seriously Injured and is not the same player they used to be.

Clubs wants to offload him...what now? Not only have you forced a club to pay 200k more than they were willing to, the player has dropped even further in value...you will cripple clubs.

People only look at the players that play for less...far more players are on salaries over their performances. Our club was full of them at various stages.
Imo it's so good to read respectful and sensible posts between Yourself 🙂 and @TheKhan 🙂, instead of stuff like ...'you're up yourself mate' or ' what a load of 💩 ....... Edit, I should have added..."from some other posters."
 
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Once again that's the club's problem to manage their cap to fit them in. The player's free to sign with Mars United if they want.
I know you want there to be some sort of restraint of trade involved, but there really isn't. the onus would be on the club to manage their cap just as it is now.
They can go to the lowest bidder if they want, but that club would be responsible for fitting the market value into their cap, just as it's supposed to be now.
I
We offered Latrell 1.2 million. Moses was offered 1.4 million. Are you saying Souths and Parra have these amounts deducted from their cap despite paying them less?

If it actually worked like that now, why are people pushing for a market value system if it already exists?
 
We now have a class 1/2 and a good prospect in Galvin , a good centre, a class winger and a up and comer at fullback , but our forwards seem to be going south , we will only have KLEMMER , twal , api , samual and pole left for next year , the rest are not worth writing down , so unless we can keep stepho and Bateman , we will need at lease 4 forwards all class players or nothing will change
 
We now have a class 1/2 and a good prospect in Galvin , a good centre, a class winger and a up and comer at fullback , but our forwards seem to be going south , we will only have KLEMMER , twal , api , samual and pole left for next year , the rest are not worth writing down , so unless we can keep stepho and Bateman , we will need at lease 4 forwards all class players or nothing will change

Im sure Richo has a plan …
 

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