No accountability
Stefano Utoikamanu #241
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BAGNF05
Well-known member
Yeah ask Api.
Api - was he going to upstage the Rabbitohs SOO hooker in the prime of his career?
Luai - has appeared in 4, and won 3 grand finals for Penrith. Lol, did they not get enough value already?
Staines - the “Forbes Ferrari”? Enough said.
Adam Doueihi - did Souths really miss him? He’s spent half his time on the sideline for us.
Point being is that if we lose a player we’ve nurtured, rather than it being a small blight, it seems to leave a critical hole in our team that we can’t soon make up for.
Mistymuzzle
Well-known member
Did Souths develop him and the heavy lifting to get him into first grade? Did Manly then improve him before sending him to Penrith?
Did Penrith develop him as a junior and then throughout those premierships? Is he not in the prime of his career?
Did Penrith not bring him from the country to the city, put him up in accommodation, pay for his education, develop him all the way through juniors development into a first grader winning a premiership? Sounds like heavy lifting to me?
Did Souths develop him through juniors into first grade? More heavy lifting than we ever did with Stefano.
That is not the point that Furious made or that I was responding to.....Furious was desponant because Stef is the "latest" that we do all the "heavy lifting" developing a player only for someone else to sign them. Stef played 2.....count them, 1.....2 lower grade games for us and has been in first grade since. Hardly "heavy lifting".
All of those players I listed, were developed by other clubs through juniors and into first grade....the "heavy lifting" if you like adn then we get the best of them in their prime, maybe with the exception of Api who was great at Penrith but Id suggest he has been as good here.
Tigers are on the right side of the ledger regarding the "heavy lifting" of our squad.
Tucker
Well-known member
More so than your good self? Lol
It tells me he’s not all that confident in too many of our current players ability and you can’t blame him for that.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
Probably more so that we’re in an obvious rebuild and he’s entering his prime years. His best opportunity to play rep footy and win trophies. Even if the kids coming through are talented, they’re 2-3-4 years away from their best days.
Tucker
Well-known member
He is one of the main problems and provides a lot of the football that results in our team struggling to win.
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Tiger-ferret
Well-known member
I’ve never understood it. Too many variables outside the sphere of influence…
He could be going great and in form, but still not get picked for origin.
He can also tank to intentionally not get picked so he can leave the club.
if the manager requested this clause then he was never going to stay long term.
I would define “heavy lifting” in this context as nurturing a player with the view to having them become a prominent part of your team.
In your examples, most of these players either already achieved that at their respective clubs for a period of time, or weren’t required as they already had better or similar options in those positions.
And whether Stefano was playing in reserve grade or not, he was young when he joined the club and very much still learning his craft. While he isn’t in his prime, he has now starting to make an impact for us, and has shown strong potential as a great prop.
So we invested early in his potential, worked with him to learn his craft and waited for 3 or so years for him to unleash his potential for our team. And right on the cusp of this occurring, another club signs him? I would call that heavy lifting.
This is not comparable to your list of players.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
Club management accepted the stupid clause because they were desperate for positive media.
From his perspective, he didn’t want to hang around if we weren’t winning and his ability wasn’t being recognised, pretty simple really.
Mistymuzzle
Well-known member
So.....you are agreeing with me. ALL of those players were developed by their club to the point that they were established first graders. I notice you havent mentioned Luai, Turuva, Fainu?
Despite the fact that Parra carried him all the way through lower grades and debuted him (he was a rookie at Parra), I dont disagree with you too much.............so one player?
Correct it is not comparable to compare ONE player who were developed through juniors to first grade by another club and then improved in first grade here........to have a first grade squad that were developed to their prime by someone else and then signed by the Wests Tigers.
To be blunt its a gutless victim mentality that is not backed up by statistics or reality. If you feel better and get through life better thinking the world is against us based on ....you know......feelings and that gets you through the day. You do you. Its not reality and truth is always the way forward.
Tiger_Yoshi
Well-known member
So we have tabled him a $4m offer and he’s knocked it back…seriously under what scenario does he accept an offer to stay?…gooodbyyeeee
Yes, “developed”. But that is different to doing the “heavy lifting”.
Would you say that we did the heavy lifting for Simpkin and Liddle? No, because who cares, we didn’t need them and they were no longer part of our plans. Neither of them had established themselves as crucial members of the team either.
Fainu is maybe the only one who qualifies. I don’t know if Manly had him in their plans, but he’s turned out to be a fine player so far. Maybe Turuva, but you’d have to think Penrith, being the powerhouse that they are have a ready replacement.
As I mentioned, Luai has had a career at Penrith. They developed him, but have also already reaped the rewards.
And I’m not saying this doesn’t happen to other clubs, and woe is Wests Tigers.. Just that in this case, yes we did the heavy lifting - invested time and money into a player with no return on investment.
innsaneink
Well-known member
Jesus mate... Settle down a bit.
This is the new now... Not even all that new really... Best get used to it.
It's a business and every time they cross the sideline could be their last.. Career ending injuries do exist but thankfully pretty rare these days
Hold your horses it's not done until bits official.
Appearing, seeming to or looking like something may go one way can sometimes go the other
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innsaneink
Well-known member
Yeah I don't like it one bit.
I don't think. It s right that one person can determine sections of a contract clause... Leaves room for shifty shenanigans and we don't want they in the game eh
liltiger
Well-known member
He got stitched up this year, he's been enormous for us well deserved to be in the team, no chance of making it now after the win on Wednesday night, I thought Maguire was professional enough to pick the best players based on form but now I think I was wrong. I believe he had an axe to grind with the Tigers and Api suffered as a result. Iv lost a lot of respect I had for Maguire.
liltiger
Well-known member
Yeah if I'm running the joint and need to insert all these clauses then I'd be worrying his hearts just not into it.
watersider
Well-known member
Yeah, a terrible contract.
As someone who wanted to leave he HAD to play badly to avoid making origin. And as soon as he's not going to make origin and needs to play well to earn a contract, his form lifts.
From a players perspective, his value would have gone up as his team won more and he received more accolades while also locking him further into a contract that values him lower. Completely demotivating financially. Makes zero sense.
I'm not saying that is the entirety of his reasons for his form this year, but it very well could be.
He looked like the player he promised to be at the start of the year, and then just more mediocrity until out of his shell again in the last two weeks.
This contract highlights how incompetent our management was, how they directly contributed to poor performances from our players and shows they had no idea what they were doing.
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Is also dependant on us playing finals football as well yeah?
Given the extension was signed some time back - my guess is the higher ups assumed (like the rest of us) By signing the likes of Bateman, Klemmer and papalli were a good chance of playing finals before now…
