Stefano Utoikamanu #241

[BAGNF05]

I've read many of the posts here, but not all. Obviously there are some on this forum supporting Steff and others who want him gone. That's all good - it's what a forum is.
FWIW, I think Steff has above average ability and can be a damaging front rower on his day. But 'his day' is never against the big packs with tough front rowers. If he was ever going to be 'our Payne Hass', he should have be salivating at the thought of taking on Lenui, Collins and JWH and showing that he belongs in that company.
He didn't. He did nothing to show he's their equal. A fair dinkum, elite, tough front rower would have taken these guys on - got crunched, picked himself up and gone at them again and again and again. That's when you earn respect. That's when you show you are worth the big bucks. It's the stuff that JWH has been doing for a decade. It's the stuff that Beetson, Donelly, Roach and Webcke did for a decade in their era.
Of course he's not responsible for the performance of the team as a whole, but he is for his own performance.
And 54 metres in a game is pathetic.

You’re forgetting it’s a forward ‘pack’ though.

Have a think about the environment the greats, the Webcke’s and Haas’ play/ed in. Their packs were always extremely dominant. They have origin and international players everywhere.

To be clear Stef isn’t in their class. He may never be.

But running metres stats really aren’t comparable when your team is getting their pants pulled down all over the shop.

Stef’s value will be determined by the market, 800-900K seems about right based on his career trajectory in my opinion.

Edit: I think even Payne Haas collected a wooden spoon in a poo side.

 

[RonDingo]

9 runs for 54 metres, so 6 metres average per run.
So if Stef values himself at 1 million per season does that mean at 40k per game his runs are worth $4,444 each or his tackles are worth $1,176 each?

 

[batboy]

Why would you want Stef when you have May?

They have 2 Top Line Props in Collins and Leniu,
May is next on the list....

I Don't see them adding Stefano with those 3 already there...

 

[BAGNF05]

They have 2 Top Line Props in Collins and Leniu,
May is next on the list....

I Don't see them adding Stefano with those 3 already there...

They have JWH plus the aforementioned players. Why not?

 

[yeti]

You’re forgetting it’s a forward ‘pack’ though.

Have a think about the environment the greats, the Webcke’s and Haas’ play/ed in. Their packs were always extremely dominant. They have origin and international players everywhere.

To be clear Stef isn’t in their class. He may never be.

But running metres stats really aren’t comparable when your team is getting their pants pulled down all over the shop.

Stef’s value will be determined by the market, 800-900K seems about right based on his career trajectory in my opinion.

Edit: I think even Payne Haas collected a wooden spoon in a poo side.

I concede your point re the quality of the rest of the pack - and I didn't forget about that. It should, however, make zero difference to his output if he's playing in the best pack in the comp or for the WestsTigers.

He will never be 'top dog' in the ranks of front rowers until his mindset changes and performs regardless of team mates or opposition. He may be exactly what the Storm want because they already have leaders and a great team around him - and perhaps that is what Stef needs to perform at his best.

But it's not what our team needs. We need mongrel middles who will fire up regardless. We need the ''follow me boys" type of players. I'm not sure where we find them - perhaps guys like Hunt would fit the bill.
I wasn't sure until yesterday whether we should break the bank to keep him. I now firmly believe we should not.

 

[guywolf]

Pathetic performance really, really cements the idea that he's not worth $800k.

I thought maybe he had turned a corner after the previous couple of weeks, but he continually demonstrates that he goes missing the moment the team goes through some adversity.

Again it's completely laughable that he sees himself as a leader.

 

[tig_prmz]

Everyone wants to go to a team that is already winning instead of taking charge of a losing team.

 

[BAGNF05]

I concede your point re the quality of the rest of the pack - and I didn't forget about that. It should, however, make zero difference to his output if he's playing in the best pack in the comp or for the WestsTigers.

He will never be 'top dog' in the ranks of front rowers until his mindset changes and performs regardless of team mates or opposition. He may be exactly what the Storm want because they already have leaders and a great team around him - and perhaps that is what Stef needs to perform at his best.

But it's not what our team needs. We need mongrel middles who will fire up regardless. We need the ''follow me boys" type of players. I'm not sure where we find them - perhaps guys like Hunt would fit the bill.
I wasn't sure until yesterday whether we should break the bank to keep him. I now firmly believe we should not.

But the situation of the game makes a massive difference around how you attack. Down 20 nil you totally abandon the arm wrestle.

E.g. Jake Turbo is a gun and origin captain but in origin one his skill set was deemed useless which is similar to what happens to Stef when you go down 20 nil to the Roosters early.

 

[hank37w]

Nick very close to v landys.. born same tiny Greek island.who .ridiculously excluded bunnies from Alliancz stadium built by taxpayers
Schubert ex East's,and wldnt know a breach if he fell over it
Something stinks in Bondi,and it ain't just the sewer

That was Stef shitting himself.

 

[tig_prmz]

Let me get this right.

Stef is contracted til 2026, but 2025 and 2026, there is a clause that it is only based on Stef playing 2 origins or us making the finals.

Obviously that's not happening, so by Richo giving him the permission to look around, isn't that just part of the contract anyway? Or is the clause only based on 2026 in which case he won't be allowed to look around til Nov 1 this year?

 

[Tom Shines]

Let me get this right.

Stef is contracted til 2026, but 2025 and 2026, there is a clause that it is only based on Stef playing 2 origins or us making the finals.

Obviously that's not happening, so by Richo giving him the permission to look around, isn't that just part of the contract anyway? Or is the clause only based on 2026 in which case he won't be allowed to look around til Nov 1 this year?

The clause hasn’t officially even triggered yet …as mathematically they have not been eliminated from finals contention…

However ..as the Tigers want some certainty over the future , they have agreed to his request to go to the market for 2025 and beyond

 

[tig_prmz]

The clause hasn’t officially even triggered yet …as mathematically they have not been eliminated from finals contention…

However ..as the Tigers want some certainty over the future , they have agreed to his request to go to the market for 2025 and beyond

Is the clause for 2025 and 2026 or just 2026? I always thought it was for 2026 only?

 

[Tom Shines]

Is the clause for 2025 and 2026 or just 2026? I always thought it was for 2026 only?

What would make you think that?

We gunna go through all this BS and if he is gunna front up next year at the WT ?

 

[watersider]

We need a prop who is fanatical about line speed, who takes the brutal hit-ups fearlessly, even when getting belted, who turns and pulls the forwards in and directs them and points at them and shows them what he wants, someone who has pride in participating in the physical contest. I suppose it would be something equivalent to Olam's work in the centres. You wish Bateman was that sort of presence for our forwards but he is so often making errors and conceding penalties and is painfully ineffective that he can't really be that player for us. We should pay premium dollars for this prop. It's presumably what we wanted from Klemmer and Tamou, neither of whom cared enough to play with intensity.

Stefano has been here this whole time and has never been this prop. He is a role player and we shouldn't expect more from him. The contract size and length is far too much and I suspect it relates more to marketing than to his output on the field.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

Let me get this right.

Stef is contracted til 2026, but 2025 and 2026, there is a clause that it is only based on Stef playing 2 origins or us making the finals.

Obviously that's not happening, so by Richo giving him the permission to look around, isn't that just part of the contract anyway? Or is the clause only based on 2026 in which case he won't be allowed to look around til Nov 1 this year?

No clause is triggered until the 1st week of finals are played.
If we made the finals then he plays with us next season. If we don’t play finals, this season could be his last if he wants out.

The club are doing this to make a decision as to if we should go after another player for next season & to understand our cap space as to if Stefano is at the club or not.

The previous admin were bonkers for agreeing to the contract terms in the 1st place. Such a messed up situation for all parties to be in.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

PLODDER!

 

[Tom Shines]

We need a prop who is fanatical about line speed, who takes the brutal hit-ups fearlessly, even when getting belted, who turns and pulls the forwards in and directs them and points at them and shows them what he wants, someone who has pride in participating in the physical contest. I suppose it would be something equivalent to Olam's work in the centres. You wish Bateman was that sort of presence for our forwards but he is so often making errors and conceding penalties and is painfully ineffective that he can't really be that player for us. We should pay premium dollars for this prop. It's presumably what we wanted from Klemmer and Tamou, neither of whom cared enough to play with intensity.

Stefano has been here this whole time and has never been this prop. He is a role player and we shouldn't expect more from him. The contract size and length is far too much and I suspect it relates more to marketing than to his output on the field.

We certainly need that prop…. Two even …

Where do we get them?

 

[GCfan]

I’m not saying you are wrong … but why do so many other clubs want him ?

Insert coach name here will get Stefano playing his best football.

 

[batboy]

They have JWH plus the aforementioned players. Why not?

2 Reasons....
They won't have that much cash for him, Even now - I'm pretty sure JWH is on a shade less than 800k atm - And he's played a year or 2 longer than they intended him too as it is
and they're not stupid to pay Stef a mill a year.

 

[Tom Shines]

Insert coach name here will get Stefano playing his best football.

if Siebold can make Tommy Talau a first grader … any coach will get Stef playing to his best