Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[BlackWhiteGold]

Another observation- our kick chase & our kickers.

The Knights kick returners were able to run a good 20m at times over the weekend because one of two things, or both, is happening-

We either are the most lethargic kick chase team in the NRL, or..

Our kickers do not hang the ball high enough to give guys time to apply decent chase.

The absolute opposite happened in return- with Knights players within a metre of Tigers ball catchers on nearly every kick.

It's little things like this that start your set of 6 positively or negatively. And we are negative more often than not, and they are positive more often than not.

Yep bit of both. The only match I've seen our kick chase work well was against the Raiders.

The coaches really need to drum into our players ... CHASE FAST, CHASE HARD, CHASE TOGETHER, EFFORT ON EFFORT ON EFFORT!

I hope they are smashed in the pre-season to determine the strong from the weak, the fit from the lazy!

 

[Kelce68]

Ok laugh this then
Lane 6.6 and 110 kg

Fainu 6.4 and 109 kg

I will take ur apology 😳

That's got nothing to do with their build or distribution of mass.

Lane is tall, slender-shouldered, relatively thick through the mid section and hips, given his height. He is quite long-limbed, but pulls in tight in contact and relies on his hip strength and lower centre of mass to break tackles.

He also has a mature structure, being nearly 30.

Samuela is shorter, by 4cm, more broader-shouldered, being more in proportion throughout his entire body. He is more balanced in terms of tackle breaking ability, using both upper body strength and hip drive to break tackles.

Samuela is also 20 years old, meaning that not only structurally, but lean-mass wise, he has yet to 'fill out'.

Height and weight are just one, small component of bodily structure and weight distribution.

 

[The Chad]

Dummy half runs from kick returns. I've noticed we nearly always look for 1 pass off the ground runs instead of direct dummy half running on kick returns.

The same is not the case in return.

Charlie Staines benefits zero from running it off the fence (not that he does- he starts from standing still WAY too often as does Faataape).

What benefit is there to quick dummy half runs? It has the defence on the backfoot SO LONG AS THEY ARE EFFECTIVE.

Turuva is actually very good at taking the ball from dummy half & running. So is Doueihi. If the club doesn't want to/can't talk him into playing wing (Doueihi) then I think it's vital they find a good dummy half running type winger in the off season. Luke Lualili'i shows a little of it- but I would love him to work his way into the team next year instead of being handed the job.

Fast excelleration with a bit of power/agility & a nose for gaps to run at.

I think the difference in our play would be remarkable.

 

[Tucker]

Another observation- our kick chase & our kickers.

The Knights kick returners were able to run a good 20m at times over the weekend because one of two things, or both, is happening-

We either are the most lethargic kick chase team in the NRL, or..

Our kickers do not hang the ball high enough to give guys time to apply decent chase.

The absolute opposite happened in return- with Knights players within a metre of Tigers ball catchers on nearly every kick.

It's little things like this that start your set of 6 positively or negatively. And we are negative more often than not, and they are positive more often than not.

The only bomb we put high on the weekend resulted in a try. Its the only kick we could properly contest.

 

[851]

With all this talk of RCG, it seems about the right time for a friendly reminder. No player this club has ever signed, north of 30 has been a success.

Api was 30 when he turned up for his first season with us, turned 31 in his first year here, yet you don't rate him as a successful signing.
You just have to sign the right ones, and we are no destination club, we have to look at these types of short term signings while our good juniors develop.

 

[The Chad]

Yep bit of both. The only match I've seen our kick chase work well was against the Raiders.

The coaches really need to drum into our players ... CHASE FAST, CHASE HARD, CHASE TOGETHER, EFFORT ON EFFORT ON EFFORT!

I hope they are smashed in the pre-season to determine the strong from the weak, the fit from the lazy!

I don't like suggesting KPI's, but I would think, with greater depth, a selection KPI would be the effort used in kick chase situations. We have to build momentum on the field.

If we can build a squad that has respectable replacement options & not a gulf between starter & back-up, then effort areas can be used for selection purposes. As an example- I'm sure Lobb would probably be a big effort guy. Unfortunately, his ability means that you'd probably rather stick with Alaimalo at this point. Too big a gulf between starter quality & back-up quality to let effort area's determine selections.

 

[jrtiger]

What about Kit ?
I know he’s considered a young leader, but has anyone seen him play one better than average game so far this season ?
As BlackWhiteGold alluded to, there is every chance that some of the young top 30 contracted players for 2025 that he listed will develop a bit slower than others and could end up being valuable NRL players a couple of years down the track, but Wests Tigers as a club has obviously panicked and promoted way too many of these up and comers iinto our top 30 before they are ready and before they had earned it.
If they were in Development Deals it would have allowed us to sign more genuine depth for our NRL team and would be less pressure on these young players to perform at a high standard before they are ready.

I doubt Kit is placed on the chopping block given he’s part of the 2022 Matts winning crew that has emerged in the last 12 months that includes his brother.

they’ll be reluctant to upset the apple cart there I feel from a culture perspective, even though I do agree that if we’re looking at pure footballing ability he’s behind Faagutu and Matamua.

you’re right about us throwing development deals to youngsters though, no doubt about it. Sheens and McDonnell destroyed our playing roster.

 

[Tito Santana]

Ok laugh this then
Lane 6.6 and 110 kg

Fainu 6.4 and 109 kg

I will take ur apology 😳

Sam is way more explosive than Lane. Imagine if Manly held on to Sam. Him on one side, Hamoule on the other - wow!

Lane is lame in my opinion.

Size is good in league in the air - nothing more.

Hence why the Choad (before he came to us) was good.

 

[The Chad]

The only bomb we put high on the weekend resulted in a try. Its the only kick we could properly contest.

Agreed. I was going to reply to another thread you talked about Galvin's kicking vs Sezar's kicking.

Galvin finds the ground more often but seems to struggle with hang time in relation to his chasers. Then, he strikes gold like the Bula try. Sezar's kicks might find hands, but they tend to have better chase results, giving the returner less room.

Marzhew was catching the ball with zero Wests Tigers players on the TV frame. We gifted him 200m in kick returns & the Knights started nearly all their sets on their 30+

EVERY kick to a Tigers ball catcher had a Knights player closer than a Tigers team mate to the catcher.

I think Galvin has the ability to be a good kicker, but his kicks right now look mechanical & not thought out. He's definitely more an individual player at this point. I think Latu is better (from what I see) at bringing other players into the game. This, I think, is where I question what Galvin's best role actually is.

 

[The Chad]

I doubt Kit is placed on the chopping block given he’s part of the 2022 Matts winning crew that has emerged in the last 12 months that includes his brother.

they’ll be reluctant to upset the apple cart there I feel from a culture perspective, even though I do agree that if we’re looking at pure footballing ability he’s behind Faagutu and Matamua.

you’re right about us throwing development deals to youngsters though, no doubt about it. Sheens and McDonnell destroyed our playing roster.

I see Kit as more the (to use a current example) Jack Williams type player. A nuggety, strong worker. It wouldn't surprise me to see him eventually fit in at prop if required. Fa'agutu for mine is the best of the 3, and I wonder if he's been held back longer on purpose- not throwing him to the wolves too early. Matamua needs to show something soon. Not because he isn't talented. Far from it. But that "young lock forward role" position is going to be congested way too soon

 

[old_man_tiger]

Very entertaining few pages, for anyone looking for a summary...no signings.

 

[the enforcer.]

I hate to jump on the misery bandwagon here, but it's stating the obvious to suggest that our recent coaches have struggled to get the best out of players. And that those players have gone onto decent form elsewhere. In the past, few of our discards went on to great success after leaving us but since the start of the Pascoe reign and certainly into the Marshall era, we're seeing quality play elsewhere from players who couldn't produce for us or were not given the opportunity. We also see the reverse as promising or established players from other clubs do nothing when they come to us. Along with this we have senior players looking to leave, even for less money elsewhere.

It's not all doom and gloom (though it feels that way when all we do is lose) but Bula, Galvin, Pole, Porter, S Fainu, Sione Fainu, Seyfarth have all emerged or improved under current coaching, but it's hard no to doubt what is happening at the club when noting a player like Kepaoa's stats in lower grades and Talau's performances for Manly.

Certainly signing new players and cleaning out as much as possible is important, but our fundamental issue is addressing how we prepare and motivate our players so they can perform to their potential. We seem a long way off that.

Hey mate ,no just jumping on the Misery Bandwagon , get in the queue like the rest of us.

 

[426Tlgerland]

They’ve said they won’t. Considering he’s only signed for 25, they probably feel they don’t need to. And they are probably right.

Yep said no help but $ 200 k won’t happen but a friendly $ 50 k may be a chance , maybe , pends how much they want or need players gone

 

[Nonotmeagain]

Due to misinformation and agendas masquerading as opinions would be my guess - and I don't blame him at all!

Mods do a great job - but there is only so much you can do with the middle-aged chimps throwing shit just because they are butt-hurt and want success NOW!!!

Why are our egos so badly hurt by the results of a football team, why do we get aggressive when the results of that football team don't meet our expectations ?

 

[jrtiger]

I see Kit as more the (to use a current example) Jack Williams type player. A nuggety, strong worker. It wouldn't surprise me to see him eventually fit in at prop if required. Fa'agutu for mine is the best of the 3, and I wonder if he's been held back longer on purpose- not throwing him to the wolves too early. Matamua needs to show something soon. Not because he isn't talented. Far from it. But that "young lock forward role" position is going to be congested way too soon

agree with you on ability, but Faagutu has also played Cup a few times this year and struggled for a couple of reasons, mainly because he was underdone and had some issues with his lateral movement, which can be worked on.

again just looking at current pecking order and the need for roster spots, and with three rookie lock forwards someone’s going to be shown the door before November.

based on what I’ve seen I think Siotame Havea is still the long term pick, but he’s still probably five years away. I really hope someone takes the 13 jersey with both hands this preseason, but I can’t see it being Chris, Juz or Kit if I’m honest.

 

[The Chad]

Sam is way more explosive than Lane. Imagine if Manly held on to Sam. Him on one side, Hamoule on the other - wow!

Lane is lame in my opinion.

Size is good in league in the air - nothing more.

Hence why the Choad (before he came to us) was good.

I've never been a huge fan of Lane.

There are 3 back rowers I think could fit that are off contract.

Kleese Haas is probably going to be the most popular option- big, athletic & quite fast. I doubt the GC are going to be keen on watching him leave, but he fits the bill.

Corey Waddell is another from Manly. He's probably the most 'complete' option but I'm not overally excited by what he offers. As a bench player- I see benefit. As a back up? For sure.

My smokey is Kleese Haas' team mate- Jacob Alick. Stuck behind Fifita & Haas, he's pretty much a career reserve if Haas doesn't leave. Tall, athletic & only 24 years old. Good defensive numbers.

The club has Bateman, Seyfarth, Porter, Sukkar & a few other youngsters coming through. So Alick would not be a bad flier for that wide backrow option. If it doesn't work out? Shift Bateman back there & solidify the middle.

But I think, the way we seem to want to attack, that rangy fast wide forwards are going to be important.

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...34ACF8025D2B7EB6D2B534ACF8025D2B&&FORM=VRDGAR

 

[Vicious]

agree with you on ability, but Faagutu has also played Cup a few times this year and struggled for a couple of reasons, mainly because he was underdone and had some issues with his lateral movement, which can be worked on.

again just looking at current pecking order and the need for roster spots, and with three rookie lock forwards someone’s going to be shown the door before November.

based on what I’ve seen I think Siotame Havea is still the long term pick, but he’s still probably five years away. I really hope someone takes the 13 jersey with both hands this preseason, but I can’t see it being Chris, Juz or Kit if I’m honest.

All 3 of them have talent, but none of them appear to be near fit enough to play with high intensity as someone such as Jack Williams always does.
Anyone can get extremely fit if they really want to, let’s hope one of those 3 realise what an opportunity they have been given and transform themselves into a player that plays the game with high intensity.

 

[boonboon]

I see Kit as more the (to use a current example) Jack Williams type player. A nuggety, strong worker. It wouldn't surprise me to see him eventually fit in at prop if required. Fa'agutu for mine is the best of the 3, and I wonder if he's been held back longer on purpose- not throwing him to the wolves too early. Matamua needs to show something soon. Not because he isn't talented. Far from it. But that "young lock forward role" position is going to be congested way too soon

When next season starts Matamua will be 21, Kit will be 20 and Faagutu will be 21.

To me it's clear that Matamua has shown the most out of those 3 at this stage given he has played test and a decent amount of nrl.

Faagutu is the one to drop but obviously it depends on a lot of factors that none of us know

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Agreed. I was going to reply to another thread you talked about Galvin's kicking vs Sezar's kicking.

Galvin finds the ground more often but seems to struggle with hang time in relation to his chasers. Then, he strikes gold like the Bula try. Sezar's kicks might find hands, but they tend to have better chase results, giving the returner less room.

Marzhew was catching the ball with zero Wests Tigers players on the TV frame. We gifted him 200m in kick returns & the Knights started nearly all their sets on their 30+

EVERY kick to a Tigers ball catcher had a Knights player closer than a Tigers team mate to the catcher.

I think Galvin has the ability to be a good kicker, but his kicks right now look mechanical & not thought out. He's definitely more an individual player at this point. I think Latu is better (from what I see) at bringing other players into the game. This, I think, is where I question what Galvin's best role actually is.

You'll enjoy this article about which teams are good & poor at defending kick returns:

https://www.rugbyleagueeyetest.com/2024/07/22/the-best-nrl-teams-at-defending-kick-returns/

A couple of excerpts ...

At the bottom end of this scale, there are five teams who average fewer than 30 net metres per kick this season when chasing yardage. They are the Titans, Raiders, Tigers, Dragons and Sharks. Distance isn’t the issue here, with all five averaging at least 39 metres per kick and three of them averaging 40 metres per kick. It’s the chase that lets them down, with four teams allowing at least 10 metres per kick return, with the Sharks allowing an NRL worst at 11.3 per attempt.

Isaiya Katoa’s kicks are only returned 7.6 metres, with Jarome Luai’s 7.8 the only other mark below eight metres per return. For Katoa to be this good at pinpointing his kicks and giving his defense the best chance to contain a return at just 20 years old should make Dolphins fans very excited to see how he progresses from here. Tigers fans should be similarly pumped about Luai’s long kicking game for next season after watching their yardage kicks this year.

 

[The Chad]

agree with you on ability, but Faagutu has also played Cup a few times this year and struggled for a couple of reasons, mainly because he was underdone and had some issues with his lateral movement, which can be worked on.

again just looking at current pecking order and the need for roster spots, and with three rookie lock forwards someone’s going to be shown the door before November.

based on what I’ve seen I think Siotame Havea is still the long term pick, but he’s still probably five years away. I really hope someone takes the 13 jersey with both hands this preseason, but I can’t see it being Chris, Juz or Kit if I’m honest.

Don't disagree with that. It's for that reason I think Matamua might be in some trouble. Additionally- he'd be a really easy player to move as I'm sure other clubs would have a low Top 30 position for a promising player to fit.

That said- he's also just as likely to be that additional attacking weapon we don't have.

If one of the three does not stand up to be the starting #13 next season, they might need to investigate other roles (backrow/prop) or their importance on the roster is going to diminish.

At this stage- one needs to grab #13 or the club needs to add a #13, making the chances of all 3 sticking even worse.

For whatever happens- with so many talented players coming through- we will lose some. That's just how it goes.