Taking a wrecking ball to the club! (Recent Media Reports)

[Pascoes_barber]

I’ve just wasted my time flicking through this thread only to be reminded why I take long spells away from this place. Why do posters feel the need to constantly antagonise, berate and manipulate the words of others? We all allegedly support the same team.

Seems to mostly be older Magpies fans stoking the division? 🤔

 

[balmain boy]

Thing is we can't generalise.

HBG are very successful and growing. Burgess and Romero are part of that board......whether they are appropriate for the WT is another matter.

But Burgess is one board member. His tenure included Barry previously. Also David Gilbert, Rick Wayde, Joe Cool Marina Go etc.

Thing to, is nearly all the recruits bar May and Bird were initiated by the previous board and CEO.

Rick Wayde and John Dorahy are seasoned administrators......they were connected to Barnier and Richardson. They're no fools.

Richardson is doubling down on the process......albeit with professionalism and tact with player management.....the leaks have died down. Although the Luai clauses are not a special negotiation from our point of view.....just solid.

But the board is deficit David Gilbert, John Dorahy and Rick Wayde. This process has incurred casualties. Given Barry is one of the independents and was previously chair it's hard for me to see what the 3 new independents will have to offer above Gilbert, Dorahy and Wayde.

Dorahy was an independent obviously.

But that isn't to say that I'm against separation of powers from the HBG and WT board.

HBG are successful? Hmm, not so sure about that. They have a club full of pokies that they get the local Asian residents to frequent. That's it, their one and only thing they've ever succeeded in. wests Ashfield is a crap hole, and the others clubs are a joke. Sure they make some profits by milking residents for all they can, great business model, shows true strategic insights.

Everything HBG have had to go with the NRL had been a spectacular failure, and they're involvement with the club had only dragged us further down. No benefit for WT to having HBG involved whatsoever. None..

You still haven't told us which board member you are. I'm thinking Montgomery? Cook? You can DM me if you don't want to publicly disclose.

First things first, we need Burgess and Monty off our board. And Stapleton. Then add 3 independents, then another 3.

Gilbert is the only remotely qualified person on the HBG board.

There is no need for anyone from Wests or Balmain on the WT board. There's really only one person from either club who's remotely qualified, and that's Wayne Pearce who's got his experience with the ARLC.

 

[balmain boy]

Here we go......can't answer again.

Your dreaming and deflecting.

Shane pushed for Barry as chairman.....

And some are pushing for Barry selecting the independents.

Are you okay with that process?

Well, yes.

So long as the external recruitment agency has run their process, shortlisted, had their interviews and shared their recommendations on whom the most suitable candidates are then yes, there's no one better at the club to make the final decision than Barry. A senior politician, who's had great responsibility and managed large groups of people with success.

Compared to the unqualified misfits from the HBG who have accomplished nothing, yes, they have no one capable of making good decisions. This has been evident for over a decade. None of them have earned their positions, they don't justify their performance and work tirelessly to enhance the performance of their club. They just fell into their roles by default and seemingly hadn't then took the day they die. What an embarrassing way to run an organisation

 

[BZN]

Are you happy with Burgess?

Gee, I'm sometimes not as quick as you at tracking down and reading posts.
Am I happy with Burgess?
I don't know the guy personally so it's pretty hard for me to judge just from stuff written on here which may be true and accurate, or it may be a lot of baloney put forward by people that don't want him as he is a Wests Magpies board member.
All I can say is that our board as a whole has done pretty well in acquiring the players we now have and landing Richo as our Ceo, even though I am a bit disappointed with him.
I sent him 2 emails and he didn't bother to reply, remembering that he did say he would talk to a MEMBER at any time, and I RENEWED my MEMBERSHIP during Oct for 2025.
I 'wonder' 🤔 if it was due to the fact I mentioned I was PREVIOUSLY a Wests MAGPIES fan, and maybe he has no respect for the Magpies, even though the Magpies own 90% of Wests Tigers.
And that's a fact, that some of you and in particular the very aggressive ones on here don't seem to recognise, have trouble admitting to, respect or take into consideration and seem very jealous of and threatened by.
And I'm being extremely honest when I say I would feel the same if I was in your position.

 

[cochise]

Gee, I'm sometimes not as quick as you at tracking down and reading posts.
Am I happy with Burgess?
I don't know the guy personally so it's pretty hard for me to judge just from stuff written on here which may be true and accurate, or it may be a lot of baloney put forward by people that don't want him as he is a Wests Magpies board member.
All I can say is that our board as a whole has done pretty well in acquiring the players we now have and landing Richo as our Ceo, even though I am a bit disappointed with him.
I sent him 2 emails and he didn't bother to reply, remembering that he did say he would talk to a MEMBER at any time, and I RENEWED my MEMBERSHIP during Oct for 2025.
I 'wonder' 🤔 if it was due to the fact I mentioned I was PREVIOUSLY a Wests MAGPIES fan, and maybe he has no respect for the Magpies, even though the Magpies own 90% of Wests Tigers.
And that's a fact, that some of you and in particular the very aggressive ones on here don't seem to recognise, have trouble admitting to, respect or take into consideration and seem very jealous of and threatened by.
And I'm being extremely honest when I say I would feel the same if I was in your position.

I have no issue with the current ownership setup as long as there is separation between the boards of the owners and the Wests Tigers, I have stated this many times in the past.

The previous board at the Wests Tigers was failing the club massively, the inability of the club to set and stick to a strategic direction was a major issue for the club.

You are very happy to have a crack at guy like Gary Barnier based of the few articles you have read about him but claim to not have enough information on a guy that has been a director of the HBG for 20 years and on the Wests Tigers Board throughout our decade of failure.

I actually thought you would hold Gary Barnier in much higher regard considering his history with the Magpies and everything he still does for the Magpies club.

Your disappointment with Richo is that he didn't reply to your emails? Maybe he was too busy signing Luai, Turuva, Hunt, Skelton, Bird and May, along with signing the biggest sponsorship deal in the club history and establishing strategic plan including a reengagement with the South West and a new Community arm of the club. Sounds like a pretty big 12 months to me.

 

[Snidest 0]

You know contacts were initiated previously with Luai and Turuva.

You know it.

Richardsons just iced it.

But progress was made before the governance changes.

Not to say that changes didn't need to happen.

It’s the process that's the problem.

Look at this toxic stuff here and from both parent clubs.

That's the problem.

And you have the gall to acuse other people of gaslighting!

Grow up you massive hypocrite!

If Richardson "just iced it" for Luai as you claim - how did Pascoe (with the support of Lee) go about icing all those other marquee deals with Moses - Latrell - Addo-Carr etc that they famously "initiated previously"...???

Zero progress was made before the FORCED governance changes! Stop lying!

The graceless and shambolic public response of the former Chairman Lee to his forced exit was symptomatic and symbolic of the lack of professionalism, accountability and self-awareness that still ruled at the time and made their roles completely untenable!

The historical dysfunction of the HBG Board evidently enabled an utterly incompentent CEO in Pascoe supported by an interfering prancing poodle of a Chairman in Lee to turn the joint into the laughing stock of the league with three consecutive wooden spoons to show for it... that is FACT!

You can try to revise that history all you like... but nobody with half a brain is buying it!

The only "toxic stuff" here are the outright lies - intentional obfuscation and deflections posted by you and your ilk to justify or deny ongoing dysfunction by certain HBG directors as long as they have a Magpies pin on their lapel!

 

[hank37w]

I've noticed references to the "18 debenture holders." Does anyone know who they are? Or why an outfit with the turnover of 3 licensed clubs would even need to issue debentures?

Someone must know but there are a lot of questions that arise from all of this and here are just a few that come to mind:

• How long ago were these debentures issued?
• Is there a maturity date or a time that these debentures cease to exist?
• Are they redeemable, eventually convert into shares, will they eventually be paid out in full or are they perpetual?
• Is there a regular payment or an interest rate that is being paid on these debentures?
• How is that payment or interest rate calculated?

Some how I doubt if we are ever likely to find out the answer to any of this.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

Pretty sure there are exactly zero folks here who want to see a return to Balmain Tigers.

Why do Balmain Tigers (or Western Suburbs Magpies) even still exist as entities? Completely unnecessary.

 

[Jux]

Someone must know but there are a lot of questions that arise from all of this and here are just a few that come to mind:

• How long ago were these debentures issued?
• Is there a maturity date or a time that these debentures cease to exist?
• Are they redeemable, eventually convert into shares, will they eventually be paid out in full or are they perpetual?
• Is there a regular payment or an interest rate that is being paid on these debentures?
• How is that payment or interest rate calculated?

Some how I doubt if we are ever likely to find out the answer to any of this.

Mate, it’s harder than getting a glimpse at Donald Trumps tax returns !
I fed your questions into my AI (which can always come up with some sort of an answer) and it showed me a duck egg !
Honestly, it’s one of life’s great mysteries 😖

 

[magpies forever]

I'll stick my head above the parapet this once in this volatile thread.

Im not happy with the shenanigans with the Board and its weakness in the set up exposed by this. Looks like the 'indenture' (?) membership and influence is just not working. Hopefully the new 3 x independents when they come in will be able to drive further change at the Board level. The imbalance in things began as I understand it with Balmain going under a few years ago and being propped up- but loosing the previous 30% (to a nominal 10%) if that is a correct memory? Can some Balmain backers fund a buy back of the 20% to return equality?

I think / hope the Magpies / Tigers eruptions die down but on the positive side of thing the Wests Tigers Board up to now have provided a stability to recruit very well in the last year by supporting Richardson. I hope whatever goes in at the Board doesn't influence further new recruitment.

Im not for the Romero- Burgess clique and very wary of the 'coup' against the Andricchoio, Wayde and name escapes me (Gilbert). Im perfectly happy being Tigers at the NRL level but I want the Magpies as the KOE side for my 2 cents worth.

We finally look to be on the way up from spoon material to something that can contest for the final 8 and hopefully sooner rather than later a premiership. I dont want this sh*tfest to derail the good work and effort by so many.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

but I want the Magpies as the KOE side for my 2 cents worth.

Why?

How does this fragmenting benefit the Wests Tigers?

 

[Lestronge]

Why?

How does this fragmenting benefit the Wests Tigers?

Don’t even do it to yourself mate . If your anti magpies , then you’re pro Balmain .
I’ve said 100 times over I want Balmain and the magpies to disappear and leave the wests tigers as its own thing entirely separate of both .

Cochise wants Balmain back LOL! He’s pretty much on every thing he has a platform on validated and repeated what everyone else wants .
A united wests tigers free of all the rubbish and bullshit that has held it back . And unfortunately that rubbish has now been identified as the Balmain and Wests Magpies boards. Both are as bad as each other , and whilst the magpies wield the power now , Balmain would be just as toxic if the shoes were on the other foot .
They all just need to let it go , and let the new generation take over with no affiliation to circa 1999 and prior .

 

[jirskyr]

Thing is we can't generalise.

HBG are very successful and growing. Burgess and Romero are part of that board......whether they are appropriate for the WT is another matter.

But Burgess is one board member. His tenure included Barry previously. Also David Gilbert, Rick Wayde, Joe Cool Marina Go etc.

Thing to, is nearly all the recruits bar May and Bird were initiated by the previous board and CEO.

Rick Wayde and John Dorahy are seasoned administrators......they were connected to Barnier and Richardson. They're no fools.

Richardson is doubling down on the process......albeit with professionalism and tact with player management.....the leaks have died down. Although the Luai clauses are not a special negotiation from our point of view.....just solid.

But the board is deficit David Gilbert, John Dorahy and Rick Wayde. This process has incurred casualties. Given Barry is one of the independents and was previously chair it's hard for me to see what the 3 new independents will have to offer above Gilbert, Dorahy and Wayde.

Dorahy was an independent obviously.

But that isn't to say that I'm against separation of powers from the HBG and WT board.

We can certainly generalise about one thing - since 2016 when Wests Ashfield took over majority power in the club, no longer on rotation with Balmain, it's been one failure after another. Certainly not a storied history prior to 2016, but since 2016 it's basically gotten worse and worse each year and HBG are responsible for that.

In that time we've changed the coach 5 times, overhauled the roster just as often, opened a Centre of Excellence, changed neutral home grounds, changed sponsor, changed independent chairperson 3 times and last year replaced the CEO.

There is nothing else that can be fundamentally changed at the club except the Board - it's structure and the members. In that period the Board control has not changed, simply rotated the roles and responsibilities amongst the same names.

It therefore stands to reason that an overhaul of the Board is the last logical step in a long line of changes to help make the club more successful. So even if you support Wests Ashfield or HBG or any individual Board member, the reality is those same folks in charge have not helped the club to any kind of recent success. So it's time for a big change - the independent review recommended change.

The issue is that 12 months later we still haven't seen the recommendations enacted. If anything, the most experienced sports administrators on the Board appear to be casualties of the process (as you have noted), particularly when Julie Romero (from insurance) is the current Chair and Denny Burgess (failed muso) is the Deputy, and they appear the least qualified to continue to lead.

 

[jadtiger]

I'll stick my head above the parapet this once in this volatile thread.

Im not happy with the shenanigans with the Board and its weakness in the set up exposed by this. Looks like the 'indenture' (?) membership and influence is just not working. Hopefully the new 3 x independents when they come in will be able to drive further change at the Board level. The imbalance in things began as I understand it with Balmain going under a few years ago and being propped up- but loosing the previous 30% (to a nominal 10%) if that is a correct memory? Can some Balmain backers fund a buy back of the 20% to return equality?

I think / hope the Magpies / Tigers eruptions die down but on the positive side of thing the Wests Tigers Board up to now have provided a stability to recruit very well in the last year by supporting Richardson. I hope whatever goes in at the Board doesn't influence further new recruitment.

Im not for the Romero- Burgess clique and very wary of the 'coup' against the Andricchoio, Wayde and name escapes me (Gilbert). Im perfectly happy being Tigers at the NRL level but I want the Magpies as the KOE side for my 2 cents worth.

We finally look to be on the way up from spoon material to something that can contest for the final 8 and hopefully sooner rather than later a premiership. I dont want this sh*tfest to derail the good work and effort by so many.

I agree with all of that except for the KOE comment.We should be WT in all senior grades and i more than happy for Balmain and the Magpies to exist at junior level as they are both our foundation clubs

 

[jirskyr]

Why?

How does this fragmenting benefit the Wests Tigers?

It should be Wests Tigers all the way down. Sheens already said it way back in the 2000s, though I can understand the initial hesitations amongst the factions at the beginning.

But now? It can't help us as a brand and institution to have kids playing for Balmain and Magpies until their mid teens, only then shifting to Wests Tigers. There's no longer any justification to dilute the club brand. I don't see having Wests Magpies in reserve grade benefits anyone.

If anything, many of the first grade sides have repealed their brand dilution in reserve grade that had been happening over the previous 10-15 years. For example Bulldogs withdrawing from the deal with Mounties and re-entering their own side into the NSWRL. Manly in 2025 have walked away from their deal with Blacktown Workers to re-enter their own side. The Dragons NSWRL Cup side is the same brand as their first grade. Roosters discontinued their association with the Bears and Wyong Roos. Even Warriors have their own self-branded NSWRL side.

In fact Sharks (Newtown) are the only NSW side to still have have a brand-independent feeder in the NSW Cup in 2025. Storm do as well (Bears) but this doesn't count because Storm don't have a local junior nursery to put forward.

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

It should be Wests Tigers all the way down. Sheens already said it way back in the 2000s, though I can understand the initial hesitations amongst the factions at the beginning.

But now? It can't help us as a brand and institution to have kids playing for Balmain and Magpies until their mid teens, only then shifting to Wests Tigers. There's no longer any justification to dilute the club brand. I don't see having Wests Magpies in reserve grade benefits anyone.

If anything, many of the first grade sides have repealed their brand dilution in reserve grade that had been happening over the previous 10-15 years. For example Bulldogs withdrawing from the deal with Mounties and re-entering their own side into the NSWRL. Manly in 2025 have walked away from their deal with Blacktown Workers to re-enter their own side. The Dragons NSWRL Cup side is the same brand as their first grade. Roosters discontinued their association with the Bears and Wyong Roos. Even Warriors have their own self-branded NSWRL side.

In fact Sharks (Newtown) are the only NSW side to still have have a brand-independent feeder in the NSW Cup in 2025. Storm do as well (Bears) but this doesn't count because Storm don't have a local junior nursery to put forward.

We should leave the juniors as Wests & Balmain just to make the most of the catchment areas but from Flegg through to NRL we should be Wests Tigers.

 

[magpies forever]

Why?

How does this fragmenting benefit the Wests Tigers?

Names / symbols mean something to some people- as a person with bonds / memory of the Magpies and their symbol - the Magpie. Ive got no desire for the symbol to be at the NRL level but I'd like the Magpie to be at the KOE level. My preference.

People may recall I recently posted a suggestion we go further with the Outlaw / Bushranger theme / symbol to get over the symbolism of previous clubs- Tiger and Magpie. Im sorry but I feel at present if we get rid of the Magpie at KOE and its all Tiger, Ive lost something. Im not pressing, or wanting Magpie at NRL but whats wrong with giving a dog a bone with the Magpie at KOE level? If we loose the Magpie at KOE level I'd be really thinking about a new symbol- as I said I like the Bushranger. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

AND back to the thread point, yes something has to be done about the Board and hold their feet to the fire until these 3 independents are announced and in place.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

I agree with all of that except for the KOE comment.We should be WT in all senior grades and i more than happy for Balmain and the Magpies to exist at junior level as they are both our foundation clubs

I don't even want them to exist in juniors... what would the point be? None of the kids will identify with Balmain or 'the magpies'.

Wests Tigers from top down, all grades, pathways, you name it.

Anyone that wants to cosplay as a sports administrator/'board member' but can't get over the fact that the foundation clubs are ancient history can help run the pokie dens/collect glasses and/or piss off entirely.

 

[jadtiger]

I don't even want them to exist in juniors... what would the point be? None of the kids will identify with Balmain or 'the magpies'.

Wests Tigers from top down, all grades, pathways, you name it.

Anyone that wants to cosplay as a sports administrator/'board member' but can't get over the fact that the foundation clubs are ancient history can help run the pokie dens/collect glasses and/or piss off entirely.

The benefit is having 2 teams of juniors coming through which should give us a better chance of identifying who to keep also it makes it easier for training purposes to keep 2 locations working or you would find players in one area going to play for a closer club than the one they are a junior of.That can be a massive issue at Mathews or Ball level

 

[farmduck]

Someone must know but there are a lot of questions that arise from all of this and here are just a few that come to mind:

• How long ago were these debentures issued?
• Is there a maturity date or a time that these debentures cease to exist?
• Are they redeemable, eventually convert into shares, will they eventually be paid out in full or are they perpetual?
• Is there a regular payment or an interest rate that is being paid on these debentures?
• How is that payment or interest rate calculated?

Some how I doubt if we are ever likely to find out the answer to any of this.

I haven't found an answer to the most fundamental question, "Why do these debentures even exist?" Here are some snippets I gleaned from a HBG Annual Report. I'm hopeless at understanding financial reports and accounting terms.

https://holmanbarnesgroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/HBG-AnnualReport_2022-23_WEB-1.pdf

Pages 11-13 Board profiles

Julie became a Debenture Holder in January 2009 and held the role of Secretary from February 2010 to December 2012. In February 2014, Julie was elected Debenture Holder Chairperson and held that role until February 2020, when she was nominated for election to the Board of Directors. Being a Director of Wests Ashfield has been an ambition of Julie’s and the driving force behind her application for a Debenture. She has previously been the Wests Ashfield nominee on the Board of the Western Suburbs Magpies, serving a 3-year term.​

Dennis Burgess He has been a Debenture Holder of ‘Western Suburbs Leagues Club Ltd’ since 1996

Mick Liubinskas: As well as being a Debenture Holder and Director of Wests Ashfield ...

Appointed to the Board of Directors in July 2020, Vince Tropiano has been a member of the Club since the late 1980s and a Debenture Holder since February 1996.

Dave Gilbert: A Wests Ashfield member since 2014, David became a Debenture Holder in 2019

(I can understand why some debentures may have been issued in 1996 but that doesn't explain why they still exist or why there would be any need to transfer them or issue any new ones.)​

Page 50:

​

3. Expenses

Interest and financial charges paid/payable on borrowings: $37,048

(I don't know what this is for. It couldn't be the debentures if they are only $2,000. Perhaps it was related to the Centre of Excellence?)


Page 64:

12. Financial Liabilities

Debenture loans $2,000

(These were the only listed financial liabilities for that year and showed an increase from $1,800 the previous year.)​