Second row / lock to start season

[gregjm87]

I'm confused about Twal. His defensive stats are usually good but I see too many line breaks made around him.

Can't wrestle and slow to get up off the ground and no hustle to get back in defence. The breaks are where he should be getting back to rather than him actually missing.
His actual tackling is decent but given the above opposition runners target him for quick play the balls. This actually leads to improved stats for him as he rarely misses his tackles and also completes them all as the ball runner would rather engage him and go to ground than try to offload or go around him.

 

[2041]

Easily our weakest position, but I think they'll run with

11. Samuela Fainu
12. Alex Seyfarth
13. Jack Bird

Thought they found something with Seyfarth on an edge at the end of 2024 Really needs to manage his discipline but when he does he can run a good line and defend well on an edge. Not quite physical enough to be an effective middle forward

Jack Bird as 13 isn't what I'd want ideally but he's training there and I think that's what they'll go with.

Pole is much more suited as a bench middle, and I'm praying Matamua can improve himself and earn the spot as our attack looks miles better with him at 13, as very few of our middle have an effective passing game

Really likes Latu Fainu off the bench playing in the middle also, however would also love to see TDS on the bench and don't think we can carry both, so not sure what they'll do there

I also think this is what it'll be and TBH at this stage I more or less hope it is, barring someone taking a leap forward in training and trials that we aren't aware of yet.

Sam Fainu is already an attacking weapon and could become a genuinely elite attacking edge. On the other hand, his defence was let's say naive last season - we coughed up a lot of tries when he bit on dummies and decoys and left space on his inside. No reason why he can't clean that up with experience and practice - if he does he's a star player.

Seyfarth gets a lot of flak but he's improved significantly and while he's never going to be a standout I think he's first grade standard if he can reduce his disciplinary issues. Every team has some solid but not outstanding contributors (Luke Garner has premiership medals to prove it) but they can't afford to be liabilities - for instance by getting sin binned regularly.

I don't think Bird has much of anything left in the tank and I doubt we'll get more than a handful of games out of him. But the only other options we have at 13 are basically third props, and the game has moved so far past that as the most constructive use of the role that it's actually embarrassing to think that we'd use Pole or Twal there. I'm not really sure what the answer is in the longer term but this is the spot I think needs most attention paid to it: you can get by with solid if unspectacular centres and edges (and besides, Sam Fainu and Makasini might be a lot more than that) but I don't really see where out auxiliary playmaker number 13 is coming from.

 

[Jolls]

I also think this is what it'll be and TBH at this stage I more or less hope it is, barring someone taking a leap forward in training and trials that we aren't aware of yet.

Sam Fainu is already an attacking weapon and could become a genuinely elite attacking edge. On the other hand, his defence was let's say naive last season - we coughed up a lot of tries when he bit on dummies and decoys and left space on his inside. No reason why he can't clean that up with experience and practice - if he does he's a star player.

Seyfarth gets a lot of flak but he's improved significantly and while he's never going to be a standout I think he's first grade standard if he can reduce his disciplinary issues. Every team has some solid but not outstanding contributors (Luke Garner has premiership medals to prove it) but they can't afford to be liabilities - for instance by getting sin binned regularly.

I don't think Bird has much of anything left in the tank and I doubt we'll get more than a handful of games out of him. But the only other options we have at 13 are basically third props, and the game has moved so far past that as the most constructive use of the role that it's actually embarrassing to think that we'd use Pole or Twal there. I'm not really sure what the answer is in the longer term but this is the spot I think needs most attention paid to it: you can get by with solid if unspectacular centres and edges (and besides, Sam Fainu and Makasini might be a lot more than that) but I don't really see where out auxiliary playmaker number 13 is coming from.

I'm not so much concerned about our likely starters as there are definitely workable options on the edges and at lock. I am more worried about depth when the inevitable injuries come. I trust that mail on Hassison Hasset is good. If so we will have some worthwhile competition on the edge.

Bird and Matamua are the obvious choices for the first look at lock; I agree 100% that running a third prop is a backwards step. While Bird has had a horrid injury run he has been bretty durable in recent times (touch wood this doesn't mean he is due). Matamua looks to have trimmed down a bit and given they are both palymakers will provide continuity in the style of play we have in Cup and FG.

I think we really need one of Sydney based comrades to get down to training and let us know how the attacking drills are being run and who is defending where in the opposed sessions.

 

[AdelaideTiger]

. . . . . . . to go out to the shed and sharpen them.

Come on, it's season 3 in the top 30, get it done or be gone.

He is only 21, not ready for the scrap heaps just yet

 

[Chipofftheoldblock]

I think Tony Sukkar (who can also kick goals) is a dark horse as well as Jaxson Rahme.

 

[Jolls]

I think Tony Sukkar (who can also kick goals) is a dark horse as well as Jaxson Rahme.

It would be good to see them pushing for a FG spot. The more internal pressure for FG positions the better for us overall.

 

[2041]

I'm not so much concerned about our likely starters as there are definitely workable options on the edges and at lock. I am more worried about depth when the inevitable injuries come. I trust that mail on Hassison Hasset is good. If so we will have some worthwhile competition on the edge.

Bird and Matamua are the obvious choices for the first look at lock; I agree 100% that running a third prop is a backwards step. While Bird has had a horrid injury run he has been bretty durable in recent times (touch wood this doesn't mean he is due). Matamua looks to have trimmed down a bit and given they are both palymakers will provide continuity in the style of play we have in Cup and FG.

I think we really need one of Sydney based comrades to get down to training and let us know how the attacking drills are being run and who is defending where in the opposed sessions.

Bird at lock also introduces an interesting question about the bench. I think we'd all assume a four prop rotation is May, Klemmer, Pole and Hunt in some order, and that Koroisau is no longer an 80 minute hooker except in emergency so Da Silva likely takes the third bench spot (or Latu Fainu as a more versatile 14 - personally I'd go Da Silva as you should have the best sub for the switch you know you're going to make rather than the one you're worried you might have to).

But if Bird starts at 13 there's no way he's playing 80 minutes, either. And replacing him with a prop is going to be a jarring tactical switch not to mention being the opposite of what you'd assume you'd be wanting to do - ie bringing on smaller guy to exploit fatigue. The idea of getting on top up front in the first 25-30 minutes then chucking Twal out there at 13 would be bizarre.

I guess this means Matamua would have the inside line on the fourth bench spot, unless we want to be hyper aggressive and name Latu Fainu and Da Silva on the bench. To your point, we're pretty exposed depth-wise because the obvious cover for an edge would be Bird and after that there's really not much for 11, 12 or 13.

Going back on myself slightly, maybe one option would be to start a big unit at 13 - presumably Pole or conceivably even Hunt - and aim to batter the oppo for the first 20 minutes, before bringing on Bird for the rest of the game.

 

[king_sirro]

Bird at lock also introduces an interesting question about the bench. I think we'd all assume a four prop rotation is May, Klemmer, Pole and Hunt in some order, and that Koroisau is no longer an 80 minute hooker except in emergency so Da Silva likely takes the third bench spot (or Latu Fainu as a more versatile 14 - personally I'd go Da Silva as you should have the best sub for the switch you know you're going to make rather than the one you're worried you might have to).

But if Bird starts at 13 there's no way he's playing 80 minutes, either. And replacing him with a prop is going to be a jarring tactical switch not to mention being the opposite of what you'd assume you'd be wanting to do - ie bringing on smaller guy to exploit fatigue. The idea of getting on top up front in the first 25-30 minutes then chucking Twal out there at 13 would be bizarre.

I guess this means Matamua would have the inside line on the fourth bench spot, unless we want to be hyper aggressive and name Latu Fainu and Da Silva on the bench. To your point, we're pretty exposed depth-wise because the obvious cover for an edge would be Bird and after that there's really not much for 11, 12 or 13.

Going back on myself slightly, maybe one option would be to start a big unit at 13 - presumably Pole or conceivably even Hunt - and aim to batter the oppo for the first 20 minutes, before bringing on Bird for the rest of the game.

Just a guess, but I think Bird will start at lock with Latu replacing him. Then later in the game, Bird will either come back on at lock, or if an edge backrower needs a rest and Latu is going good, he will come back on an edge.

Wouldn't surprise me if both Latu and Bird are spending a bit of time at dummy half as well, just to give us some flexibility in regards to resting our hooker if needed.

 

[Jolls]

Just a guess, but I think Bird will start at lock with Latu replacing him. Then later in the game, Bird will either come back on at lock, or if an edge backrower needs a rest and Latu is going good, he will come back on an edge.

Wouldn't surprise me if both Latu and Bird are spending a bit of time at dummy half as well, just to give us some flexibility in regards to resting our hooker if needed.

I have concerns about that option, but not because I don't thnk Latu couldn't do it. Looking more at his development, given he played limited minutes in 2024, I think he has to be in the starting halves in cup for at least the first part of the season to get some miles into him and guiding the team around,

 

[gregjm87]

Play Bird out wider & Seyfarth in the middle? Play Twal at #13? Anyone that can stand up to the big guys coming at them & make 40-50 tackles a game.

I like Bird, but if he's not playing centre (my preference) then I'm defending him out wide.

Given we don't seem to have any ideal candidate that can do a job on both sides of the ball at backrow or lock I'd be having Bird 13 in attack and backrow in defence then which ever middle can best run an unders line I'd guess either Seyfarth or Sione backrow in attack and 13 in defence.
Just what I would do to try to utilise the strengths and hide their weaknesses. I don't expect this to happen, I believe it will be Bird lock Seyfarth edge.

 

[Jolls]

Given we don't seem to have any ideal candidate that can do a job on both sides of the ball at backrow or lock I'd be having Bird 13 in attack and backrow in defence then which ever middle can best run an unders line I'd guess either Seyfarth or Sione backrow in attack and 13 in defence.
Just what I would do to try to utilise the strengths and hide their weaknesses. I don't expect this to happen, I believe it will be Bird lock Seyfarth edge.

If Bird/Matamua aren't up to defending in the middle this is a valid defensive strategy and one that could easily be incorporated into both grades. I'm looking forward to the trials to see how we make the most of the attacking skill set and mitigate any, perceived or otherwise, defensive weaknesses. Having Bird defend on an edge would almost be bread and butter for him - Matamua - not so sure.