Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

upthetigers said:
AD fan and hate on Seyfarth, I should add you to my ignore list
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I hate AD. How dare you lol. Seyfarth is not a starting NRL player. I am not a fan of him like so many tigers fans are. Right centre was the one position I wanted us to sign a player in and right second row too. Ice would have been good to keep
 
Jolls said:
RG,

Thanks for your take, but most of what you have provided are opinions as opposed to examples. While I expect that some of these are contibutors to our poor performance in and of themselves they don't indicate that he is a shit coach.

Two wooden spoons may be partly attributed to coaching but the player roster probably has more bearing on that, and the playing roster can be linked to the previous selection committee and board. I don't think you can ditectly link tow wooden spoons to poor coaching; the facts just don't support that conclusion. Could a more experineced coach have got us over the line - perhaps but not to the extent we were pushing for the eight with the roster we had. I can fully support that poor coaching cost us the spoon bowl - but that would have moved us from 17th the 16th. No change really.

So who was constantly picked out of position? I didn't recall this as an issue. I would suggest that this is a matter of opinion as opposed to an example of poor coaching. To me this is a generalisation as opposed to evidence of poor coaching. How wna when did this cause our poor performances?

I would have preferred to ease Galvin into FG as well; however, he is not the first 18 year old to debut and play FG; many in teams with successful coaches. Giving young players exposure, even at 18, can fast-track their development. Injuries and overplaying are legitimate concerns, but the responsibility for player welfare involves multiple staff, not just the head coach. So you I expect we are looking at the high perfromance and medical teams as well. Our arm chair opinions don't carry much weight here. Who would you have replaced him with? Sulivan - and if he did and had Galvin in Reggies people would be calling for his head for playing Sullivan instead of the kid, No win and not an example of poor coaching. On the other hand plenty of seasoned commentators are signing his praises for taking the approach he did with Galvin. Johns and Gus decelaring him a revelation at the Tigers and the best teen they have ever seen. This is a matter of opinion as opposed to evidence of him being a poor coach.

I don't think you can say there was a lack of a defensive game plan. In fact when they executed the defensive game plan well we perfromed well. There were times when we had good line speed, times when we had very good chase, time when we didn't have shooters in the line causing holes. When we put it together for 80 minutes we won games. We had too many lapses - was that fitness, player ability (AD/Sezer/The Pillow for example). I highly doubt that we didn't spend time coaching a workable defensive game plan, The evidence clearly shows that we did; what we don't know is why we couldn't put it together for the duration of the game. Too complex - haven't heard that anywhere - all indications are that he simplified the game plans.

I'm struggling to understand how Benji's coaching was responsible for the lack of discipline from the playing group. He sacked Naden for it, Bateman was exiled as a result of being called out for it, Seyfarth reeled it in, Sezer was going to be replaced by?????. If anything he was very clear, and in the pressers as well, that he was not happy with the discipline and that if the plyers didn't change the would change the players. I don't buy this at all.

There is a balance between being one of the boys and being the coach. Unless you are on the inside how can anyone say if he has it right or wrong. I am not hearing anything from inside of the camp that support this - in fact most of the players when interviewd say the oipposite- he gets in with theboys and shows them what he wants and is also very direct and calls a spade a spade. We have heard that he has taken a very different approach to this pre season as well. Have you considered that being “one of the boys” might actually help foster a supportive environment, particularly for a team in transition or rebuilding mod? Benji’s experience and charisma could be what turns us around. I'm not saying at all that he has the balance right - but I don't see any evidence that supports your opinion. I'm on the fence with this.

How do you link the approach to pressers to being a poor coach. This is a stretch and again a matter of opinion, You coule equally argue that publicly backing the team, even in tough times, shields players from external pressures and media scrutiny. You can bet that Benji's Monday morning video sessions don't include his press comments. What do you know about his internal accountability measures? I doubt this is visible to outsiders, so if you have evidence to support the point I am all ears but this is purely opinion.

Look I get that we haven't performed well. I'm on the fence as to his coaching ability as there is evidence to suggest that the plying group have been instructed on what to do, but have failed to execute it. They boys on the Wests Tigers Faithful podcast did an excellent breakdown of our performace over 2024 and one of the more telling facts was where we were receiving the ball from and turning the ball over to the opposition. So we weren't able to get out of our end - that isn't coaching that the poor roster. The attackign stats in several areas were at the top of the league and some of our defensive stats were also OK. So the evidence does not support the opinions that many had in realtion to poor attack and defence.

Benji's coaching career is just beginning. Judging him on early results ignores the possibility of growth, refinement, and the impact of long-term strategies. Strategies that Benji and Richo have stated on many occasions are in place and they are not deviating from the pla. The team needs time to be adapted to this vision and strategy. Despite Benji being here for a couple of years the vision and strategy started in 2024.

Every coach starts somewhere, and while early results or decisions may be polarising, it's crucial to give time for development and see where his leadership takes the team. So at the end of the day I still seen haven't seen much evidence that supports the statements that his coaching is poor. I have seen no evidence that supports the statements that he is shit coach; just plenty of opinion.

He has definitely made mistakes, but what coach hasn't? Until somone provides evidence that his coaching is poor I'm still sitting on the fence and giving him some more rope.
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I'll give him credit where it's due. He started the season well. We had 2 wins vs eels and sharks which were great. We went on a losing run which is expected with a team like ours, but where the season really imploded is when he went on that holiday and we got flogged by the dragons in wollongong. Our season went downhill from there and never recovered fully apart from a win vs a negative raiders team and some late scraps. Not expecting us to beat any of the top teams, just be competitive in most games, and we knew the result before half time in most games in the back end of the season.

Calling everything I stated an opinion is an opinion itself. His press conference after spoonbowl was shameful. It was totally his fault and he looked like he didn't care. Picking AD in the team at centre is out of position. Only spot he should crack is 14 or halves if our depth is very bad. Benji is very early in his coaching career, perhaps brave to take it on in such a tumultuous time, but why should I back him in if I am very sure he will continue to be a failure? I don't think all these signings we've made will change anything. I haven't seen any game plans from last year that show us being a threat to even make it out of the bottom 4. All it takes is one big injury and we are getting the spoon again. And that's not pessimism, it's reality
 
hsvjones said:
We should make sure we look after Latu F big time as he will be our future 6 with Laui. Every article and interview Galvin does not give me any hope of him sticking around IMO.

His manager is all about money and feel Roosters or Dogs know this and will Jump Nov 1.

I hope I'm wrong but don't want to put all our hopes in a guy that won't commit and then lose him and Latu as well in a few years.

I also don't buy this waiting to see how we go especially when Richo and Benji have done a A+ recruitment drive and done their side of the deal. Now it's on the players to do their side.
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He's managed by Isaac Moses and the Roosters have declared they won't deal with any player managed by him anymore so all this talk about Galvin to the Roosters I find hard to believe
 
Buttface said:
Great post Jolls, always well thought out, opinionated, but open to debate, and without pushing an agenda. That’s the best article/post I’ve read this week.

I did need an intermission. 😎
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@Jolls
Hey mate, I didn’t mean you are some opinionated boofhead, as it may read, as it was helpfully pointed out to me.

Words suk, numbers good.
 
yeti said:
I assume he was trying to relieve the pressure on the young guys by giving them some 'freedom' to throw it around and have fun. (I bet they had a great time - not)! As I said, he would have learnt a lot from that one. Terrible coaching error - rookie mistake.
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I think you may be correct but I don’t get this relieve pressure stuff. Pressure is a privilege and the young need to practice it or they won’t get better at it, and that was an ideal opportunity for practicing under pressure.
 
Jolls said:
Spoon bowl was a major coaching stuff up. He gets 100% credit for that one. I'm not talking him up; I'm on the fence, but I haven't seen evidence that he can't. Plenty of opinions based on results.
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I'm not so sure.

I honestly think Coach Benji has taken one for the team publicaly and as a precaution.

This is to say that 2024 was a total write off.
 
Jolls said:
RG,

Thanks for your take, but most of what you have provided are opinions as opposed to examples. While I expect that some of these are contibutors to our poor performance in and of themselves they don't indicate that he is a shit coach.

Two wooden spoons may be partly attributed to coaching but the player roster probably has more bearing on that, and the playing roster can be linked to the previous selection committee and board. I don't think you can ditectly link tow wooden spoons to poor coaching; the facts just don't support that conclusion. Could a more experineced coach have got us over the line - perhaps but not to the extent we were pushing for the eight with the roster we had. I can fully support that poor coaching cost us the spoon bowl - but that would have moved us from 17th the 16th. No change really.

So who was constantly picked out of position? I didn't recall this as an issue. I would suggest that this is a matter of opinion as opposed to an example of poor coaching. To me this is a generalisation as opposed to evidence of poor coaching. How wna when did this cause our poor performances?

I would have preferred to ease Galvin into FG as well; however, he is not the first 18 year old to debut and play FG; many in teams with successful coaches. Giving young players exposure, even at 18, can fast-track their development. Injuries and overplaying are legitimate concerns, but the responsibility for player welfare involves multiple staff, not just the head coach. So you I expect we are looking at the high perfromance and medical teams as well. Our arm chair opinions don't carry much weight here. Who would you have replaced him with? Sulivan - and if he did and had Galvin in Reggies people would be calling for his head for playing Sullivan instead of the kid, No win and not an example of poor coaching. On the other hand plenty of seasoned commentators are signing his praises for taking the approach he did with Galvin. Johns and Gus decelaring him a revelation at the Tigers and the best teen they have ever seen. This is a matter of opinion as opposed to evidence of him being a poor coach.

I don't think you can say there was a lack of a defensive game plan. In fact when they executed the defensive game plan well we perfromed well. There were times when we had good line speed, times when we had very good chase, time when we didn't have shooters in the line causing holes. When we put it together for 80 minutes we won games. We had too many lapses - was that fitness, player ability (AD/Sezer/The Pillow for example). I highly doubt that we didn't spend time coaching a workable defensive game plan, The evidence clearly shows that we did; what we don't know is why we couldn't put it together for the duration of the game. Too complex - haven't heard that anywhere - all indications are that he simplified the game plans.

I'm struggling to understand how Benji's coaching was responsible for the lack of discipline from the playing group. He sacked Naden for it, Bateman was exiled as a result of being called out for it, Seyfarth reeled it in, Sezer was going to be replaced by?????. If anything he was very clear, and in the pressers as well, that he was not happy with the discipline and that if the plyers didn't change the would change the players. I don't buy this at all.

There is a balance between being one of the boys and being the coach. Unless you are on the inside how can anyone say if he has it right or wrong. I am not hearing anything from inside of the camp that support this - in fact most of the players when interviewd say the oipposite- he gets in with theboys and shows them what he wants and is also very direct and calls a spade a spade. We have heard that he has taken a very different approach to this pre season as well. Have you considered that being “one of the boys” might actually help foster a supportive environment, particularly for a team in transition or rebuilding mod? Benji’s experience and charisma could be what turns us around. I'm not saying at all that he has the balance right - but I don't see any evidence that supports your opinion. I'm on the fence with this.

How do you link the approach to pressers to being a poor coach. This is a stretch and again a matter of opinion, You coule equally argue that publicly backing the team, even in tough times, shields players from external pressures and media scrutiny. You can bet that Benji's Monday morning video sessions don't include his press comments. What do you know about his internal accountability measures? I doubt this is visible to outsiders, so if you have evidence to support the point I am all ears but this is purely opinion.

Look I get that we haven't performed well. I'm on the fence as to his coaching ability as there is evidence to suggest that the plying group have been instructed on what to do, but have failed to execute it. They boys on the Wests Tigers Faithful podcast did an excellent breakdown of our performace over 2024 and one of the more telling facts was where we were receiving the ball from and turning the ball over to the opposition. So we weren't able to get out of our end - that isn't coaching that the poor roster. The attackign stats in several areas were at the top of the league and some of our defensive stats were also OK. So the evidence does not support the opinions that many had in realtion to poor attack and defence.

Benji's coaching career is just beginning. Judging him on early results ignores the possibility of growth, refinement, and the impact of long-term strategies. Strategies that Benji and Richo have stated on many occasions are in place and they are not deviating from the pla. The team needs time to be adapted to this vision and strategy. Despite Benji being here for a couple of years the vision and strategy started in 2024.

Every coach starts somewhere, and while early results or decisions may be polarising, it's crucial to give time for development and see where his leadership takes the team. So at the end of the day I still seen haven't seen much evidence that supports the statements that his coaching is poor. I have seen no evidence that supports the statements that he is shit coach; just plenty of opinion.

He has definitely made mistakes, but what coach hasn't? Until somone provides evidence that his coaching is poor I'm still sitting on the fence and giving him some more rope.
Click to expand...
Great post.

My opinion is he has proven to be a poor coach thus far. Yes that is just an opinion and just based on results but those results are not just the spoons. We have seen he has failed to motivate and even fallen out with multiple quality players (JOffa, Nofoaluma, Bateman, Utoikamanu, Papallii as well as reportedly Klemmer, Naden). That is a long list for such a short career. Some on that list could be written off as aligned with the previous coach, or issues with the individual more so the coach, others however were signed by him (well by Sheens with Marshall having final say is what we were told) and should not be brushed over.

One thing you however noted that gives me hope is that he should be learning from his mistakes. Unlike other more experienced coaches who have already made their errors and learnt from them Marshall's inexperience means he has a lot to learn. The hope is he learns his lessons and improves his coaching to where we can believe he is a good coach, more so than hope he is/will be.

This is his first season with pretty much the whole roster being 'his' and he has got the big name recruit. I think he should be given the chance to show significant improvement with his roster. Do I expect him to succeed? No, I think his inexperience will hold him back as well as I think the trend of falling out with players should not be ignored. I also question if he has the right personality for a coach. That doesn't mean I'm against him. I'm hopeful he can prove me wrong.
 
One of the biggest things a junior coach has to withstand is lack of respect especially from senior players that played against or with him. I’ve seen this in country football a number of times and I doubt there’s less of it at nrl level
Benji may have some floors but if senior players are falling out with him it’s just as much a knock on them as a senior/ leader as it is on benji
I’d also put money on them not realising they were doing it unless it’s pointed out to them
 
Jolls said:
RG,

Thanks for your take, but most of what you have provided are opinions as opposed to examples. While I expect that some of these are contibutors to our poor performance in and of themselves they don't indicate that he is a shit coach.

Two wooden spoons may be partly attributed to coaching but the player roster probably has more bearing on that, and the playing roster can be linked to the previous selection committee and board. I don't think you can ditectly link tow wooden spoons to poor coaching; the facts just don't support that conclusion. Could a more experineced coach have got us over the line - perhaps but not to the extent we were pushing for the eight with the roster we had. I can fully support that poor coaching cost us the spoon bowl - but that would have moved us from 17th the 16th. No change really.

So who was constantly picked out of position? I didn't recall this as an issue. I would suggest that this is a matter of opinion as opposed to an example of poor coaching. To me this is a generalisation as opposed to evidence of poor coaching. How wna when did this cause our poor performances?

I would have preferred to ease Galvin into FG as well; however, he is not the first 18 year old to debut and play FG; many in teams with successful coaches. Giving young players exposure, even at 18, can fast-track their development. Injuries and overplaying are legitimate concerns, but the responsibility for player welfare involves multiple staff, not just the head coach. So you I expect we are looking at the high perfromance and medical teams as well. Our arm chair opinions don't carry much weight here. Who would you have replaced him with? Sulivan - and if he did and had Galvin in Reggies people would be calling for his head for playing Sullivan instead of the kid, No win and not an example of poor coaching. On the other hand plenty of seasoned commentators are signing his praises for taking the approach he did with Galvin. Johns and Gus decelaring him a revelation at the Tigers and the best teen they have ever seen. This is a matter of opinion as opposed to evidence of him being a poor coach.

I don't think you can say there was a lack of a defensive game plan. In fact when they executed the defensive game plan well we perfromed well. There were times when we had good line speed, times when we had very good chase, time when we didn't have shooters in the line causing holes. When we put it together for 80 minutes we won games. We had too many lapses - was that fitness, player ability (AD/Sezer/The Pillow for example). I highly doubt that we didn't spend time coaching a workable defensive game plan, The evidence clearly shows that we did; what we don't know is why we couldn't put it together for the duration of the game. Too complex - haven't heard that anywhere - all indications are that he simplified the game plans.

I'm struggling to understand how Benji's coaching was responsible for the lack of discipline from the playing group. He sacked Naden for it, Bateman was exiled as a result of being called out for it, Seyfarth reeled it in, Sezer was going to be replaced by?????. If anything he was very clear, and in the pressers as well, that he was not happy with the discipline and that if the plyers didn't change the would change the players. I don't buy this at all.

There is a balance between being one of the boys and being the coach. Unless you are on the inside how can anyone say if he has it right or wrong. I am not hearing anything from inside of the camp that support this - in fact most of the players when interviewd say the oipposite- he gets in with theboys and shows them what he wants and is also very direct and calls a spade a spade. We have heard that he has taken a very different approach to this pre season as well. Have you considered that being “one of the boys” might actually help foster a supportive environment, particularly for a team in transition or rebuilding mod? Benji’s experience and charisma could be what turns us around. I'm not saying at all that he has the balance right - but I don't see any evidence that supports your opinion. I'm on the fence with this.

How do you link the approach to pressers to being a poor coach. This is a stretch and again a matter of opinion, You coule equally argue that publicly backing the team, even in tough times, shields players from external pressures and media scrutiny. You can bet that Benji's Monday morning video sessions don't include his press comments. What do you know about his internal accountability measures? I doubt this is visible to outsiders, so if you have evidence to support the point I am all ears but this is purely opinion.

Look I get that we haven't performed well. I'm on the fence as to his coaching ability as there is evidence to suggest that the plying group have been instructed on what to do, but have failed to execute it. They boys on the Wests Tigers Faithful podcast did an excellent breakdown of our performace over 2024 and one of the more telling facts was where we were receiving the ball from and turning the ball over to the opposition. So we weren't able to get out of our end - that isn't coaching that the poor roster. The attackign stats in several areas were at the top of the league and some of our defensive stats were also OK. So the evidence does not support the opinions that many had in realtion to poor attack and defence.

Benji's coaching career is just beginning. Judging him on early results ignores the possibility of growth, refinement, and the impact of long-term strategies. Strategies that Benji and Richo have stated on many occasions are in place and they are not deviating from the pla. The team needs time to be adapted to this vision and strategy. Despite Benji being here for a couple of years the vision and strategy started in 2024.

Every coach starts somewhere, and while early results or decisions may be polarising, it's crucial to give time for development and see where his leadership takes the team. So at the end of the day I still seen haven't seen much evidence that supports the statements that his coaching is poor. I have seen no evidence that supports the statements that he is shit coach; just plenty of opinion.

He has definitely made mistakes, but what coach hasn't? Until somone provides evidence that his coaching is poor I'm still sitting on the fence and giving him some more rope.
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Intelligent reply as always Jolls
 
gregjm87 said:
Great post.

My opinion is he has proven to be a poor coach thus far. Yes that is just an opinion and just based on results but those results are not just the spoons. We have seen he has failed to motivate and even fallen out with multiple quality players (JOffa, Nofoaluma, Bateman, Utoikamanu, Papallii as well as reportedly Klemmer, Naden). That is a long list for such a short career. Some on that list could be written off as aligned with the previous coach, or issues with the individual more so the coach, others however were signed by him (well by Sheens with Marshall having final say is what we were told) and should not be brushed over.

One thing you however noted that gives me hope is that he should be learning from his mistakes. Unlike other more experienced coaches who have already made their errors and learnt from them Marshall's inexperience means he has a lot to learn. The hope is he learns his lessons and improves his coaching to where we can believe he is a good coach, more so than hope he is/will be.

This is his first season with pretty much the whole roster being 'his' and he has got the big name recruit. I think he should be given the chance to show significant improvement with his roster. Do I expect him to succeed? No, I think his inexperience will hold him back as well as I think the trend of falling out with players should not be ignored. I also question if he has the right personality for a coach. That doesn't mean I'm against him. I'm hopeful he can prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

Interesting how different people see things- see I don’t see Benji’s “falling out” as you call it, as a Benji problem so much. Furthermore I don’t agree with the description of those particular players as “quality NRL players” specifically, particularly with regards to the way they played at the Tigers, especially in recent seasons.
Every one of the players you have mentioned had specific performance issues that Benji called them out on - some might say that it needed to be done and applaud him for doing it when previous coaches never seemed to want to.
Also, I think it’s yet to be seen whether his “failures” in this area lead us to a better squad and better results. Certainly I for one am not unhappy that he has made it clear what he is expecting from experienced players and I am also not unhappy that the players you mentioned are on the outer or already “outed”!
 
Oldman said:
So what are your thoughts on the money that Latu Fainu is supposedly on $500k ?
I know who we got value for money from in 2024
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Like I said at the Tigers specialist in paying overs

That's part of the reason I like Richo so much from what I know he only paid bigs overs once at Souths to get the ball rolling in recruitment and then stopped and paid around market value
 
orange&black said:
Interesting how different people see things- see I don’t see Benji’s “falling out” as you call it, as a Benji problem so much. Furthermore I don’t agree with the description of those particular players as “quality NRL players” specifically, particularly with regards to the way they played at the Tigers, especially in recent seasons.
Every one of the players you have mentioned had specific performance issues that Benji called them out on - some might say that it needed to be done and applaud him for doing it when previous coaches never seemed to want to.
Also, I think it’s yet to be seen whether his “failures” in this area lead us to a better squad and better results. Certainly I for one am not unhappy that he has made it clear what he is expecting from experienced players and I am also not unhappy that the players you mentioned are on the outer or already “outed”!
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I think the fact all the players he supposedly fell out with , have a legacy of getting offside with coaching staff is a pretty big factor in this .
I’d say no matter what Benji said to them , whether bullshit or as if the insights of Warren Ryan , combined with Bellamy and using Wayne Bennett tact , had spewed out of his mouth , the fact it was negative and Benji delivering the messages , meant the players weren’t going to listen and chuck a wobbly .
The “what do you know , you’ve been a coach since morning tea “ dismissal would have taken effect . Until Benji gets runs on the board , and wins , there will be players who will chose this avenue . Maybe they saw him as a guy they could take the piss on, maybe it’s deeper and Benji has shit delivery in his negative interactions , either way I don’t think the outcome ours have changed .
Benji needed to go full Madge / Bellamy dictator this offseason , as if he went the , “we are all in this together” approach From last year , would have maybe lost the dressing room.
And I don’t care what anyone says , Bateman was captain and the worst guy on the field , and had been that way for weeks prior . Naden is 28 and 27 back then , was seen as a leader , did press conferences where he was as asked those questions , same with AD, and naden delivered the worst performance I think I’ve ever seen at centre .
That has zero to do with babying kids ,and everything to do with their own lack of accountability for themselves .
It looks like naden has woken up to himself , but Bateman will take his Schtick to NQ and history will repeat itself for the 4th time .
He needs wins , though , that’s just a fact . Everyone knows this team is at least potentially a top 8 contender . It’s up to the coaching staff to deliver now .
 
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