Recruitment club vs Development club

gregjm87 said:
I don't know how much is being invested currently or in the past but I've been reading on here more or less everything you have written for at least 5 years.
Is there any evidence that the current iteration of being serious the last 2 years is any truer than what has been written the last few years.
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Back to the future today …they are forever 2 years into a 5 year rebuild
 
As an outsider looking in, it seems reasonably evident that the junior pathways are working in the way that good prospects are being identified.
It’s the step between this and first grade where the system fails.
Fast tracking kids well ahead of schedule, well ahead of having paid their dues…recipe for continued failure - as we are witnessing.
 
weststigerman said:
For the last 5 years or so the club has talked about being a development club.

This year for the first time in a while, our external recruits have been the ones changing the club, while arguably our best junior is leaving and a few of our highly rated players have not made the step up or been let go: Feledy, Matamua, Miller, Faagutu etc.

Almost all of our pathways teams have sucked this year. There are only a handful seen as first grade prospects.

A recruitment club like the Bulldogs seem to have better juniors than us.

Curious to see how those closer to the junior pathways see things.
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Just listen to Richo on James Graham on YouTube and listen carefully to his cake analogy. It's all there.
 
Im certainly no expert on where this club is at on the development side of things, but from the outside looking in I find it deeply concerning that our Flegg and KOE sides are still rubbish. KOE in particular. I see people go on about "next man up" but do we have any players capable of being that?
Again, only from the outside looking in, it seems we have massive problems with our coaches in charge and their ability to get players ready for higher grades. I'm not sure what Paynes record as a coach was before he came here, but based on his results, he wouldn't get a gig at the local A-grade after his performances here.
Similar thoughts on Flegg. If we have so many good juniors, we should be top 4. Either the talent identification is not good enough, or the coaching isn't. Something has to change.
 
Furious1 said:
Im certainly no expert on where this club is at on the development side of things, but from the outside looking in I find it deeply concerning that our Flegg and KOE sides are still rubbish. KOE in particular. I see people go on about "next man up" but do we have any players capable of being that?
Again, only from the outside looking in, it seems we have massive problems with our coaches in charge and their ability to get players ready for higher grades. I'm not sure what Paynes record as a coach was before he came here, but based on his results, he wouldn't get a gig at the local A-grade after his performances here.
Similar thoughts on Flegg. If we have so many good juniors, we should be top 4. Either the talent identification is not good enough, or the coaching isn't. Something has to change.
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You would think even with sub par management and coaching , the sheer numbers of juniors would be producing better elite talent and thus better results … there are probably just too many things that need changing at the WT that they just haven’t had time yet to start micromanaging the juniors
 
Tom Shines said:
You would think even with sub par management and coaching , the sheer numbers of juniors would be producing better elite talent and thus better results … there are probably just too many things that need changing at the WT that they just haven’t had time yet to start micromanaging the juniors
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I follow the pathways fairly closely, always have enjoyed that aspect of supporting a Club in being able to follow the progress of talented juniors.

What I can see from a distance is multi-faceted as you've alluded to TS ...

1. Do we identify the right juniors at the 17-18yo level who have the physical, performance & skill attributes to likely progress to NRL?

For example, currently we seem to lack big & powerful middles through the grades (in the past year we have lost Cooper Clarke & Maddax Fui to other clubs); players with supreme speed & athletic ability (which I why I love what Tino Tavana & Riley Oitmann as only a few I can think of); and, game-managing halves.

2. Are we effectively recruiting from outside to fill these voids at SG Ball level?

3. Do we actually properly develop the players that are identified?

4. Tied in with the above question, do we have the same resources in terms of $$$ & coaching/development staff that the Bulldogs & Panthers have for pathways?
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
For example, currently we seem to lack big & powerful middles through the grades (in the past year we have lost Cooper Clarke & Maddax Fui to other clubs); players with supreme speed & athletic ability (which I why I love what Tino Tavana & Riley Oitmann as only a few I can think of); and, game-managing halves.
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I’m sure you are much more of an expert than me on the juniors …however one perception I have is the junior forwards they seem to preference are the smaller mobile types rather than the big hulks …I know they had Miller (and I still don’t know the real story that led to his exit) but he seems the exception …. Are my perceptions correct ?
 
Development needs to be top-down. Penrith being the exception to the rule. The top 30 must be made up of 20-25 first graders or players pushing for first grade. That flows down to where you are then able to meet players at their developmental level rather than push them through the grades in a sink or swim style of development.

Bulldogs have nailed the model.
 
The sooner the club just identifies as the Weststigers and amalgamate our junior clubs, HM SG etc, then the stronger and more competitive junior system. For a club that is suppose to have the crop of junior talent in a large district, only 1 male junior Team made finals this year. Flegg and KOE Cup are poor, this does not attract junior players, somebody has to look at the big picture and make hard decisions.
 
Tom Shines said:
I’m sure you are much more of an expert than me on the juniors …however one perception I have is the junior forwards they seem to preference are the smaller mobile types rather than the big hulks …I know they had Miller (and I still don’t know the real story that led to his exit) but he seems the exception …. Are my perceptions correct ?
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Spot on TS. This is one area we don't have balance. Yes it's important to have those smaller mobile workhorses with high leg speed but we need to balance that with some aggressive big powerful hulks with physical strength.
 
Blocker1963 said:
The sooner the club just identifies as the Weststigers and amalgamate our junior clubs, HM SG etc, then the stronger and more competitive junior system. For a club that is suppose to have the crop of junior talent in a large district, only 1 male junior Team made finals this year. Flegg and KOE Cup are poor, this does not attract junior players, somebody has to look at the big picture and make hard decisions.
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These kids live in totally different places out west and inner west you can't amalgamate them.
 
To be honest if I was Shannon Gallant, one kid who I'd be making sure is signed up for the long term is Riley Oitmann.

Not only is he one of our juniors, he has so many attributes we lack right through the grades - explosive speed off-the-mark, fast over a distance too, skilful, very good kicking game, goal kicker, good cover defender and has x-factor. Yes he is small in height & stature but there are a lot of good fullbacks nowadays your smaller electric types.

He also played A Grade on the weekend for Camden Rams on the wing so is getting used to playing against men.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
To be honest if I was Shannon Gallant, one kid who I'd be making sure is signed up for the long term is Riley Oitmann.

Not only is he one of our juniors, he has so many attributes we lack right through the grades - explosive speed off-the-mark, fast over a distance too, skilful, very good kicking game, goal kicker, good cover defender and has x-factor. Yes he is small in height & stature but there are a lot of good fullbacks nowadays your smaller electric types.

He also played A Grade on the weekend for Camden Rams on the wing so is getting used to playing against men.
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We will probably let him go like we did Pap
BlackWhiteGold said:
To be honest if I was Shannon Gallant, one kid who I'd be making sure is signed up for the long term is Riley Oitmann.

Not only is he one of our juniors, he has so many attributes we lack right through the grades - explosive speed off-the-mark, fast over a distance too, skilful, very good kicking game, goal kicker, good cover defender and has x-factor. Yes he is small in height & stature but there are a lot of good fullbacks nowadays your smaller electric types.

He also played A Grade on the weekend for Camden Rams on the wing so is getting used to playing against men.
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We will
BlackWhiteGold said:
To be honest if I was Shannon Gallant, one kid who I'd be making sure is signed up for the long term is Riley Oitmann.

Not only is he one of our juniors, he has so many attributes we lack right through the grades - explosive speed off-the-mark, fast over a distance too, skilful, very good kicking game, goal kicker, good cover defender and has x-factor. Yes he is small in height & stature but there are a lot of good fullbacks nowadays your smaller electric types.

He also played A Grade on the weekend for Camden Rams on the wing so is getting used to playing against men.
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We will probably let him go because he is to small like Papenhausen. That worked out well.
 
Tom Shines said:
Other than Makisini…. Who are the juniors to be excited about who have not yet made their NRL debut ? I can’t say I’m hearing a lot of names tbh …

There should be a laundry list due to come through right considering we have been a development club for a while now ?
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Phoenix Godinet , Jared Heywood , Lachlan Browderlow , tino Tavana , tapau Moors , Logan Brookes
 
TigerNeddyK said:
Phoenix Godinet , Jared Heywood , Lachlan Browderlow , tino Tavana , tapau Moors , Logan Brookes
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Broaderlow has gone from NSW cup last year to Flegg this year which is not a good sign. Godinet is managed by Moses.

It's pretty bare if those are the names. We have one of the biggest catchment areas, but it appears they are playing other sports.
 
weststigerman said:
Broaderlow has gone from NSW cup last year to Flegg this year which is not a good sign. Godinet is managed by Moses.

It's pretty bare if those are the names. We have one of the biggest catchment areas, but it appears they are playing other sports.
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Yeah Broederlow has some defensive deficiencies he needs to fix up to progress. Godinet is a couple of years away to develop his body enough for backrow but is a great prospect.

The twin Taotua brothers Max & Mitch should be high priority - our best in Flegg this year.

We have just signed Xavier Tauaifaiga's brother to a pathways contract too so the brotherly love is expanding. I'll post it in the pathways thread.
 
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