Jock Madden #244

He goes fine . He does his job . Makes his tackles , but needs help with bringing down big bodies . If your point is they’re one and the same , then you’re wrong . Madden needs help always . Rarely completes one on ones, and is caught arm grabbing way more than an nrl player should be .
Most of the time I am wrong.. just play what's in front of me....
In saying that... I believe Madden was part of stopping that rampaging Canterbury forward a couple of minutes before full time.... with help

So yes... in essence he goes fine....

The kick for touches are diabolical.

And according to rhe record books he plays better alongside Adam than Luai.

What do you make from that?
 
The biggest difference was getting our numbers right in defence. Only once did they make a break because of this and it wasn’t a numbers issue , rather Seyfarth has lost all ability to play long minutes on an edge .
All thier points came from really poor defensive misses . Jock is horrendous defensively .
It’s beyond a joke a really . Everyone around him has to help him , as well as thier own man .
The sooner AD is back , the better .
Madden does more defensive work than Doueihi does.
 
Madden does more defensive work than Doueihi does.
Missing tackles and then chasing them down is a weird way to reframe like you just did .
I find these types of conversations mental . So many of you are so desperate to have a prototype half that you’re willing to literally not see any of the person flaws .
 
Missing tackles and then chasing them down is a weird way to reframe like you just did .
I find these types of conversations mental . So many of you are so desperate to have a prototype half that you’re willing to literally not see any of the person flaws .
All I know is that Madden was involved in our first 3 tries. He is always in the action and he is getting better with every game. Both Jock and Adam have played 8 games each in the halves to date. I know stats don’t tell the whole story but they are interesting just the same.
 
Absolutely. Adam has a smaller
I will do my best. Adam has a smaller head than Luai. Therefore Adam and Jock work better together - both play str8 also
Does that make any sense at all TS?
AD has a smaller head then Luai?

Is that including the Hair maine?

Seriously that's some curls the guy has.
 
Missing tackles and then chasing them down is a weird way to reframe like you just did .
I find these types of conversations mental . So many of you are so desperate to have a prototype half that you’re willing to literally not see any of the person flaws .
I hate bringing Voldemort back up, but we did this before.

We looked at our halfback and realised he was a turnstyle. So we got him tackling, and tackling...

He never learned the game and many including me reckoned he wasn't a halfback. But he did stop being such a turnstyle.


So I ask, do we get Madden tackling more and focusing on that? Yes a bit.
But we also want him to be able to steer the side around the park.

I see Madden's flaws, I also see some strengths. Do we try to fix the flaws? or develop his strengths?
Why can't our bloody large forward pack defend in the middle like they should?
 
I hate bringing Voldemort back up, but we did this before.

We looked at our halfback and realised he was a turnstyle. So we got him tackling, and tackling...

He never learned the game and many including me reckoned he wasn't a halfback. But he did stop being such a turnstyle.


So I ask, do we get Madden tackling more and focusing on that? Yes a bit.
But we also want him to be able to steer the side around the park.

I see Madden's flaws, I also see some strengths. Do we try to fix the flaws? or develop his strengths?
Why can't our bloody large forward pack defend in the middle like they should?
What ? Mate it’s nrl , there’s enough hours in the day for all of the above. The idea that they’re mutually exclusive is a fallacy . I’m not asking for Gillmeister or Nigel plum here . I’m asking for when you make contact you stick . And if you do get beat , much like Api , you’re forcing him into coverage .
Seyfarth is another one . His missions he weekend , when he had a hold of them is inexcusable .
It’s nrl , you simply arnt going to make all your tackles . But there’s a difference between missing a tackle but effecting an outcome , and missing a tackle which leads to points / momentum shifts.
 
All I know is that Madden was involved in our first 3 tries. He is always in the action and he is getting better with every game. Both Jock and Adam have played 8 games each in the halves to date. I know stats don’t tell the whole story but they are interesting just the same.
I knew it ! You’re not even looking at the other side of the ball , and shoehorning a concept to fit your narrative. Every single one of those tries would have been scored if AD was at half .
This is exactly what I’m talking about . People did it with Brooks , they did it with / against Bula . When AD was the saviour , and then again when he wasn’t .
you spend 50% of most games without the ball . It is simply obvious that defence is just as important .
 
I knew it ! You’re not even looking at the other side of the ball , and shoehorning a concept to fit your narrative. Every single one of those tries would have been scored if AD was at half .
This is exactly what I’m talking about . People did it with Brooks , they did it with / against Bula . When AD was the saviour , and then again when he wasn’t .
you spend 50% of most games without the ball . It is simply obvious that defence is just as important .
Try sticking with the facts if you really believe in your argument. I'm not saying Adam is not good for the team, he's a clutch player. But at times he is a bit of a hog when he should have more faith in those outside and the stats back up this point. It's still a team game.
 
Try sticking with the facts if you really believe in your argument. I'm not saying Adam is not good for the team, he's a clutch player. But at times he is a bit of a hog when he should have more faith in those outside and the stats back up this point. It's still a team game.
What ? Do some of you guys have a lobotomy , when your favourites are/ arnt playing .
Seriously if AD was on the field , we would have put 30 on them .
And I’ve been a huge critic of him over the years . Especially defensively ( see a pattern here ) . But I’ve also always said he has origin level potential if he hardened up . And realised he’s massive . Which is exactly what was going to happen if he didn’t get injured . There’s no way Burton gets picked ahead of him .
But this Luke fascination with a little guy who can’t kick for power , makes too many errors , and ultimately can’t tackle … because why ? We look good in block shape ?
BLOCK SHAPE DOES NOT WORK IN ORIGIN AND FINALS footy . Wednesday was case in point of this . So you need guys who like thier nose through and create other ways . And the sooner your team makes that style of footy , apart of those overall style , the more chance they have of being successful. The panthers are another huge example of this . Only this year have they really gone balls deep for the block shape . Previously it was grind it out kick to the corners , short kicks behind and offloads .
Anyways you’re wrong I’m right . I know it .. I don’t even know why I’m arguing other than frustration at NFI opinions influencing others .
Go ahead mate . I’m an arsehole , you’re awesome … cool . When madden gets dropped when ad comes back … it will be because of a conspiracy . Or next year when Javon and Latu go right past him … the nrl won’t be fair ….
 
The biggest difference was getting our numbers right in defence. Only once did they make a break because of this and it wasn’t a numbers issue , rather Seyfarth has lost all ability to play long minutes on an edge .
All thier points came from really poor defensive misses . Jock is horrendous defensively .
It’s beyond a joke a really . Everyone around him has to help him , as well as thier own man .
The sooner AD is back , the better .
Yes, Jock is not great defensively. However on the weekend all of the Dogs tries were scored on the opposite side of the field.
 
What ? Mate it’s nrl , there’s enough hours in the day for all of the above. The idea that they’re mutually exclusive is a fallacy . I’m not asking for Gillmeister or Nigel plum here . I’m asking for when you make contact you stick . And if you do get beat , much like Api , you’re forcing him into coverage .
Seyfarth is another one . His missions he weekend , when he had a hold of them is inexcusable .
It’s nrl , you simply arnt going to make all your tackles . But there’s a difference between missing a tackle but effecting an outcome , and missing a tackle which leads to points / momentum shifts.
Huge difference between Seyfarth or anyone in the front row missing tackles or not slowing down the play at contact vs a halfback not being able to tackle.

I just wonder, LB we really trained him up not to be a turnstyle and get his defense under control. Well he did, but he never developed as a halfback.

Ofcourse we should expect our halfback to be able to tackle when needed. At least hamper the guy a bit till more defenders can come.

Ofcourse we don't expect our halfback to be in the wars like Liam Fulton or Nigel Plum... Tommy R was a once only. Man Nigel Plum... I hate to think how he is going in retirement.

We do need our halfback focused NR1 on kicking, positioning the team and leading the attack.
Yes there are hours where they can up their defense. I just want them doing the halfback job first and getting the tackling right second.
 
Huge difference between Seyfarth or anyone in the front row missing tackles or not slowing down the play at contact vs a halfback not being able to tackle.

I just wonder, LB we really trained him up not to be a turnstyle and get his defense under control. Well he did, but he never developed as a halfback.

Ofcourse we should expect our halfback to be able to tackle when needed. At least hamper the guy a bit till more defenders can come.

Ofcourse we don't expect our halfback to be in the wars like Liam Fulton or Nigel Plum... Tommy R was a once only. Man Nigel Plum... I hate to think how he is going in retirement.

We do need our halfback focused NR1 on kicking, positioning the team and leading the attack.
Yes there are hours where they can up their defense. I just want them doing the halfback job first and getting the tackling right second.
There’s no difference . Each has a job to do . The only allowance is on contact and losing ground . But actually initiating first contact with your shoulders , and giving your teammates an opportunity to help you effect a tackle . Sorry but there’s no difference .
Seyfarth dropping off tackles after getting a hold of them is also unforgivable .
These are standards . The things you walk past are the things you accept . If you make allowances for one person you make individual allowances for others .
People make mistakes . And no one should be crucified for mistakes as shit happens . But I’m not talking about mistakes I’m talking about technique .
People bring up Reynolds . But Reynolds knows he needs to jam up early and limit the time and space of the guys running at him . You always see his edge move up quickly . And when they don’t he gets exposed . But he’s learnt to get up early. . Madden has to do the same.
As for we need our halfback doing one thing or another . That’s nonsense . The game is 50% defence . He needs to simply not be a liability in defence . Thats literally the standard . Of which he’s not meeting . And it shits me to be honest how many people are willing to make excuses and allowances because really when they see him they see something familiar and it’s reassuring . “Conventional half” .
I couldn’t give a shit about that personally . It’s nrl . The best League comp in the world . Everything you’re saying is Sydney Cup level . At nrl the expectations are and have to be higher. I think a centre who is comfortable at defending at right centre like averillo , and really a confident non injured toa , should help here .
I’m huge on defence . I don’t mean big hits . I mean moving up getting your body weight lower driving through your arse , initiating contact , getting a hold of them , holding him up , allowing the second man in to collapse around the ball , third man in to get his legs / torso , spin him on his back , wrestling him on the ground driving your weight into his sternum so he can’t move , looking up at the ref to say get him off him twice . Then get up.
It doesn’t always mean your going to not get driven back as first contact , but if you initiate first contact , and at least look to have some control over the ruck , the blocked around you can help with the rest. There’s a couple of guys who forget thier technique under fatigue , which is understandable , I never made it to nrl or even cup , all I’m saying is to improve consistency around this from guys like madden and Seyfarth even Fonua and Sione is the only way this team can do damage in September and October .
 
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I didnt say they will drop him mate. Just saying that when he leaves Latu will step in.
You sure about that? He should be stepping in now. He has before and proven he’s up to it. I see no value in why he’s playing in the middle. Especially atm with Doueihi out. Keep hearing he’s better than Galvin, so why isn’t getting the opportunity?
 
What ? Do some of you guys have a lobotomy , when your favourites are/ arnt playing .
Seriously if AD was on the field , we would have put 30 on them .
And I’ve been a huge critic of him over the years . Especially defensively ( see a pattern here ) . But I’ve also always said he has origin level potential if he hardened up . And realised he’s massive . Which is exactly what was going to happen if he didn’t get injured . There’s no way Burton gets picked ahead of him .
But this Luke fascination with a little guy who can’t kick for power , makes too many errors , and ultimately can’t tackle … because why ? We look good in block shape ?
BLOCK SHAPE DOES NOT WORK IN ORIGIN AND FINALS footy . Wednesday was case in point of this . So you need guys who like thier nose through and create other ways . And the sooner your team makes that style of footy , apart of those overall style , the more chance they have of being successful. The panthers are another huge example of this . Only this year have they really gone balls deep for the block shape . Previously it was grind it out kick to the corners , short kicks behind and offloads .
Anyways you’re wrong I’m right . I know it .. I don’t even know why I’m arguing other than frustration at NFI opinions influencing others .
Go ahead mate . I’m an arsehole , you’re awesome … cool . When madden gets dropped when ad comes back … it will be because of a conspiracy . Or next year when Javon and Latu go right past him … the nrl won’t be fair ….
Lestrange, if I may be allowed to have an opinion, I reckon there are 2 equally important facets of halfback play.
1. Execute Coach’s game plan, keeping teammates on point.
2. Count the numbers, constantly being aware of opponents weaknesses in defence and our corresponding strengths in attack, and distribute accordingly.
Benji gave Adam the 7 while playing him 3 passes wide. I could easily build a story around that, but I figure you’re smart enough to understand.
 
Lestrange, if I may be allowed to have an opinion, I reckon there are 2 equally important facets of halfback play.
1. Execute Coach’s game plan, keeping teammates on point.
2. Count the numbers, constantly being aware of opponents weaknesses in defence and our corresponding strengths in attack, and distribute accordingly.
Benji gave Adam the 7 while playing him 3 passes wide. I could easily build a story around that, but I figure you’re smart enough to understand.
He didn’t though . The faithful guys nailed it this pass episode when they said the truth . “Benji ball “ was originally built around Galvin . Then when he left , AD stepped back up into the role , and the rest is history.
AD best asset is running between the 3 and 4 man , and long kicking . Creativity is left to the other 3 spine members . It more than works . It works really well . I also think AD iis a bit of a jig . But I really don’t care who scores the tries as long as they’re scored . This isn’t a video game .
 

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