Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

We need a genuine organising halfback or hooker. For a brief period we had Hastings until our staff thought it was a good idea to move him to lock and then boot him from the club altogether for Bateman.

Sezer kind of got us around the park ok early on and then mailed it in when he knew he wasn't being re-signed.

Before that? Genuinely think the last proper organising half we had might have been Mat Head? Even in 2010/2011 we were winning off the back of individually brilliant players rather than structure.

Until we address this issue, we're gonna go nowhere. We don't build to anything, half our sets are just one out runs from our backs and in attacking zones we have no clue what we're doing. We're lucky to even get a kick away half the time.
 
I genuinely cannot fathom the pitchforks for Starford To'a.

he is injured. he is therefore going to make mistakes. blame the coach for playing him busted, and the admin of past and present for our horrendous depth in the outside backs.

at his best he is up there with the best centres in the competition. his stats from the beginning of the season indicate as such.

fingers crossed he gets the rest he so desperately needs this week.
 
To'a is immensely talented but at this point you have to genuinely question whether his body can hold up at this level.

I've been one of his staunchest defenders and he's easily our most dangerous attacking player, but what good is a guy who's healthy for a handful of games and then busted for the rest?
 
Kelce68 said:
100% Sukkar should be moved to the middle. He is strong in contact, is very consistent, decent at the wrestle, is a far stronger carry than people give him credit for, and is still very young.

I think he can go the Sam McIntyre mould, develop into a strong, consistent, reliable middle by his mid 20s and offer value in the squad, much like Sam has at the Cowboys.

But he'll need to do 2/3 seasons of it in Cup first. He's also bigger than his stats suggest, so I'd say at some point this year he's grown, which is not surprising considering he turned 21 in May.
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I agree. He's another more lumbering type who will be better suited as a middle in the future and IMO will be a decent middle as he has good workrate, contact, leg drive & an offload. But Sukkar, Twal & Seyfarth will all be similar type middles with Sukkar a higher ceiling.
 
IronFist said:
Jett Cleary is the same age as Da Silva but hasn't played any first grade at all. He was in Jersey Flegg up until 6 weeks ago. They're gradually exposing him to higher grades, developing consistency and combinations with the players around him which assists his development. There is progression in his development.

I think the impatience with Da Silva was that he played NRL regularly at 18, now he's 20 and he was playing reserve grade at the club for 6 weeks, and an NRL game just before he left. Supporters are saying that he should develop in the lower grades but that should've happened in 2023 and 2024!

The development of the young players at Wests Tigers is atrocious. They're signed to top 30/dev as sg ball players, train with the NRL squad all week, then sent back like mercenaries to play SG Ball. They then play a game or two in flegg or reserve grade and make their debut in NRL, then sent back to a lower grade a for a week, then play two NRL games, then back to Flegg/reserve grade again, etc.

Sheens and McDonnell did most of these players, and the club itself, a disservice by signing so many 18 year olds to top 30 and development deals. It has been managed extremely poorly. Most of them should've been train and trial, with a focus on development rather than NRL training and games. You could imagine the standard and intensity of NRL training itself when 1/4 to a 1/3 of the players are under 20. Is it a surprise the club is still struggling to compete?
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Yes this. I noticed when the Dev deals were first introduced a lot of clubs used it to give their experienced back ups a better pay day whilst still having their first choice players making up the top 30.
 
Lukic said:
To'a is immensely talented but at this point you have to genuinely question whether his body can hold up at this level.

I've been one of his staunchest defenders and he's easily our most dangerous attacking player, but what good is a guy who's healthy for a handful of games and then busted for the rest?
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it's simply a niggling elbow problem, likely a hyperextension. picked it up against the Chooks.

we were fighting for our season up until last week and with that in mind, I'm sure both player and coach wanted him to play given his importance to the side, but he still should've been rested.

the problem is that we don't have the depth to cover him. it's why I think we need a Mawene Hiroti or a Braidon Burns.
 
gregjm87 said:
He's no comparing his play style, he is comparing his physical attributes. His speed and agility isn't going to suddenly improve with experience. He may learn to better use what he is equipped with but the assets will remain the same. I think he can do a job on an edge but I also believe he is better suited to the middle.
For all the praise of how well he performed last year (and he did perform well for such a young forward, in his first full year, in a terribly performed team) he was still average at best. He led the comp for try causes and averaged less than 100m a game. He has gone backwards this year (no doubt due to opposition having done more study on him) despite supposedly having an elite half inside him.
If kept in the backrow I've no doubt he will further develop into a quality player. I just think he has far more upside as a middle. He'd hardly be the first front rower who got his start on an edge, Papallii, Tapine, JFH, Kaloamatangi, Taumalolo...the list goes on.
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Improvement in young players is not necessarily linear … we’re their problems last season with his speed and agility?

For a 20 yr old in a wooden spoon team to play in his first games at even an “average “ level is remarkable

It’s way too early to be giving up on him yet at this position … this time last year good judges were saying he had an Origin ceiling
 
jrtiger said:
it's simply a niggling elbow problem, likely a hyperextension. picked it up against the Chooks.

we were fighting for our season up until last week and with that in mind, I'm sure both player and coach wanted him to play given his importance to the side, but he still should've been rested.

the problem is that we don't have the depth to cover him. it's why I think we need a Mawene Hiroti or a Braidon Burns.
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He ends half our games limping. He was run down easily on the intercept he got this weekend whereas he was burning quicker players at the start of the year.

He's just very injury prone. This is the longest run he's had in fg I feel and even then he's approach Ken Maumalo levels of being wheelchaired on and off the field just for game day.
 
IronFist said:
Jett Cleary is the same age as Da Silva but hasn't played any first grade at all. He was in Jersey Flegg up until 6 weeks ago. They're gradually exposing him to higher grades, developing consistency and combinations with the players around him which assists his development. There is progression in his development.

I think the impatience with Da Silva was that he played NRL regularly at 18, now he's 20 and he was playing reserve grade at the club for 6 weeks, and an NRL game just before he left. Supporters are saying that he should develop in the lower grades but that should've happened in 2023 and 2024!

The development of the young players at Wests Tigers is atrocious. They're signed to top 30/dev as sg ball players, train with the NRL squad all week, then sent back like mercenaries to play SG Ball. They then play a game or two in flegg or reserve grade and make their debut in NRL, then sent back to a lower grade a for a week, then play two NRL games, then back to Flegg/reserve grade again, etc.

Sheens and McDonnell did most of these players, and the club itself, a disservice by signing so many 18 year olds to top 30 and development deals. It has been managed extremely poorly. Most of them should've been train and trial, with a focus on development rather than NRL training and games. You could imagine the standard and intensity of NRL training itself when 1/4 to a 1/3 of the players are under 20. Is it a surprise the club is still struggling to compete?
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richo is fixing that
 
IronFist said:
Jett Cleary is the same age as Da Silva but hasn't played any first grade at all. He was in Jersey Flegg up until 6 weeks ago. They're gradually exposing him to higher grades, developing consistency and combinations with the players around him which assists his development. There is progression in his development.

I think the impatience with Da Silva was that he played NRL regularly at 18, now he's 20 and he was playing reserve grade at the club for 6 weeks, and an NRL game just before he left. Supporters are saying that he should develop in the lower grades but that should've happened in 2023 and 2024!

The development of the young players at Wests Tigers is atrocious. They're signed to top 30/dev as sg ball players, train with the NRL squad all week, then sent back like mercenaries to play SG Ball. They then play a game or two in flegg or reserve grade and make their debut in NRL, then sent back to a lower grade a for a week, then play two NRL games, then back to Flegg/reserve grade again, etc.

Sheens and McDonnell did most of these players, and the club itself, a disservice by signing so many 18 year olds to top 30 and development deals. It has been managed extremely poorly. Most of them should've been train and trial, with a focus on development rather than NRL training and games. You could imagine the standard and intensity of NRL training itself when 1/4 to a 1/3 of the players are under 20. Is it a surprise the club is still struggling to compete?
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In hindsight now, the period 2020 - 2024 has been an absolute clusterfu*k for the club. A PhD student should do their doctorate on how not to run an elite sporting team based on the WT over this period. And Lee, the HBG & Justin should hang their heads in shame for many of their key decisions in this period.

Whilst many of us heralded the appointment of Sheens after Madge wore out the playing group led by sooks like Joey Leulia & Nofa, I for one clenched my teeth when vision emerged of Sheens returning to Concord into the old demountable footy offices flanked by his best mate Warren McDonnell. Unfortunately nostalgia got the better of common sense and we've paid the price.

I cannot think of one good thing McDonnell did for the club in his latest tenure. Anyone?
 
jrtiger said:
I genuinely cannot fathom the pitchforks for Starford To'a.

he is injured. he is therefore going to make mistakes. blame the coach for playing him busted, and the admin of past and present for our horrendous depth in the outside backs.

at his best he is up there with the best centres in the competition. his stats from the beginning of the season indicate as such.

fingers crossed he gets the rest he so desperately needs this week.
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I don't understand it either. He and Turuva had a great combination in the first half of the season. Since then there has been constant reshuffles around him, with Seyfarth, Galvin and Turuva either leaving or changing positions, and then add in the injury he seems to be carrying plus the weird fullback thing we do with him. It's no wonder his form has dropped off
 
Odessa said:
In what way? They keep copping blame for someone else's mistakes
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In the way that they signed up the likes of Webster-Mansfield, Laulili'i, Miller, Fa'agutu, Tumeth, Matamua, et al, to long-term, Top 30- (or at least dev- ) guaranteed positions long term. The messaging around the likes of TDS and Galvin ought to be brought into questions too as the attitudes upon their arrival on the first grade scene have been called into question a lot lately. You could even work your way into the 2nd tier list of potentials from 2/3 years ago. The other Saukurus, Dillon and those other, forgettable names, etc.

I've heard from more than one source that they were promising the world to this wave of kids and backed it up with long deals for young players who, for the most part, either won't ever make it or will be in the 1st grade setup way too early.

It has been a contributing, not sole, factor in why our squad has been so far out of whack.
 
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jrtiger said:
it's simply a niggling elbow problem, likely a hyperextension. picked it up against the Chooks.

we were fighting for our season up until last week and with that in mind, I'm sure both player and coach wanted him to play given his importance to the side, but he still should've been rested.

the problem is that we don't have the depth to cover him. it's why I think we need a Mawene Hiroti or a Braidon Burns.
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Yep imo the medical & coaching team have been doing him and the team a disservice by playing him when we have Mapapalangi or Naden as backups. Defensively he was very good in the first 6 or so rounds, even in contact, but I feel the 5-10% he has lost in strength/confidence has led to some crucial misses this past month plus he doesn't have the power in his fend.

I get most players play with niggles through a season but when it's noticeable how it has affected To'a, Sam Fainu, Royce Hunt this season, I just don't think we've made good decisions to play them.

Anyway happy to proven wrong if Peter Moussa is out there to respond?
 
IronFist said:
Jett Cleary is the same age as Da Silva but hasn't played any first grade at all. He was in Jersey Flegg up until 6 weeks ago. They're gradually exposing him to higher grades, developing consistency and combinations with the players around him which assists his development. There is progression in his development.

I think the impatience with Da Silva was that he played NRL regularly at 18, now he's 20 and he was playing reserve grade at the club for 6 weeks, and an NRL game just before he left. Supporters are saying that he should develop in the lower grades but that should've happened in 2023 and 2024!

The development of the young players at Wests Tigers is atrocious. They're signed to top 30/dev as sg ball players, train with the NRL squad all week, then sent back like mercenaries to play SG Ball. They then play a game or two in flegg or reserve grade and make their debut in NRL, then sent back to a lower grade a for a week, then play two NRL games, then back to Flegg/reserve grade again, etc.

Sheens and McDonnell did most of these players, and the club itself, a disservice by signing so many 18 year olds to top 30 and development deals. It has been managed extremely poorly. Most of them should've been train and trial, with a focus on development rather than NRL training and games. You could imagine the standard and intensity of NRL training itself when 1/4 to a 1/3 of the players are under 20. Is it a surprise the club is still struggling to compete?
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I agree - what we were doing was wrong. We are suffering now from the second and third order effects of decsions made by Sheens. Having said that, we were also building from a very low base and Sheens and MacDonnell no doubt had good intentions. We don't know if they had a plan to transition from their initial strategy, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

Richo is taking a much less agressive approach but we won't see the benefits of this for another couple of years.

The point I was trying to make is that we will not be in a postion to develop players properly until we achieve sustained success. At that time there will not be a constant push to move players around and blood juniors. We all want success tomorrow, but the reality is that executing a plan to drag you from three wooden spoons to the top takes time.
 
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BlackWhiteGold said:
I agree. He's another more lumbering type who will be better suited as a middle in the future and IMO will be a decent middle as he has good workrate, contact, leg drive & an offload. But Sukkar, Twal & Seyfarth will all be similar type middles with Sukkar a higher ceiling.
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Yep. I think Sukkar is definitely an NRL squad player I want to keep, but in the middle. He is a very well-rounded, versatile young player.

Also tackles at 94% on an edge in first grade, well above the best in that position in the game, including the likes of Hudson Young and Crichton.
 
IronFist said:
www.foxsports.com.au

Warriors statement as Cleary 2.0 explodes; Sexton all class after NRL axing: Reserves Wrap

Cleary 2.0 truly arrives in huge statement; axed Dog’s classy response: Reserves Wrap
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

How a decent run club administer their contracts and development.

He'd be top 30 as an 18 year old, and given the keys to the club straight out of SG Ball if he was at Wests Tigers.
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True but only because we're not constantly winning games. Once we develop that sustained success we crave the up and coming players will have to bide their time and really earn their spot.
 
jrtiger said:
it's simply a niggling elbow problem, likely a hyperextension. picked it up against the Chooks.

we were fighting for our season up until last week and with that in mind, I'm sure both player and coach wanted him to play given his importance to the side, but he still should've been rested.

the problem is that we don't have the depth to cover him. it's why I think we need a Mawene Hiroti or a Braidon Burns.
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I’ve noticed this, do you think it’s been since he basically dislocated his elbow to get the ball away to Charlie Stains for the try, It looked like a very awkward offload?.?
 
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