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1,6,7,9
- Thread starter Sabre
- Start date
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Vicious said:@hybrid_tiger said:There is absolutely no way in hell that Moltzen is a better support player than McKinnon, not a chance.
McKinnon is ALWAYS sniffing around the ruck, whether it be up the guts or our wide. Whenever there is a slight chance of an offload he is always there.
Moltzen runs wide occasionally, go watch him play and tell me when he is ever offering support in the middle of the field. I'll tell you the answer: never. He runs off his bread and butter Marshall and occasionally Lui. And only ever when we are in the attacking zone.
This idea that Moltzen is a superstar attacking player that we must somehow fit into the side at all costs is simply a myth. He is not that good.
McKinnon has had an ongoing groin problem for 3 years, what makes you think he`s going to overcome it anytime soon?
What groin problem ???? Hamstring maybe But whats that got to do with support play ,catching high balls all those things a slightly competent fullback does ??
hybrid_tiger
Well-known member
Now you are changing your argument Vicious.
McKinnon does have injury problems that are well documented, I have never denied this. However when he is playing he is ten times the support player Tim Moltzen is.
McKinnon is not a long term option for us at fullback, however he is the best option we have this year when fit.
And you can say that other teams would laugh when he is at fullback, but I can guarantee you that Brisbane would have been licking their lips on Friday night when our team was finalised - after all any side in the comp would love to come up against a fullback who gets scared everytime a bomb goes up. And this showed as soon as Lockyer and co. got the chance they sent the ball into the heavens.
Do you think Brisbane would have put up so many bombs if we had McKinnon at fullback?
McKinnon does have injury problems that are well documented, I have never denied this. However when he is playing he is ten times the support player Tim Moltzen is.
McKinnon is not a long term option for us at fullback, however he is the best option we have this year when fit.
And you can say that other teams would laugh when he is at fullback, but I can guarantee you that Brisbane would have been licking their lips on Friday night when our team was finalised - after all any side in the comp would love to come up against a fullback who gets scared everytime a bomb goes up. And this showed as soon as Lockyer and co. got the chance they sent the ball into the heavens.
Do you think Brisbane would have put up so many bombs if we had McKinnon at fullback?
@happy tiger said:@Vicious said:@hybrid_tiger said:There is absolutely no way in hell that Moltzen is a better support player than McKinnon, not a chance.
McKinnon is ALWAYS sniffing around the ruck, whether it be up the guts or our wide. Whenever there is a slight chance of an offload he is always there.
Moltzen runs wide occasionally, go watch him play and tell me when he is ever offering support in the middle of the field. I'll tell you the answer: never. He runs off his bread and butter Marshall and occasionally Lui. And only ever when we are in the attacking zone.
This idea that Moltzen is a superstar attacking player that we must somehow fit into the side at all costs is simply a myth. He is not that good.
McKinnon has had an ongoing groin problem for 3 years, what makes you think he`s going to overcome it anytime soon?
What groin problem ???? Hamstring maybe But whats that got to do with support play ,catching high balls all those things a slightly competent fullback does ??
Yes hamstring problem. What`s it got to do with it? Even when he gets on the field he`s lost all of his speed because of it, that`s what. You simply cannot expect to have a slow fullback and be competitive against good sides in the NRL. If you could get away with it other sides would be playing it safe also.
It was ok 20 years ago, but the game has changed and the fullback now plays a major part in a sides attack.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
So Mackinnons only fault at fullback is his speed List me all of Moltzen faults at fullback As they say Pros vs Cons . Then still tell yourself that Moltzen should be fullback seriously
@hybrid_tiger said:Now you are changing your argument Vicious.
McKinnon does have injury problems that are well documented, I have never denied this. However when he is playing he is ten times the support player Tim Moltzen is.
McKinnon is not a long term option for us at fullback, however he is the best option we have this year when fit.
And you can say that other teams would laugh when he is at fullback, but I can guarantee you that Brisbane would have been licking their lips on Friday night when our team was finalised - after all any side in the comp would love to come up against a fullback who s*** his pants everytime a bomb goes up. And this showed as soon as Lockyer and co. got the chance they sent the ball into the heavens.
Do you think Brisbane would have put up so many bombs if we had McKinnon at fullback?
Most likely not, but do you believe we would have beaten the Broncos if McKinnon was fit enough to have taken his place at fullback instead of Moltzen?
McKinnon would have scored the second try that Moltzen scored, but certainly wouldn`t have scored the first try as that was from sheer speed.
There has to be some hope that Moltzen can start leaping for and taking the high balls & also some hope that he may start running the ball back hard from kick returns, but there is no hope at this stage of his career that McKinnon will ever get his speed back.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@hybrid_tiger said:Now you are changing your argument Vicious.
McKinnon does have injury problems that are well documented, I have never denied this. However when he is playing he is ten times the support player Tim Moltzen is.
McKinnon is not a long term option for us at fullback, however he is the best option we have this year when fit.
And you can say that other teams would laugh when he is at fullback, but I can guarantee you that Brisbane would have been licking their lips on Friday night when our team was finalised - after all any side in the comp would love to come up against a fullback who s*** his pants everytime a bomb goes up. And this showed as soon as Lockyer and co. got the chance they sent the ball into the heavens.
Do you think Brisbane would have put up so many bombs if we had McKinnon at fullback?
Not at MacKinnon anyway maybe Utai
@Vicious said:@hybrid_tiger said:Now you are changing your argument Vicious.
McKinnon does have injury problems that are well documented, I have never denied this. However when he is playing he is ten times the support player Tim Moltzen is.
McKinnon is not a long term option for us at fullback, however he is the best option we have this year when fit.
And you can say that other teams would laugh when he is at fullback, but I can guarantee you that Brisbane would have been licking their lips on Friday night when our team was finalised - after all any side in the comp would love to come up against a fullback who s*** his pants everytime a bomb goes up. And this showed as soon as Lockyer and co. got the chance they sent the ball into the heavens.
Do you think Brisbane would have put up so many bombs if we had McKinnon at fullback?
Most likely not, but do you believe we would have beaten the Broncos if McKinnon was fit enough to have taken his place at fullback instead of Moltzen?
McKinnon would have scored the second try that Moltzen scored, but certainly wouldn`t have scored the first try as that was from sheer speed.
There has to be some hope that Moltzen can start leaping for and taking the high balls & also some hope that he may start running the ball back hard from kick returns, but there is no hope at this stage of his career that McKinnon will ever get his speed back.
To further add to this argument, why isn`t Jake Mullaney in the equation?
If you`ve seen him play you cannot deny that Mullaney is a very good support player.
hybrid_tiger
Well-known member
So you can't have a slow fullback, but you think it's ok to have a fullback who:
- Walks the ball back from kick returns
- Palms the ball off to other players because he does not like to be tackled
- Refuses to contest bombs
- Lets the ball bounce instead of putting his body on the line
- Has terrible defensive positioning
- Only offers support out wide when we are attacking close to the line
- Repeatedly gets trapped in goal due to being pedestrian in defense
- Shows a complete lack of urgency when we don't have the football
- Lets his head drop after one mistake due to mental fragility
- Shys from physical contact
Vicious what does Moltzen show at fullback that is so good we should ignore all the above issues?
- Walks the ball back from kick returns
- Palms the ball off to other players because he does not like to be tackled
- Refuses to contest bombs
- Lets the ball bounce instead of putting his body on the line
- Has terrible defensive positioning
- Only offers support out wide when we are attacking close to the line
- Repeatedly gets trapped in goal due to being pedestrian in defense
- Shows a complete lack of urgency when we don't have the football
- Lets his head drop after one mistake due to mental fragility
- Shys from physical contact
Vicious what does Moltzen show at fullback that is so good we should ignore all the above issues?
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Because he is about 18 months and 6-10 kgs away from being ready and his defence is dusty at the moment at best
@hybrid_tiger said:So you can't have a slow fullback, but you think it's ok to have a fullback who:
- Walks the ball back from kick returns
- Palms the ball off to other players because he does not like to be tackled
- Refuses to contest bombs
- Lets the ball bounce instead of putting his body on the line
- Has terrible defensive positioning
- Only offers support out wide when we are attacking close to the line
- Repeatedly gets trapped in goal due to being pedestrian in defense
- Shows a complete lack of urgency when we don't have the football
- Lets his head drop after one mistake due to mental fragility
- Shys from physical contact
Vicious what does Moltzen show at fullback that is so good we should ignore all the above issues?
Most I can`t argue with, but only offers support out wide when we are attacking close to the line? He hit the ball at speed INSIDE Robert Lui when scoring his first try against the Broncos.
McKinnon offers a safer option, no doubts about that, but a safe but slow fullback does not cut it either in the NRL in `2011.
Moltzen may not be the man for the job, but we need to find someone with sheer speed & attacking flair otherwise we are no hope of competing for the title this season.
The other 15 NRL sides realise this, I think deep down Tim Sheens realises this hence the reason he is trying to persist with Moltzen at fullback.
@happy tiger said:Because he is about 18 months and 6-10 kgs away from being ready and his defence is dusty at the moment at best
6-10 kgs away? There has been plenty of small top class fullbacks past & present. Going off this opinion Hodgo should never have played first grade.
1\. Moltzen/Mckinnon (undecided yet, basically a fight over experience or potential.)
6\. Marshall
7\. Lui
9\. Farah/Fulton (fulton to take over when injured *fingers crossed*
If you think moltzen isn't supporting around the ruck your watching the wrong game bud.
6\. Marshall
7\. Lui
9\. Farah/Fulton (fulton to take over when injured *fingers crossed*
@hybrid_tiger said:go watch him play and tell me when he is ever offering support in the middle of the field
If you think moltzen isn't supporting around the ruck your watching the wrong game bud.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Vicious said:@happy tiger said:Because he is about 18 months and 6-10 kgs away from being ready and his defence is dusty at the moment at best
6-10 kgs away? There has been plenty of small top class fullbacks past & present. Going off this opinion Hodgo should never have played first grade.
I think he will need extra size for his own confidence to handle it defensively
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@guesty123 said:1\. Moltzen/Mckinnon (undecided yet, basically a fight over experience or potential.)
6\. Marshall
7\. Lui
9\. Farah/Fulton (fulton to take over when injured *fingers crossed*
@hybrid_tiger said:go watch him play and tell me when he is ever offering support in the middle of the field
If you think moltzen isn't supporting around the ruck your watching the wrong game bud.
What potential does Moltzen show at fullback . Absolutely Zilch Oh sorry hes fast .
@happy tiger said:@tiger05 said:I think we saw it against the Broncos.
1\. Moltzen
6\. Benji
7\. Lui
9\. Farah
Moltzen will improve, Farah to stop taking the wrong option, Benji to get more involved and Lui to learn to defend and then we have the best 1,6,7 & 9 combo in the league.
Moltzen will not improve Get over it
MacKinnon\Brown
Benji
Lui
Farah
How simple is that
I agree with the part of this quote that says (unfortunately) **Tim won't improve**, he's on trainer wheels atm, so lets put Brown, who proved himself in the position- at the back end of last season,and see how we go :rant
@Muffstar said:Thats the reason Melbourne is doing well. They have probably had more changes and turmoil than most other clubs - self inflicted of course - but they have a very solid 1,7,9 and the young guy at 6 is doing very well too.
Not forgetting they have a fullback that is an attacking genius. I watched every minute of their game Vs the Panthers a few weeks back and their forwards got slightly outplayed. The Panthers definately won the battle of field position yet the brilliance of Melbournes attacking players saw them score long range tries which broke the Panthers heart. That`s how we play as well when we are on our game, remember `05 when we were regularly scoring 30 points or more per game and we had Hodgo at the back playing a major part in many long range tries?
Well that`s simply not possible with Wde McKinnon at the back, we need speed.
McKinnon has played his best years of footy, and I'm not sure he is any more than a replacement for the number 1 jersey in an emergency.
Moltzen has currently 2 problems. Firstly he is is recovering from a serious knee injury and this will take most of the season to gain confidence and get back into it. Anyone who thinks differently has never had a knee injury and has no idea. Secondly, he has not had any time at Number 1 so he can build combinations. You cant waltz into that spot and run as smooth as silk. Not happening.
Moltzen reads the game as good as anyone. Anyone who thinks differently is also kidding. He is better than a utility player. I personally think he is a fantastic 7, but would also make a fantastic number 1 where we need it.
Why hasn't he been jumping for the high ball lately? Lacks confidence with his knee and has not built communication with the wingers who incidentally have been changing every week. How you build confidence at the back with Lote, Ryan, Utai, Brown and a couple of others already used on the wing and we are only at round 8.
I think those bagging Moltzen will be eating their words come Round 22 onwards.
Moltzen has currently 2 problems. Firstly he is is recovering from a serious knee injury and this will take most of the season to gain confidence and get back into it. Anyone who thinks differently has never had a knee injury and has no idea. Secondly, he has not had any time at Number 1 so he can build combinations. You cant waltz into that spot and run as smooth as silk. Not happening.
Moltzen reads the game as good as anyone. Anyone who thinks differently is also kidding. He is better than a utility player. I personally think he is a fantastic 7, but would also make a fantastic number 1 where we need it.
Why hasn't he been jumping for the high ball lately? Lacks confidence with his knee and has not built communication with the wingers who incidentally have been changing every week. How you build confidence at the back with Lote, Ryan, Utai, Brown and a couple of others already used on the wing and we are only at round 8.
I think those bagging Moltzen will be eating their words come Round 22 onwards.
@Swordy said:I think those bagging Moltzen will be eating their words come Round 22 onwards.
He has already served up a two try serving of humble pie against the Broncos and I bet there will be a lot more.
