2019 Coaching saga -Thread

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I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.

This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.

As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

I dont think its about sabotage, its about if he can continue to effectively do the job that he was brought in to do, and that was rebuild our club. If the CEO is actively looking to replace him with two years to go on his contract - the man most responsible for employing him - that suggests that he is questioning his ability to do so - as far as Im concerned.

Given, he was only here until the end of 2020 , I don't see how it changes much. His tenure at the club would still be up in the air next year unless things went extremely well on the field.

In so far as our CEO looking for replacement's, I just see it as there are 2 qualified coaches being available or close to available and as I said, the club is just being pro-active…...which makes for a nice change. I don't see it that the club questions the coach's ability at all.
 
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I see it like this…..

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....

I agree with you True Tiger and I can't see why it couldn't work out this way either, **but the fact that our club (not the fans) is actively pursuing another coach for next season and beyond** means that the whole scenario is emotional and it seems that it has become untenable for Cleary to see out his contract here. It's not the just the constant media speculation and emotion shown by many of the supporters that we're hearing about, it's actually taking place for real at the club. Obviously, there is more to it than we may know.

Not fact yet spud….still speculation
 
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I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.

This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.

As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

Because the Broncos wouldn't want to lose young, good players such as TPJ, Oates etc. If they sacked Bennett immediately they would be forced to pay him out and more importantly probably lose TPJ, Oates etc who may/may not have clauses in their contracts allowing them to leave if Bennett isn't the coach.

People that think it will all be roses if Ivan coaches WT in 2019 and 2020 are kidding themselves. Fans will be rabidly wanting Ivan's head on a stake after 3 or 4 losses, the innuendo will damage our club immeasurably also. Th media are going to be all over our club once the losses pile up without a doubt.
Just cannot see 1 single positive of having Cleary coach us anymore.

The Bronco's may not want to lose players, but their decision to not keep Bennett past next year has made a few question staying on at the club. At this stage of the game, none of that is happening here and I just can't see it happening here.

Some fans have tinfoil hats on too tight, but even if all this current merry-go-round wasn't in play, if we didn't make the finals next year, IC's head would be on the chopping block. If we had a losing streak like the middle period of this season, again fans would be calling for his head.

I, personally, don't care whether he's here or not, I just don't think the sky will fall down even if he does see out his 2 years. That scenario is probably the very least likely option anyway. If he stays I'd expect it to be only for next year then we get Bennett.
 
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I see it like this…..

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....

I agree with you True Tiger and I can't see why it couldn't work out this way either, **but the fact that our club (not the fans) is actively pursuing another coach for next season and beyond** means that the whole scenario is emotional and it seems that it has become untenable for Cleary to see out his contract here. It's not the just the constant media speculation and emotion shown by many of the supporters that we're hearing about, it's actually taking place for real at the club. Obviously, there is more to it than we may know.

Not fact yet spud….still speculation

So it's not true, only paper talk? I thought our CEO had indicated they were chasing Bennett & Maguire?
 
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I havent heard a thing from Pascoe on the coaching for months…must be just more speculation.
Happy to be correceted

Nah you're probably right. It has been reported in the media as though someone from the club (Pascoe?) has actually stated it, but it may not even be true!
 
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I havent heard a thing from Pascoe on the coaching for months…must be just more speculation.
Happy to be correceted

Nah you're probably right. It has been reported in the media as though someone from the club (Pascoe?) has actually stated it, but it may not even be true!

Wasting your time mate, I can see it though :deadhorse:
 
1st team off the coaching merry-go-round is Manly. DT reporting 3 year deal for Des Hasler.
 
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This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.

As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

I dont think its about sabotage, its about if he can continue to effectively do the job that he was brought in to do, and that was rebuild our club. If the CEO is actively looking to replace him with two years to go on his contract - the man most responsible for employing him - that suggests that he is questioning his ability to do so - as far as Im concerned.

Given, he was only here until the end of 2020 , I don't see how it changes much. His tenure at the club would still be up in the air next year unless things went extremely well on the field.

In so far as our CEO looking for replacement's, I just see it as there are 2 qualified coaches being available or close to available and as I said, the club is just being pro-active…...which makes for a nice change. I don't see it that the club questions the coach's ability at all.

Might question the commitment to the Club though..
 
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1st team off the coaching merry-go-round is Manly. DT reporting 3 year deal for Des Hasler.

They’re not really apart of the merry go round. They’re an island to themselves. Who they appoint won’t have a domino affect on other clubs. The merry go round is us, Brisbane, Souths and Penrith.
 
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This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.

As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

Because the Broncos wouldn't want to lose young, good players such as TPJ, Oates etc. If they sacked Bennett immediately they would be forced to pay him out and more importantly probably lose TPJ, Oates etc who may/may not have clauses in their contracts allowing them to leave if Bennett isn't the coach.

People that think it will all be roses if Ivan coaches WT in 2019 and 2020 are kidding themselves. Fans will be rabidly wanting Ivan's head on a stake after 3 or 4 losses, the innuendo will damage our club immeasurably also. Th media are going to be all over our club once the losses pile up without a doubt.
Just cannot see 1 single positive of having Cleary coach us anymore.

The Bronco's may not want to lose players, but their decision to not keep Bennett past next year has made a few question staying on at the club. At this stage of the game, none of that is happening here and I just can't see it happening here.

Some fans have tinfoil hats on too tight, but even if all this current merry-go-round wasn't in play, if we didn't make the finals next year, IC's head would be on the chopping block. If we had a losing streak like the middle period of this season, again fans would be calling for his head.

I, personally, don't care whether he's here or not, I just don't think the sky will fall down even if he does see out his 2 years. That scenario is probably the very least likely option anyway. If he stays I'd expect it to be only for next year then we get Bennett.

Personally i hope he isnt here, can't see anything positive coming out of that undesireable situation.
However if he coaches us for the next 1 or 2 seasons i will still support the club 100% and hope that we are successful, there would be no death-riding Cleary because obviously there would be no joy in watching our club struggle, there has been enough of that over the years.
If he is our coach you would just hope he would be as professional as possible. Got my doubts about the bloke though after his discussions with the Panthers on the quiet and then his pathetic reading of a statement to supposedly claim to be committed to seeing out his contract…..normally people who need written statements are BS artists.
Whatever eventuates, up the Tigers! This situation is none of the club's doing for a change.
 
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1st team off the coaching merry-go-round is Manly. DT reporting 3 year deal for Des Hasler.

They’re not really apart of the merry go round. They’re an island to themselves. Who they appoint won’t have a domino affect on other clubs. The merry go round is us, Brisbane, Souths and Penrith.

we are all running on a treadmill, we go hard out but go nowhere
 
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I havent heard a thing from Pascoe on the coaching for months…must be just more speculation.
Happy to be correceted

Nah you're probably right. It has been reported in the media as though someone from the club (Pascoe?) has actually stated it, but it may not even be true!

Wasting your time mate, I can see it though :deadhorse:

You dont know the difference between speculation & fact?
 
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As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

I dont think its about sabotage, its about if he can continue to effectively do the job that he was brought in to do, and that was rebuild our club. If the CEO is actively looking to replace him with two years to go on his contract - the man most responsible for employing him - that suggests that he is questioning his ability to do so - as far as Im concerned.

Given, he was only here until the end of 2020 , I don't see how it changes much. His tenure at the club would still be up in the air next year unless things went extremely well on the field.

In so far as our CEO looking for replacement's, I just see it as there are 2 qualified coaches being available or close to available and as I said, the club is just being pro-active…...which makes for a nice change. I don't see it that the club questions the coach's ability at all.

Might question the commitment to the Club though..

Yep. The fact that the club seems content to let this circus run it's course without confirming or denying anything to set the record straight suggests there are doubts all round.
At least it keeps our fans occupied through the boring off-season with something to debate I suppose.
 
Yep. The fact that the club seems content to let this circus run it's course without confirming or denying anything to set the record straight suggests there are doubts all round.

I agree with this

Weve seen in the past with inaccuracies posted in the media the club has been quick to come out and correct them

The silence in this instance does tell us something I think…..we just dont know what yet
 
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I see it like this…..

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....

I agree with you True Tiger and I can't see why it couldn't work out this way either, **but the fact that our club (not the fans) is actively pursuing another coach for next season and beyond** means that the whole scenario is emotional and it seems that it has become untenable for Cleary to see out his contract here. It's not the just the constant media speculation and emotion shown by many of the supporters that we're hearing about, it's actually taking place for real at the club. Obviously, there is more to it than we may know.

Not fact yet spud….still speculation

So it's not true, only paper talk? I thought our CEO had indicated they were chasing Bennett & Maguire?

Maybe Bennett and Mquire don’t know who Pascoe is and don’t want to talk to him :laughing: ,,,,,,,,0nly joking…
 
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With you GNR , short term hurt for long term hate and Cleary will have a reputation to protect

If Cleary dogs it , 16 clubs will be watching closely …......and Bennett would still have control of recruitment along with Kelly Egan and Pascoe

Cleary must know that Gus will sack him (if he actually even did ) as Gus doesn't take accountability for anything Gus does

It's not about Cleary "dogging it". He can be as professional as he likes and it won't matter because the players just won't respond to him in the same way as before. The players will also have a ready-made excuse for failing and that's one thing players never need. The media will be death riding the club the whole year wanting to see it fail under Cleary. It would be a disastrous season and we don't need that.

Yeah I have stated the same Nelson , but if it means getting Bennett its win /win long term

Especially if the club comes out and announces Bennett

Bennett and Pascoe can then tell any players they won't accept mediocrity and if it is offered by the players contracts will be torn up

Bennett is a far better option than Maguire , he will bring sponsors and will help with big name recruitment , our two biggest weaknesses

I'm no marketing guru but I struggle to understand how having **a sour, miserable git who always looks like he has been force-fed a turd sandwich** would help attract sponsors. He is bordering on being an embarrassment in front of the media. Publicity would have to be the only reason surely?

:roll :roll :roll
 
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Bennett is the only choice. If we don't go with him, even if it means waiting a year we deserve everything we get. That so many associate "tough" with Maguire and do so as a positive astounds me. Toughness isn't being inflexible or shouting, gesticulating or demonstrating anger. That should be far behind us and we should be striving for corporate dollars, new players who improve out tream and a respected coach with a proven record of success oveer a long period.

Let's say Wayne actually doesn't want to come has a good year at the Broncos and decided he had enough as hypothetical…

Which Coach with a proven record of success over a long period should we target...?

Shane Flanagan just to see the meltdown on the forum.

In my opinion if Flanagan became available he jumps ahead of Madge …...

Look at the players he has attracted after the abortion Cronulla had been from 2010-2013

Might be a DH but results are on the board 184 games 101 wins

And an ex Wests player.
 
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I'm sorry you lost me when you said Souths were a powerhouse. In the late 60s yes, but I don't know what side you've been watching for the past 30 years - occasional finals contenders at best.

Anyway the point isn't comparing the "powerhouseyness" of clubs, the point is comparing the mentality or reality of having a coach who is potentally leaving the club after the current season. Seibold has confirmed interviewed with Broncos for the 2020 job, which means he is definitely interested in leaving Souths after 2019\. Seibold has definitely rejected initial attempts for a contract extension at Souths, which is nearly unheard of for a rookie head coach.

So why is that any different from Cleary? In fact, at least Cleary has 2 more years to run on his Tigers deal, so theoretically more time to invest in a playing strategy, sign players etc. If Cleary is untenable, then Seibold must be 97% untenable at Souths also.

Are you trying to say that Souths are not in a better position than WT on the field then? They went within a game of the GF this year didn't they (I can't remember precisely). They won a premiership only 4 years ago. They have extremely talented youngsters on their books in Douhi, Murray and that winger. They have one of the best forwards in the comp in Sam Burgess. They are miles ahead of us on the field. And off the field they have a bottomless pit of cash thanks to Russell Crowe.
They will be right in the running for a premiership in the next 3 or 4 years. Will WT? Not bloody likely.
Compared to us they are a powerhouse.
Their coaching situation has been handled much better than the pig's breakfast that the WT's coaching soap-opera has become. If Seibold leaves, Souths will have no problem whatsoever attracting a top-line coach. Their club is seen as a desirable destination for coaches and players. Safe to say our club isn't.

Are Souths closer to a premiership than Tigers? Arguably yes.

However Souths finished 12th and 12th in 2016 to 2017\. The man who turned them around in 2018 = Seibold. He's odds-on to be leaving very soon. So I wouldn't be putting my eggs in the Souths basket when their ace rookie coach is about to be poached by a real competition powerhouse. Broncos haven't won a comp in 12 years but in all other aspects they are the true powerhouse of the league.

Has the Seibold been handled better? No, I can't see how you can say that. Same deal - a wealthy club trying to pinch your coach a few years in advance and then make his current contract "untenable". You think Souths are happy that Seibold is holding them off? They gave him a chance, took a punt with a rookie coach; he may have got that chance elsewhere, but the minute the gamble has paid off, Seibold has moved to upgrade his deal at another club.

Rusty Crowe is not a bottomless pit of money, you have no idea. He's reportedly worth $75-95M. Nick Politis is worth $1.35B, now that's where you can start talking about money pits.

And you say Souths will have no problem attracting a top-line coach… if so why did they hire a rookie for 2018? By all reports they are looking at recalling David Furner or another rookie if Seibold goes.

In your opinion Souths are "arguably" in a better position than WT to win a premiership? :laughing: 999 people out of 1000 would say there is no argument. We couldn't even make the 8 and are stuck paying gems like Chris McQueen good coin for the next year or 2….... you beaut!!
Souths appointed Seibold because he was very highly rated by most good judges involved in the game. Besides, are you able to name any top-line coaches that were available at the start of 2018? Pretty sure there weren't any.
And Rusty's $90 million isn't a bottomless pit? Where I come from it's not a bad start. Poor bugger.....I will be sure to send him a rescue package of milk arrowroot's and fresh water if the unlucky bloke is doing it tough scraping by on meagre coin like that. You only had to hear every player from the Rabbits rave about how much of a difference his presence/business contacts and accumen made to their club in 2014\. Nothing would have changed there, they wouldn't have as much clout as a club if he didn't have his finger in the pie business-wise.

Not a powerhouse.
 

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