2024 Top 30 / Ins and Outs

Kelce68 said:
OK, all of what you've mentioned there is true.

And I agree.

My opinion is two-fold, firstly, that the metrics used will dictate whether it's viewed as a better, same or worse season as '22 and secondly, that there are clashing metrics on positive and negative, so therefore to say that it is clearly, or much, or far worse (or better for that matter) than last year is an exaggeration, given the metrics for either side.

I think we made strides in some areas and fell short in others, as you mentioned.

My point is moot without some backing, so here are a few areas I think are worth noting as improvements over 2022:

- Attack was better, despite looking worse, albeit not by much (30 odd points)
- With defense comparable, it was an overall improved for and against
- we were able to get more ball, in good position (even if we couldn't do much with it). We went from 16th to 6th in possession.
- Run metres were up by 5000m over the year. Speaking largely to the improvements in the forwards.
- We went from 4th in missed tackles to 15th. So defensive efficiency improved considerably.
- We had a lot of near misses. 7 games were lost by 6 points or less.

Then, more subjectively, a few considerations -

- Barely any, or in fact zero, off season for many of our big ins, largely due to the World Cup.
- The halves merry go round and injuries to key personnel at key times. We didn't have our starting five eighth for almost the entire season. Wakeham, Smith and Laurie playing multiple games as our starting halves? Man...
- Bula.
- A taste of some other raw, but promising up and comers.
- Offloading several bad contracts in the off season.
- Api's captain's knock for the season.
- Securing in my opinion, some incredible talents.
- And some more off-field stuff that is probably more tangential than specific to the season performance in and of itself.

Anyway, I've waffled enough.

In my opinion, both seasons were woeful.

I just don't think 2023 was worse (more comparable), so I certainly don't think it was much worse.
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Appologies for the tardy reply, I have had unexpected guests lob up.

There are some reasonable points there and some that are easily debated.
Just on the stats:
  • Both years we played 24 games, winning 4 and losing 20.
  • In attack, we slightly improved our points scored - averaging 16 points/game as opposed to 15. We averaged 3 tries/game and 4 linebreaks/game both years, so no improvement. We made a lot more meters with ball in hand, kick returned better, had 2 more offloads/game and a couple more try assists across the season. Our PCM's and kick meter totals were both down.
  • All in all, our attack was very close to last year, excepting the huge increase in meters run, including kick returns. This can be put down to our new forwards and fullback.
  • In defence, we made more tackles last year and conceeded the same amount of points per game in 28. Our missed tackles per game was slightly better this year but still averaging 33/game.
  • All in all, our defence did not improve enough to comment on positively.
  • As for discipline, we controlled possession better this year, reaching 50% possession across all games. Having said that, our set completions were down, and our handling errors were up. Our penalties were on par with last year at 6/game.
My point is that statistically, the 2023 side performed marginally better on roughly half of the key measurable indicators and actually performed worse in a quarter of them. That is not encouraging for me, as when you look at the best 13 from each year, the class of 2023 is far more rated.
  1. Api is a current teir 2 International and current SOO payer who has played in NRL 4 GF's
  2. Klemmer is a former teir 1 International and SOO player who has played in 2 NRL GF's
  3. Stephano is a current teir 2 International and SOO player
  4. Bateman is a current teir 1 International who has played in 1 NRL GF and 2 Super League GF's
  5. Papali'i is a current teir 1 International who has played in 1 NRL GF
  6. Doueihi is a current teir 2 International
  7. Wakeham is a current teir 2 International
  8. To'a is a current teir 2 International
  9. Tupou is a current teir 2 International
  10. Naden has played in 1 NRL GF
  11. Nofoaluma is a former teir 2 International
  12. Staines has played in 1 NRL GF
  13. Bula is a current teir 2 International
Of these 13 guys, 7 are new this year and 3 were here last year but were still ducklings trying to tread water. Doueihi and Naden didnt play much in either year and Nofoaluma played more games this year than last. Point being...the 2023 Wests Tigers were a far better squad, heavily boosted in the forward pack and with a lot of big game experience in and around them...dont forget that the coaching staff was also overhauled with highly experienced men within the game. They should have given the 8 a scare. Coming last is a miserable result that they should all feel ashamed to have been involved with.

For mine, 2022 was a terrible year that was hamstrung with a poor roster, poor administration decisions such as axing the coach mid year and failin to replace him, large amount of injuries, players let go during the season and others loaned out during the season. The spoon was inevitable.
2023 did not have the same extent of excuses and enjoyed a far better roster, and a better go at the competition. They slightly improved in some areas but within a comp that included a new team with no depth, still only managed 4 wins and thats a worse result as far as Im concerned than 2022.
 
I think a few of you blokes were watching Staines with Rose coloured glasses.
I agree that it is backs that we are in most need of and that he is an adequate player. But he is hardly a must re-sign talent. I reckon its arguable that he makes our best 17, but certainly not our "best winger by daylight".
 
think Stains has taken himself out of the game for medical reasons,weird ,that no chatter is on him, Dogs circling or of to ESL,etc etc
 
Tucker said:
Appologies for the tardy reply, I have had unexpected guests lob up.

There are some reasonable points there and some that are easily debated.
Just on the stats:
  • Both years we played 24 games, winning 4 and losing 20.
  • In attack, we slightly improved our points scored - averaging 16 points/game as opposed to 15. We averaged 3 tries/game and 4 linebreaks/game both years, so no improvement. We made a lot more meters with ball in hand, kick returned better, had 2 more offloads/game and a couple more try assists across the season. Our PCM's and kick meter totals were both down.
  • All in all, our attack was very close to last year, excepting the huge increase in meters run, including kick returns. This can be put down to our new forwards and fullback.
  • In defence, we made more tackles last year and conceeded the same amount of points per game in 28. Our missed tackles per game was slightly better this year but still averaging 33/game.
  • All in all, our defence did not improve enough to comment on positively.
  • As for discipline, we controlled possession better this year, reaching 50% possession across all games. Having said that, our set completions were down, and our handling errors were up. Our penalties were on par with last year at 6/game.
My point is that statistically, the 2023 side performed marginally better on roughly half of the key measurable indicators and actually performed worse in a quarter of them. That is not encouraging for me, as when you look at the best 13 from each year, the class of 2023 is far more rated.
  1. Api is a current teir 2 International and current SOO payer who has played in NRL 4 GF's
  2. Klemmer is a former teir 1 International and SOO player who has played in 2 NRL GF's
  3. Stephano is a current teir 2 International and SOO player
  4. Bateman is a current teir 1 International who has played in 1 NRL GF and 2 Super League GF's
  5. Papali'i is a current teir 1 International who has played in 1 NRL GF
  6. Doueihi is a current teir 2 International
  7. Wakeham is a current teir 2 International
  8. To'a is a current teir 2 International
  9. Tupou is a current teir 2 International
  10. Naden has played in 1 NRL GF
  11. Nofoaluma is a former teir 2 International
  12. Staines has played in 1 NRL GF
  13. Bula is a current teir 2 International
Of these 13 guys, 7 are new this year and 3 were here last year but were still ducklings trying to tread water. Doueihi and Naden didnt play much in either year and Nofoaluma played more games this year than last. Point being...the 2023 Wests Tigers were a far better squad, heavily boosted in the forward pack and with a lot of big game experience in and around them...dont forget that the coaching staff was also overhauled with highly experienced men within the game. They should have given the 8 a scare. Coming last is a miserable result that they should all feel ashamed to have been involved with.

For mine, 2022 was a terrible year that was hamstrung with a poor roster, poor administration decisions such as axing the coach mid year and failin to replace him, large amount of injuries, players let go during the season and others loaned out during the season. The spoon was inevitable.
2023 did not have the same extent of excuses and enjoyed a far better roster, and a better go at the competition. They slightly improved in some areas but within a comp that included a new team with no depth, still only managed 4 wins and thats a worse result as far as Im concerned than 2022.
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Brilliant. 👏
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
There is some very good young talent in the 'ins' for 2024. The club has done well to retain them in an ultra competitive market.
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Over the years I've read so much about our "young talent" - but apart from Teddy, which player from our junior ranks has really gone to make it big? I am struggling to recall any.
 
Tiger_heart said:
Over the years I've read so much about our "young talent" - but apart from Teddy, which player from our junior ranks has really gone to make it big? I am struggling to recall any.
Click to expand...
Mitch mosses has done pretty well
 
finnzo said:
Mitch mosses has done pretty well
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I'd say "reasonably well" compared to the hype ;-) - still, considering the number that every year are talked about, there is little evidence to suggest they go on to deliver the goods...
 
Admittedly there were a number of players unavailable to play for Australia in 2011 so Chris was probably a bit lucky to get selected but he still managed to play every game from memory and as far as rep football goes, he still played more rep football after the hip injury then he did before.

Almost impossible to say how much effect that hip injury had on his future progression but one thing you can't deny is that he was one hell of a tough determined player when you take into account the bad luck he had with injuries.
 
Tiger_heart said:
Over the years I've read so much about our "young talent" - but apart from Teddy, which player from our junior ranks has really gone to make it big? I am struggling to recall any.
Click to expand...
Tiger_heart said:
Over the years I've read so much about our "young talent" - but apart from Teddy, which player from our junior ranks has really gone to make it big? I am struggling to recall any.
Click to expand...

Farah, Dwyer, Lawrence, Woods, Koroibate, Hodgson, Skandalis, Papenhuyzen, Fifita etc. say hallo ;)
 
KingRobbie said:
INS
Aidan Sezer (Leeds)
Brandon Mansfield (Upgraded)
Jayden Sullivan (St. George Illawarra)
Jordan Miller (Upgraded)
Josh Feledy (Upgraded)
Lachlan Galvin (Upgraded)
Latu Fainu (Manly)
Samuela Fainu (Manly)
Tallyn Da Silva (Upgraded)

OUTS
Aitasi James (Manly)
Apisalome Saukuru (Off-contract, not officially released)
Brandon Wakeham (Released)
Charlie Staines (Off-contract, not officially released)
Daine Laurie (Penrith)
Luke Brooks (Manly)
Rua Ngatikaura (Released)
Tommy Talau (Manly)
Tukimihia Simpkins (Released)
Click to expand...
Man just stack people against each other:
Daine Laurie -> Aiden Sezer -- overall loss
Brandon Wakeham -> Sullivan -- upgrade.
Charlie Staines -> Josh Feledy -- massive loss.
Luke Brooks -> Latu Fainu -- An upgrade in 2 years time. Fainu isn't ready.
Rua Ngatikaura -> Tallyn da Silva -- upgrade.
Aitasi James -> Samuela Fainu -- upgrade.

The only experienced player I see coming in is Sezer!
Shall we play Beyonce and do the Pepa dance just so he feels at home?

There is hope in the attack. yes inexperienced halves but talented halves.

While those going out aren't known for defense (ok except Brooks who actually did tackle and lost his former title of turnstyle... pity he never learned how to guide a team...). Everyone coming in seems worse, defensively.

We are downgrading in large steps our teams defensive capabilities to get "fast footy" attackers.
We needed a solid defensive center. loosing Tommy and Staines means we go from bad to worse.
 
crazycat said:
Man just stack people against each other:
Daine Laurie -> Aiden Sezer -- overall loss
Brandon Wakeham -> Sullivan -- upgrade.
Charlie Staines -> Josh Feledy -- massive loss.
Luke Brooks -> Latu Fainu -- An upgrade in 2 years time. Fainu isn't ready.
Rua Ngatikaura -> Tallyn da Silva -- upgrade.
Aitasi James -> Samuela Fainu -- upgrade.

The only experienced player I see coming in is Sezer!
Shall we play Beyonce and do the Pepa dance just so he feels at home?

There is hope in the attack. yes inexperienced halves but talented halves.

While those going out aren't known for defense (ok except Brooks who actually did tackle and lost his former title of turnstyle... pity he never learned how to guide a team...). Everyone coming in seems worse, defensively.

We are downgrading in large steps our teams defensive capabilities to get "fast footy" attackers.
We needed a solid defensive center. loosing Tommy and Staines means we go from bad to worse.
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Some of these comparisons are very strange.

Laurie, a bloke who played fullback for the club for all bar 3 games out of necessity at five-eighth, you've compared to a halfback bought in specifically for experience.

Staines, never played centre, to an 18 year old centre who has played 1 game.

Aitasi James, who was never top 30, for Samuela, who is.

Not all squad changes are like for like, so trying to compare them doesn't always make much sense.
 
gregjm87 said:
I think a few of you blokes were watching Staines with Rose coloured glasses.
I agree that it is backs that we are in most need of and that he is an adequate player. But he is hardly a must re-sign talent. I reckon its arguable that he makes our best 17, but certainly not our "best winger by daylight".
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It speaks a lot for the state we are in when the fourth string Panthers winger is a must re-sign for us. Truth is he was on good money subsidised by the Panthers but failed to play many games for us. We already have a winger that is over paid and delivers little so I can understand the club being reserved when it comes to his resigning.

We are crying out for one or two quality Centres, and that is where our money should be focused, not a winger.
 
upthetigers said:
I wonder what Staines has done to fall out of favour. Boggles my mind he hasn't been resigned when we desperately need backs.
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Once again, our top 30 is currently full. Until we offload someone he can't sign with us.

If anything the fact he hasn't signed anywhere yet suggests he's not moving, as he's already missed a week's pay.
 
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