The 2021 series for me I see it differently. He played well don’t get me wrong, but even if he didn’t play I still think NSW would’ve won the way they did as that was one of the worst performances I’d ever seen from QLD in Origin. For me to count Cleary sealing an Origin series it needs to be in a decider and Cleary has yet to do that he’s lost every single decider he’s been apart of and didn’t even play the 2 deciders NSW won in recent years.
2025 Kangaroos Ashes Tour
- Thread starter innsaneink
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I thought both refs used in the series were very lenient in allowing England to slow the play down at the ruck to keep England in the game.Don't get me wrong England did try but they had zero attack and never looked like breaking down our defence despite the weight of pressure.
Until the ESL refs allow a faster game they will not be in the hunt against well disciplined sides as speed in play the balls is one of the main key's to unlocking defences.
innsaneink
Well-known member
Quite amazing they didnt have a clear camera angle showing JAC on or off side for his try/no try
Tucker
Well-known member
People say that Luai and Moses sealed that series in 24 without him and technically that’s true - especially as they dominated game 2 but if you are being absolutely objective in your analysis, that halves pairing were very poor in game 3 and their poor play was masked over as both ended up deciding the outcome with two decisive runs. For the rest of that game though, they were outplayed and did nothing.
It is very seldom that a NSW half dominates a QLD side. I’ve seen him do it more than anyone else in the past decade or so.
Deciders are his Achilles heel, I’ll concede that.
Tucker
Well-known member
That was very poor. The Aussie ref should have given him the BOD as the chasers very rarely get that wrong.
gallagher
Well-known member
I agree. And that's why I don't think he should be an automatic automatic for the blues. He hasn't learnt that, but Daley will pick him no matter what.
I got onto the Total Rugby League forum, and they’re all scratching their heads about why the Three Lions played so poorly, were coached so poorly, and why the Super League is so poorly governed. I think the NRL will take a 33% stake in the Super League, it’s the only way to build the game in Europe within a football dominant market.
Here are some of their comments:
" We have no one, no one at all, with the combination of acceleration, speed, strength, aggression (in and after the tackle) and vision possessed by Grant and Walsh. (Litten is our nearest). We have no one, no one at all, with the combination of strength, aggression and afters as Crichton.
As for Lewis, not blaming him for mistakes. His progress at HKR over the last two seasons has been remarkable but he still has a lot to learn, and I'm sure he will. At times he looked a little unsure, and only occasionally did his combativity show."
" Wane’s mismanagement of Lewis has been criminal. To not have Connor at least in the squad is also criminal. He’s totally wasted Farnworth, our best and probably only world class player. The man is a dinosaur. "
" I think what this series has shown that raising the over quota to 10 for Super League won't help the England side one iota as most will be players from the NSW and QLD cup sides. The overseas quota should be reduced making clubs nurture British talent "
Here are some of their comments:
" We have no one, no one at all, with the combination of acceleration, speed, strength, aggression (in and after the tackle) and vision possessed by Grant and Walsh. (Litten is our nearest). We have no one, no one at all, with the combination of strength, aggression and afters as Crichton.
As for Lewis, not blaming him for mistakes. His progress at HKR over the last two seasons has been remarkable but he still has a lot to learn, and I'm sure he will. At times he looked a little unsure, and only occasionally did his combativity show."
" Wane’s mismanagement of Lewis has been criminal. To not have Connor at least in the squad is also criminal. He’s totally wasted Farnworth, our best and probably only world class player. The man is a dinosaur. "
" I think what this series has shown that raising the over quota to 10 for Super League won't help the England side one iota as most will be players from the NSW and QLD cup sides. The overseas quota should be reduced making clubs nurture British talent "
gallagher
Well-known member
If the NRL buy SL, what's the odds they revert back to a winter season? PVL gets footy all year round to sell to the broadcasters
Tucker
Well-known member
The English game over there is not based on defence. As a result their playmakers are not used to trying to break down sophisticated and effective defensive lines.
They had 120 sets this series to the Kangaroos 115, yet never really looked like scoring from anything other than an opportunistic dummy half scoot until just before halftime today when they finally split our line with good play.
They will find the same defences against NZ, Samoa and Tonga next year and that should worry them.
I agree, I also think that they should have a yearly competition with tier two countries like Wales, Ireland and France to build the game in Europe and identify new talent. There grass roots programs just aren't working.
We did that with our pacific tier two neighbours and it's been brilliant.
Tucker
Well-known member
Definitely.
Countries with top tier Rugby Union programs should be targeted, as the same fundamentals - I.e. run, kick, catch, pass and tackle are already understood to varying degrees. They should all have decent Rugby League programs but no one seems to give enough of a shit about it over there.
It’s because football is so dominant, and you get paid so much more if you’re a superior athlete. Hopefully, with the NRL taking a stake in the Super League, that will change.
I agree Luai and Moses were poor in game 3 last year even though both did produce the tries for NSW to win but overall they played nowhere near like they did in game 2 to even the series. Cleary has played well in Origin he’s had solid games for NSW. But until he clenches a decider for us I can’t say he’s been the key to us winning the series, but I do see where you’re coming from with your point. If he does get picked next year (my gut tells me will unless he’s injured or suspended) I do think he needs to step up a bit more especially if it is another decider.
I just hope Daley does a better job with coaching and selection for next year’s series. He got both wrong big time this year which ultimately cost us.
gallagher
Well-known member
He won't.
Tucker
Well-known member
Yep, he is arguably the most clutch player in the NRL.
This needs to be replicated at rep level
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Odessa
Well-known member
Mate is only elite when his dad makes the game plan up and they practice for 3 months before the season starts
Mitchell Moses is such a better 7
Also why I am here I don't rate the Melbourne spine as highly as other people
I rate them all highly as individuals but as a combination I think they are lacking I think there spine lacks a game manager
Tucker
Well-known member
Chrichton was a beast. Hudson not far behind him.
Australia always goes well when we have a backrow who bust their arse yet are skilful.
