6th in Attack and 14th in Defence

[jirskyr]

We are back to the 2007-2009 Wests Tigers, all flash no substance. Losing 36-26.

 

[the_third]

Well with 1 round remaining we sit in 10th but will prob finish 11th given the 2 teams below us play each other.

Our attack has us up at number 6 but our defence is 14th better then only the Cowboys and Broncos in points conceded. Yep even the Dogs have let in less points then us.

So for all the talk about fast wingers coming in or which half plays with which my question is what do we do to improve our defence next year.

We have scored more then 20 points and lost against - Knights, Titans, Warriors, Souths and Storm and almost did it against Manly and Dogs where we just scraped home in high scoring games.

Obviously Benji going will help our defence, bringing Tamou will help our defence and replacing Webster with a new defence coach assisting will help but other then spending the whole off season on defence what other tactical improvements do we need

Surprise - it averages out to 10th

 

[Madge]

We are back to the 2007-2009 Wests Tigers, all flash no substance. Losing 36-26.

At least 2010 was next 🙂

 

[Magpie1969]

Who cares we are 10th and not playing finals again since 2011.
This is all I really care about and 2021 appears to be the same.

 

[TigerSJ]

All the posters that keep blaming the halves - Brook's kicking game or Benji's bloopers - as if they only got that right it would be the solution.

Simply not true. NRL has some basic fundamentals that lay the foundation of winning games. If your team cannot consistently move up in D and halt the progression upfield of the opposition thus allowing them to play in your danger zone regularly (especially under the new 6 again rules), and if your team cannot consistently make yardage in A out of your own 20M zone - then you are behind the eight ball and it's only a matter of how long and by how much.
Your kicker is kicking from 30-40metres out all game and has limited options. Blowing up royally about a kick that goes dead or a poor pass is silly - every ballplayer makes errors, Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.
At WTs we also compound the problem with slow marker D, losing the ruck, forwards too slow to get up or turn around and plain dumb errors and poor discipline.
Good Defensive structures are important but more important is hunger and effort on effort, desire to compete is what is lacking and it needs to be an innate characteristic within each of our players. We simply do not have enough of those character types and Grant is a perfect example of what that looks like.
Until we are able to reshape our group we will not seriously compete and it won't matter who the halves are. My view is it must start with the forwards.

 

[jirskyr]

Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.

I agree with your post. There's also a difference between sharpness and "clunky-ness" that was evident all match.

Tigers and Storm both toiled all game. Storm had much better line speed. But when they shifted the ball, Storm were so smooth - passes out in front, players in the right space, they knew what the options where and had a good feel for where the ball was going.

Nicho Hynes seems a good footballer but he's filling in at the moment and has played 8 NRL games total. There is no specific reason why an 8-game footballer should be such a threat, but the reality is not just his ability, it's the entire team doing what they are supposed to be doing all game - providing options, chasing kicks, running hard, having awareness of what's unfolding in front of them.

Hynes had all the time in the world on Saturday, looked like a seasoned champ, knew where to be and how to use the football. It was basically a carve-up every time they shifted the football, as evident by the score.

Tigers on the other hand were just all over the place, which I really can't understand after 20 rounds of football. Sure there were some players missing, but it's not as if the backups haven't been training all year. Hynes is a backup. Josh Reynolds has played 160 FG games.

Benji right now is creating some great try assists on a weekly basis, but that belies the reality that the team is super clunky and they just can't get their attack to flow. The players try hard in attack always, but it's a million one-ups then an uncoordinated shift.

We looked dangerous for about 15 mins but that wasn't from sharp play, that was from the players trying to lift their intensity and compete more effectively. However that kind of effort expends a lot of energy, whereas if we were a sharper outfit, we'd simply be more efficient on use of our attacking energy.

If you get my meaning, Storm were a threat everywhere after they laid a decent platform. Tigers were a threat only when Benji conjured up a try assist, which he can certainly still do, and only when the other players were aware of what he was doing. Nofoaluma has had a standout 2020 by basically going on solo runs and being janky and difficult to tackle when Tigers manage to give him some space to finish. But none of that is through smooth and precise play, it's only from working hard and giving the ball some width when the team is in the mood for points.

And that's precisely why the 80 mins has become an issue, because we can't keep that tempo or that mood going for 80 mins, it takes too much out of the players. We only look threatening in attack when we press the "threatening attack" button, which seems to be either when the opposition has given us a tonne of ball or we are chasing down some big leads.

 

[Geo]

I think I can sum it up with Wests Tigers suck at Rugbeh League Storms don’t

 

[happy_tiger]

Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.

I agree with your post. There's also a difference between sharpness and "clunky-ness" that was evident all match.

Tigers and Storm both toiled all game. Storm had much better line speed. But when they shifted the ball, Storm were so smooth - passes out in front, players in the right space, they knew what the options where and had a good feel for where the ball was going.

Nicho Hynes seems a good footballer but he's filling in at the moment and has played 8 NRL games total. There is no specific reason why an 8-game footballer should be such a threat, but the reality is not just his ability, it's the entire team doing what they are supposed to be doing all game - providing options, chasing kicks, running hard, having awareness of what's unfolding in front of them.

Hynes had all the time in the world on Saturday, looked like a seasoned champ, knew where to be and how to use the football. It was basically a carve-up every time they shifted the football, as evident by the score.

Tigers on the other hand were just all over the place, which I really can't understand after 20 rounds of football. Sure there were some players missing, but it's not as if the backups haven't been training all year. Hynes is a backup. Josh Reynolds has played 160 FG games.

Benji right now is creating some great try assists on a weekly basis, but that belies the reality that the team is super clunky and they just can't get their attack to flow. The players try hard in attack always, but it's a million one-ups then an uncoordinated shift.

We looked dangerous for about 15 mins but that wasn't from sharp play, that was from the players trying to lift their intensity and compete more effectively. However that kind of effort expends a lot of energy, whereas if we were a sharper outfit, we'd simply be more efficient on use of our attacking energy.

If you get my meaning, Storm were a threat everywhere after they laid a decent platform. Tigers were a threat only when Benji conjured up a try assist, which he can certainly still do, and only when the other players were aware of what he was doing. Nofoaluma has had a standout 2020 by basically going on solo runs and being janky and difficult to tackle when Tigers manage to give him some space to finish. But none of that is through smooth and precise play, it's only from working hard and giving the ball some width when the team is in the mood for points.

And that's precisely why the 80 mins has become an issue, because we can't keep that tempo or that mood going for 80 mins, it takes too much out of the players. We only look threatening in attack when we press the "threatening attack" button, which seems to be either when the opposition has given us a tonne of ball or we are chasing down some big leads.

The biggest problem is our team changes so often ...how many times have our 6 and 7 changed this year

 

[Tiger5150]

Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.

I agree with your post. There's also a difference between sharpness and "clunky-ness" that was evident all match.

Tigers and Storm both toiled all game. Storm had much better line speed. But when they shifted the ball, Storm were so smooth - passes out in front, players in the right space, they knew what the options where and had a good feel for where the ball was going.

Nicho Hynes seems a good footballer but he's filling in at the moment and has played 8 NRL games total. There is no specific reason why an 8-game footballer should be such a threat, but the reality is not just his ability, it's the entire team doing what they are supposed to be doing all game - providing options, chasing kicks, running hard, having awareness of what's unfolding in front of them.

Hynes had all the time in the world on Saturday, looked like a seasoned champ, knew where to be and how to use the football. It was basically a carve-up every time they shifted the football, as evident by the score.

Tigers on the other hand were just all over the place, which I really can't understand after 20 rounds of football. Sure there were some players missing, but it's not as if the backups haven't been training all year. Hynes is a backup. Josh Reynolds has played 160 FG games.

Benji right now is creating some great try assists on a weekly basis, but that belies the reality that the team is super clunky and they just can't get their attack to flow. The players try hard in attack always, but it's a million one-ups then an uncoordinated shift.

We looked dangerous for about 15 mins but that wasn't from sharp play, that was from the players trying to lift their intensity and compete more effectively. However that kind of effort expends a lot of energy, whereas if we were a sharper outfit, we'd simply be more efficient on use of our attacking energy.

If you get my meaning, Storm were a threat everywhere after they laid a decent platform. Tigers were a threat only when Benji conjured up a try assist, which he can certainly still do, and only when the other players were aware of what he was doing. Nofoaluma has had a standout 2020 by basically going on solo runs and being janky and difficult to tackle when Tigers manage to give him some space to finish. But none of that is through smooth and precise play, it's only from working hard and giving the ball some width when the team is in the mood for points.

And that's precisely why the 80 mins has become an issue, because we can't keep that tempo or that mood going for 80 mins, it takes too much out of the players. We only look threatening in attack when we press the "threatening attack" button, which seems to be either when the opposition has given us a tonne of ball or we are chasing down some big leads.

The biggest problem is our team changes so often ...how many times have our 6 and 7 changed this year

Tigers fans: Why does the coach keep picking the same team week after week, loss after loss?

Also Tigers fans: why does the coach keep changing the team?

 

[earl]

Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.

I agree with your post. There's also a difference between sharpness and "clunky-ness" that was evident all match.

Tigers and Storm both toiled all game. Storm had much better line speed. But when they shifted the ball, Storm were so smooth - passes out in front, players in the right space, they knew what the options where and had a good feel for where the ball was going.

Nicho Hynes seems a good footballer but he's filling in at the moment and has played 8 NRL games total. There is no specific reason why an 8-game footballer should be such a threat, but the reality is not just his ability, it's the entire team doing what they are supposed to be doing all game - providing options, chasing kicks, running hard, having awareness of what's unfolding in front of them.

Hynes had all the time in the world on Saturday, looked like a seasoned champ, knew where to be and how to use the football. It was basically a carve-up every time they shifted the football, as evident by the score.

Tigers on the other hand were just all over the place, which I really can't understand after 20 rounds of football. Sure there were some players missing, but it's not as if the backups haven't been training all year. Hynes is a backup. Josh Reynolds has played 160 FG games.

Benji right now is creating some great try assists on a weekly basis, but that belies the reality that the team is super clunky and they just can't get their attack to flow. The players try hard in attack always, but it's a million one-ups then an uncoordinated shift.

We looked dangerous for about 15 mins but that wasn't from sharp play, that was from the players trying to lift their intensity and compete more effectively. However that kind of effort expends a lot of energy, whereas if we were a sharper outfit, we'd simply be more efficient on use of our attacking energy.

If you get my meaning, Storm were a threat everywhere after they laid a decent platform. Tigers were a threat only when Benji conjured up a try assist, which he can certainly still do, and only when the other players were aware of what he was doing. Nofoaluma has had a standout 2020 by basically going on solo runs and being janky and difficult to tackle when Tigers manage to give him some space to finish. But none of that is through smooth and precise play, it's only from working hard and giving the ball some width when the team is in the mood for points.

And that's precisely why the 80 mins has become an issue, because we can't keep that tempo or that mood going for 80 mins, it takes too much out of the players. We only look threatening in attack when we press the "threatening attack" button, which seems to be either when the opposition has given us a tonne of ball or we are chasing down some big leads.

The biggest problem is our team changes so often ...how many times have our 6 and 7 changed this year

The only reason the team changes is because they aren't good enough. Our halves have been terrible.

 

[Donjer]

All the posters that keep blaming the halves - Brook's kicking game or Benji's bloopers - as if they only got that right it would be the solution.

Simply not true. NRL has some basic fundamentals that lay the foundation of winning games. If your team cannot consistently move up in D and halt the progression upfield of the opposition thus allowing them to play in your danger zone regularly (especially under the new 6 again rules), and if your team cannot consistently make yardage in A out of your own 20M zone - then you are behind the eight ball and it's only a matter of how long and by how much.
Your kicker is kicking from 30-40metres out all game and has limited options. Blowing up royally about a kick that goes dead or a poor pass is silly - every ballplayer makes errors, Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.
At WTs we also compound the problem with slow marker D, losing the ruck, forwards too slow to get up or turn around and plain dumb errors and poor discipline.
Good Defensive structures are important but more important is hunger and effort on effort, desire to compete is what is lacking and it needs to be an innate characteristic within each of our players. We simply do not have enough of those character types and Grant is a perfect example of what that looks like.
Until we are able to reshape our group we will not seriously compete and it won't matter who the halves are. My view is it must start with the forwards.

Not sure whether a well written, common sense piece has a place on here! Imagine the uproar if one of our halves kicked out on the full.

 

[Papacito]

The best way to defend is to hold onto the ball.

In league in particular. defending sucks up a lot of energy. The more defending you do, the worse your defence tends to get.

It's no surprise that we're sitting 12th on % of possession in a game.

 

[jadtiger]

The best way to defend is to hold onto the ball.

Ding ding ding we have a winner

 

[happy_tiger]

Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.

I agree with your post. There's also a difference between sharpness and "clunky-ness" that was evident all match.

Tigers and Storm both toiled all game. Storm had much better line speed. But when they shifted the ball, Storm were so smooth - passes out in front, players in the right space, they knew what the options where and had a good feel for where the ball was going.

Nicho Hynes seems a good footballer but he's filling in at the moment and has played 8 NRL games total. There is no specific reason why an 8-game footballer should be such a threat, but the reality is not just his ability, it's the entire team doing what they are supposed to be doing all game - providing options, chasing kicks, running hard, having awareness of what's unfolding in front of them.

Hynes had all the time in the world on Saturday, looked like a seasoned champ, knew where to be and how to use the football. It was basically a carve-up every time they shifted the football, as evident by the score.

Tigers on the other hand were just all over the place, which I really can't understand after 20 rounds of football. Sure there were some players missing, but it's not as if the backups haven't been training all year. Hynes is a backup. Josh Reynolds has played 160 FG games.

Benji right now is creating some great try assists on a weekly basis, but that belies the reality that the team is super clunky and they just can't get their attack to flow. The players try hard in attack always, but it's a million one-ups then an uncoordinated shift.

We looked dangerous for about 15 mins but that wasn't from sharp play, that was from the players trying to lift their intensity and compete more effectively. However that kind of effort expends a lot of energy, whereas if we were a sharper outfit, we'd simply be more efficient on use of our attacking energy.

If you get my meaning, Storm were a threat everywhere after they laid a decent platform. Tigers were a threat only when Benji conjured up a try assist, which he can certainly still do, and only when the other players were aware of what he was doing. Nofoaluma has had a standout 2020 by basically going on solo runs and being janky and difficult to tackle when Tigers manage to give him some space to finish. But none of that is through smooth and precise play, it's only from working hard and giving the ball some width when the team is in the mood for points.

And that's precisely why the 80 mins has become an issue, because we can't keep that tempo or that mood going for 80 mins, it takes too much out of the players. We only look threatening in attack when we press the "threatening attack" button, which seems to be either when the opposition has given us a tonne of ball or we are chasing down some big leads.

The biggest problem is our team changes so often ...how many times have our 6 and 7 changed this year

The only reason the team changes is because they aren't good enough. Our halves have been terrible.

Won't get better getting changed every week either

Should of been the running the planned combo for 21 and to hellw ith results

 

[happy_tiger]

The best way to defend is to hold onto the ball.

In league in particular. defending sucks up a lot of energy. The more defending you do, the worse your defence tends to get.

It's no surprise that we're sitting 12th on % of possession in a game.

We had a game where we completed at 94% and were still egtting hammered

 

[Joelcainenumber1fan]

i think we were a top 6 defensive team at the halfway point

 

[bbobb]

All the posters that keep blaming the halves - Brook's kicking game or Benji's bloopers - as if they only got that right it would be the solution.

Simply not true. NRL has some basic fundamentals that lay the foundation of winning games. If your team cannot consistently move up in D and halt the progression upfield of the opposition thus allowing them to play in your danger zone regularly (especially under the new 6 again rules), and if your team cannot consistently make yardage in A out of your own 20M zone - then you are behind the eight ball and it's only a matter of how long and by how much.
Your kicker is kicking from 30-40metres out all game and has limited options. Blowing up royally about a kick that goes dead or a poor pass is silly - every ballplayer makes errors, Smith and Munster both kicked out on the full and Hughes threw the ball to nobody more than once against us, but they still smashed us because they have the fortitude to defend their errors, as do all the better teams.
At WTs we also compound the problem with slow marker D, losing the ruck, forwards too slow to get up or turn around and plain dumb errors and poor discipline.
Good Defensive structures are important but more important is hunger and effort on effort, desire to compete is what is lacking and it needs to be an innate characteristic within each of our players. We simply do not have enough of those character types and Grant is a perfect example of what that looks like.
Until we are able to reshape our group we will not seriously compete and it won't matter who the halves are. My view is it must start with the forwards.

Good post! We simply do not have forwards to be able to consistently bend the line and make good post contact metres. In this new “V’landysball” it is all about the speed of the ruck. Make yards and have defences retreating.

 

[Moh]

There are individuals that contribute to our poor defense, I don't think you could say our attack isn't the problem.

Our defense was very good early in the season, and that's because we were in games. It's as soon as we're out of a game, the flood gates open up. Our players get frustrated when we finish off sets so pathetically, and they lose all will to put in any effort.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

There are individuals that contribute to our poor defense, I don't think you could say our attack isn't the problem.

Our defense was very good early in the season, and that's because we were in games. It's as soon as we're out of a game, the flood gates open up. Our players get frustrated when we finish off sets so pathetically, and they lose all will to put in any effort.

I wish we had a team full of smart footballers like Momirovski. He just has it on the field that some in our team lack.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

For a team that more attack minded the defense will always take a back seat, however perplexed that Madge has been harping on about D all season and we have not improved.

It seems up until round 12 our D has dropped off with last round 50 points being our worst result.

So up until round 12 the team was changing based upon performance, we had Harry also out of the side for a few rounds, some injuries which meant players with less game time came into the side plus we have played 5 or the Top 8 teams the last 7 weeks which have shown we are not at that level with the current squad.

As others state D is about attitude and our backs need more work than the forwards as they forget to line up constantly one on one and back there own ability and constantly some players rush out of the line.

So Benji's contract not being renewed and they talk about his D but there is a few other players worst than him that require highlighting.

Forwards benchmark should be over 90% and acceptable 95%. Most would be surprised to see that Mikaele tops these stats with 96.2% and leads the forwards this season.

Garner - 87.7% - Covers Marshall to a degree
Chee-Kam - 88.9%
Packer - 89.1%
Blore - 89.5%

Marshall - 81.3%
Kepaoa - 66.6%
Nofoluma - 68%
Doueihi - 70.6%
Talau - 71%
Reynolds - 80.1%

Walters tops the backs with 89.5% bit also played a few games in the forwards that complement his average.
We also have some inexperience in the backs this season.

We also top the league in Decoy runs although required i wonder sometimes when we make a mistake with the ball in hand our D is under pressure because of the way we play?

Our overall conversion rate at 70% need to improve to 80% which means more points and a better +.