America - Gun Control

[tsjonathan]

Asking questions is ALWAYS the intelligent thing to do.

The official line so far is that he acted alone in the hotel room. But how does a 64 year old manage to shoot a modified automatic rifle for 10-15 minutes continuously? I'm much younger than him and physically fit, and i would say it would be nearly impossible for me to do that under normal circumstances. Its not like the movies, shooting any long arm more powerful than a .22 is not a walk in the park.

If he used a bump stock as reported, he would have had this rifle pummeling into his shoulder 400 times per 60 seconds. Unless he is superman, than it verges on the physically impossible.

Information may come out explaining how this was done, but it is a legitimate question to ask when no explanation currently exists.

Your premise is wrong. I'll give an explanation to you to try and explain this. I went out with some fundamentalist muslims for dinner recently. They don't believe that muslims are creating these terrorist attacks including 9/11\. They believe it's a government conspiracy to curtail our freedoms.

If you simply replace fundamentalist muslims with right wing nutters the questions as you call them are exactly the same.

When you state it's always intelligent to ask questions what you really mean is it's best to have some dodgy conspiracy theory and search for irrelevant facts to try and justify that conspiracy theory.

I guess the difference is that your Muslim friend would have a bucket load of evidence and common sense and doesn't subscribe to the narrative fed to him. Which is fair enough.

Is it really fair enough ? I don't think it is. I think it's a way to avoid the negative side of Islam. I think it's the exact same thing with the hocus pocus theories regarding mass killings by gun nuts.

Look up operation northwoods if you have time. This was from president Kennedy's time

 

[innsaneink]

So how about those 4th floor windows Abe?
Where you reckon the 2nd shooters gunfire came from?
Keep running away

I didn't say there was a second shooter. I said people have raised a whole series of questions, and its worth looking into claims before swallowing information blindly. I see you like swallowing… information that is.

Oh, and running away? From you?? Hahaha

You suggested a second shooter, You said you saw videos of gunfire from level 4…but then waffle on about it possibly being something else
Make up your mind abe...
Was it gunfire?
Or something else?
Too many questions and not enough answers is confusing you Id say

 

[Yossarian]

We're talking about a guy who knows he's performing his last action on Earth. He's going to push through the pain until it's physically impossible.

 

[earl]

Maybe he was a reptilian. Jeez there are some nut jobs out there.

Smart phones and most media platforms simply provide information. If you follow one particular feed, you will doubt anything that does not agree with that.
The problem is that people will always have ideas planted (by right wing racist parents, left wing looney teachers etc) before they are old enough to make up their own mind. With the amount of misinformation and wackjob theories around, they will always be able to find something that supports their preconceived ideas

I looked it up on YouTube and one guy said it wasn't a reptilian but a alien life form that looked reptilian.

On a serious note what has happened in the world when there are so many people that can't face reality. I mean I get there were always some nut jobs but they are out in force now. I think that you nailed the issue. There are so many extreme viewpoints out there now that people get indoctrinated into stupidity without even realising it. Trying to reason with them is like trying to reason with my 16 yo daughter.

It's not the world, it's America. They are certifiably insane. And it gets worse the further south you go. 2 weeks ago, Roy Moore, a senate candidate in Alabama, pulled a gun out on stage at a rally. To the cheers of the audience. And he won.

Honestly this story is tops and I don't even think you are joking. There are posters on this thread that actually believe in a lot of this insanity. It couldn't be one person it had to be the Illuminati.

 

[Yossarian]

Your premise is wrong. I'll give an explanation to you to try and explain this. I went out with some fundamentalist muslims for dinner recently. They don't believe that muslims are creating these terrorist attacks including 9/11\. They believe it's a government conspiracy to curtail our freedoms.

If you simply replace fundamentalist muslims with right wing nutters the questions as you call them are exactly the same.

When you state it's always intelligent to ask questions what you really mean is it's best to have some dodgy conspiracy theory and search for irrelevant facts to try and justify that conspiracy theory.

I guess the difference is that your Muslim friend would have a bucket load of evidence and common sense and doesn't subscribe to the narrative fed to him. Which is fair enough.

Is it really fair enough ? I don't think it is. I think it's a way to avoid the negative side of Islam. I think it's the exact same thing with the hocus pocus theories regarding mass killings by gun nuts.

Look up operation northwoods if you have time. This was from president Kennedy's time

What point are you trying to make here?

 

[tsjonathan]

I guess the difference is that your Muslim friend would have a bucket load of evidence and common sense and doesn't subscribe to the narrative fed to him. Which is fair enough.

Is it really fair enough ? I don't think it is. I think it's a way to avoid the negative side of Islam. I think it's the exact same thing with the hocus pocus theories regarding mass killings by gun nuts.

Look up operation northwoods if you have time. This was from president Kennedy's time

What point are you trying to make here?

Are you being sarcastic are you seriously asking me? You seriously need me to explain it to you? I really don't need to do that, unless English isn't your first language?

 

[Yossarian]

Is it really fair enough ? I don't think it is. I think it's a way to avoid the negative side of Islam. I think it's the exact same thing with the hocus pocus theories regarding mass killings by gun nuts.

Look up operation northwoods if you have time. This was from president Kennedy's time

What point are you trying to make here?

Are you being sarcastic are you seriously asking me? You seriously need me to explain it to you? I really don't need to do that, unless English isn't your first language?

Calm down. It's a genuine question. Maybe clarify that before you start with the insults.

 

[Geo]

We're talking about a guy who knows he's performing his last action on Earth. He's going to push through the pain until it's physically impossible.

And then shoot himself in the head..

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The ammo found in his car suggests it wasn't a suicide mission.

 

[Yossarian]

I strongly doubt he thought he was getting out of that room alive.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I strongly doubt he thought he was getting out of that room alive.

According to at least one official he did.

 

[Yossarian]

I strongly doubt he thought he was getting out of that room alive.

According to at least one official he did.

He's got an opinion. I think he's wrong

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

With the recent horriic scene in Las Vegas, again the great debate that is gun control has re-emergd. Imo, our country is a good example of how gun reform works. We haven't had a mass shooting since the Howard Government introduced the buyback program after Port Arthur in 1996\. We're lucky in the sense that we can feel safe enough going to concerts and football games knowing this rubbish won't happen. I don't understand Americans who say they need a gun for protection, when taking away guns would be taking them away from those who they need to protect themselves from. They pride themselves on being leaders of the free world, yet their gun laws are third world. This year alone there has been 272 incidents of mass shootings of 4 people or more.

It seems like a vicious cycle. They want their guns to feel safe, but it opens the door to other nut jobs too. What sort of society can condone its citizins arming themselves with assault rifles. The guy in Vegas had an arsenal. But hey, if it makes American's feel safe

Not sure that we can be sure that this rubbish can't happen here,It can happen anywhere that there's some sicko nut jobs who have a religious or some other twisted barrow to push.
The amazing thing though , is that the Yank gun lovers keep saying that they need guns to be safe.
Well , where was the John Wayne clones when the poo hit the fan, ( in any of these attacks)?
You'd think that there'd be hundreds of law abiding citizens streaming into the streets and defending anyone. Maybe it's all talk on their part.
On most occasions like this they must be hiding under the bed.
When the chance is there to do something good with their toys, they've run home to mummy
Typical Americans

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

I strongly doubt he thought he was getting out of that room alive.

According to at least one official he did.

He's got an opinion. I think he's wrong

Maybe he's in a better place to form an opinion than you or any of us, just maybe

 

[Yossarian]

I strongly doubt he thought he was getting out of that room alive.

According to at least one official he did.

He's got an opinion. I think he's wrong

Maybe he's in a better place to form an opinion than you or any of us, just maybe

Maybe he is maybe he isn't. I doubt we will ever know for certainty what his intentions were.

 

[old_man_tiger]

I don't mind a conspiracy theory, but in this case there are a few relevant points.

As Willow and Abe seem to know a lot more than me about guns, I won't wade into that.

I do know a lot about 60 year olds, as they are generally amongst the youngest clients in my field. Someone who did this and survived might have taken a while to recover from any physical injury but there is no way a feat of physical endurance and strength suddenly becomes beyond you if you could do it in your fifties. Especially if someone had a mass of adrenaline, drugs or other things coursing through their veins.

Your average sixty year old doesn't have much in common with a sixty year old from thirty or even twenty years ago. This guy was an accountant, that saves the knees and shoulders compared to a person who did thirty or fourth years of a trade. I'm getting into conjecture, which it's best to avoid, because I know nothing about the bloke. Just trying to make a point about the point raised by some regarding age.

 

[Abraham]

So how about those 4th floor windows Abe?
Where you reckon the 2nd shooters gunfire came from?
Keep running away

I didn't say there was a second shooter. I said people have raised a whole series of questions, and its worth looking into claims before swallowing information blindly. I see you like swallowing… information that is.

Oh, and running away? From you?? Hahaha

You suggested a second shooter, You said you saw videos of gunfire from level 4…but then waffle on about it possibly being something else
Make up your mind abe...
Was it gunfire?
Or something else?
Too many questions and not enough answers is confusing you Id say

I suggested its a possibility there was a second shooter. And it remains a possibility there was a second shooter, until we have facts that prove otherwise.

That easy enough for you to understand, or do i need to get the crayons out?

 

[innsaneink]

The fact there's no broken windows on Level 4 would suggest your foil hats on too tight.
You're not as smart as you like to think you are.
Now… Back to your crayons and more conspiracies

 

[Munk]

The amazing thing though , is that the Yank gun lovers keep saying that they need guns to be safe.
Well , where was the John Wayne clones when the poo hit the fan, ( in any of these attacks)?
You'd think that there'd be hundreds of law abiding citizens streaming into the streets and defending anyone. Maybe it's all talk on their part.
On most occasions like this they must be hiding under the bed.
When the chance is there to do something good with their toys, they've run home to mummy
Typical Americans

There are thousands of documented cases every year in America where john citizen foils a robbery or an incident due to the fact he is carrying.
Americas shame isnt gun ownership, it is lack of care for the mentally ill.

 

[Yossarian]

The amazing thing though , is that the Yank gun lovers keep saying that they need guns to be safe.
Well , where was the John Wayne clones when the poo hit the fan, ( in any of these attacks)?
You'd think that there'd be hundreds of law abiding citizens streaming into the streets and defending anyone. Maybe it's all talk on their part.
On most occasions like this they must be hiding under the bed.
When the chance is there to do something good with their toys, they've run home to mummy
Typical Americans

There are thousands of documented cases every year in America where john citizen foils a robbery or an incident due to the fact he is carrying.
Americas shame isnt gun ownership, it is lack of care for the mentally ill.

The Las Vegas shooter had no recorded mental health issues as far as I know. He was however able to buy 33 guns in the last 12 months. Even by American standards that's ridiculous.

I have no idea whether your claim of thousands of those incidents is true. I do know that gun homicide statistics in the USA are miles over the per capita rates in other western countries. I'd dare say there are many examples of nervous Joe Citizens killing innocent parties and family member. Or themselves whether by accident or design.