Another failed year

[Spud_Murphy]

Maguire picks the side ...when you see the arm out from Benji ..seriously why bring him back .....

He contradicts himself ..says he isn't accepting mediocrity ..then repicks the bloke who lets in two tries v the Dogs

Reynolds may not have Benji skill but he would have put his ass on line ...and probably get injured for 6-8 weeks

That's what has got to me about Madge at this point...and I am fan.

But he has spat out so many "tough talk" lines...that he contradicts by his actions a game later. Finally we had a coach with the gonads to drop Marshall for good...only to bring him back and watch him be even worse.

And yet people on here want to re sign Marshall on the cheap for next year ???
Let Madge have a major clean out at years end
No more re signing nuffies
I would rather new nuffies then the ones we have got
Move Packer, Reynolds, Mbye on and get as much as we can
Say goodbye to Marshall Lawrence Jennings MCK McQueen Taylor Seyfarth and Clark
Get at least two top line players and 2 consistent 1st graders
The rest can be the best youth we can find
I'll give Madge the opportunity to clean out the garbage and fill the team with his players
Then I would hold him more accountability
He still has Ivan's mess to clean up

Another excuse for going backwards

you can not blame Madge for having
Packer
Reynolds and
Mbye on the books
That's 25% of our cap on duds
If he re signs them then you can blame him

Mate I am not blaming him for all the roster I’m just asking to see some improvements in the squad he does have to give me as a member and support some hope for the future and right now I am not seeing it

Yes one would think it would be a bit easier to convert a team that finished ninth into a finals contender than it would taking the last placed team there, but apparently not as is evidenced by both Parra and Newcastle easily making the finals since finishing with the spoon.

 

[Flash089]

The club needs to take our identity seriously, because right now it's a mish mash.

What are fans and players expected to stand for? 4 home grounds, new jerseys every year, new coaches every couple of years?

**First** - We need one home ground - I don't care where that is, but it needs to be ours. I reckon half the time we get pumped at Leichhardt is because of the build up of expectation...it adds so much pressure to the game to perform at Leichhardt...it's now counterproductive. Same with Campbelltown.

**Second** - pick a home and away jersey and run with it...one predominately black and one predominately orange. We don't need to change it every year. Get member input, make a choice and leave it alone!

I find it hilarious that we put the tiger and magpie on the jersey for tradition, yet change the kit each year. WT need to build their own tradition and it starts with a recognisable kit that doesn't change each season.

**Third** - Pick the coach and let him assemble his team and implement his changes. The only caveat being board approval for long-term, big money deals like Mbye, Packer etc.

**Fourth** - What brand of football are we going to play? What can you expect when you play the Wests Tigers? Right now, no one knows. I don't care whether it's attack based or defence based...just find a style and build the team to suit that style...just don't build a game plan based on defence and expect guys like Marshall to make the tackles that need to be made - he didn't make the tackles in 2005 and he won't be making them now.

Sheens won us a premiership with a team choc full of nuffies barring a few key players based on attack. He didn't try to sugar coat it...he was all in on the method and worked to his strengths.

The above is a start, but if we want players to want to play for the jersey and the club, we need to stand for something and give them something to play for.

Great post.
This is our identity. Half way between everything.

As a lover of wildlife documentaries that feature Apex Predators and not annoying squawky bin chickens, could i remind everyone that the Tiger is predominantly black and white underneath its black and gold top coat. We will always be Tigers no matter who pays. Lose the embarrassing bird.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The club needs to take our identity seriously, because right now it's a mish mash.

What are fans and players expected to stand for? 4 home grounds, new jerseys every year, new coaches every couple of years?

**First** - We need one home ground - I don't care where that is, but it needs to be ours. I reckon half the time we get pumped at Leichhardt is because of the build up of expectation...it adds so much pressure to the game to perform at Leichhardt...it's now counterproductive. Same with Campbelltown.

**Second** - pick a home and away jersey and run with it...one predominately black and one predominately orange. We don't need to change it every year. Get member input, make a choice and leave it alone!

I find it hilarious that we put the tiger and magpie on the jersey for tradition, yet change the kit each year. WT need to build their own tradition and it starts with a recognisable kit that doesn't change each season.

**Third** - Pick the coach and let him assemble his team and implement his changes. The only caveat being board approval for long-term, big money deals like Mbye, Packer etc.

**Fourth** - What brand of football are we going to play? What can you expect when you play the Wests Tigers? Right now, no one knows. I don't care whether it's attack based or defence based...just find a style and build the team to suit that style...just don't build a game plan based on defence and expect guys like Marshall to make the tackles that need to be made - he didn't make the tackles in 2005 and he won't be making them now.

Sheens won us a premiership with a team choc full of nuffies barring a few key players based on attack. He didn't try to sugar coat it...he was all in on the method and worked to his strengths.

The above is a start, but if we want players to want to play for the jersey and the club, we need to stand for something and give them something to play for.

Great post.
This is our identity. Half way between everything.

As a lover of wildlife documentaries that feature Apex Predators and not annoying squawky bin chickens, could i remind everyone that the Tiger is predominantly black and white underneath its black and gold top coat. We will always be Tigers no matter who pays. Lose the embarrassing bird.

We can, but then the club will be dead as they are ones paying the clubs bills.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

None of us are blind or numb to our historical mistakes.
The moment James Tedesco signed with the Roosters was exactly when it dawned upon us - that club management needed to make some major changes and what's ensued is the realisation that without players of a certain calibre and solid junior infrastructures, the construction of our team and any sustainabiliity of onfield success will always be problematic.

But I think the real lightbulb moment for many fans was Harry Grant's first performance.
His ability, confidence and leadership skills are first rate and supersedes the many highly skillful potential players we've had within the club over the years but recognising the difference of the system we have in comparison to the Storm, is the real kicker for us.
We're now getting a glimpse of what lacking players of his quality within the playing group looks like and want to join the likes of the Storm in being a club capable of nurturing and enhancing the development of emerging players/talent.

This is why I really like Madge as a coach, he's made it known that he wants to incorporate a future orientated framework with progressive pathways and create the more elite practices and standards.
This sort of thing doesn't take 2 years and our club administrators(Board directors, CEOs etc) need to also set the tone and endorse his vision. I agree with a few others on here that they've seem to dropped the ball since Madge's arrival. I;m sure only Lee has been the only person pretty vocal with our long term goals.

A terrific post, Lauren. What do you think are the "difference(s) of the system we have in comparison to the Storm"? And, from your perspective, why do they exist?

If you don't mind me answering part of your question, the most obvious difference is the Storm do not have juniors. WTs have a large junior base.

In some ways a huge junior area is a disadvantage due to the fact a lot of our resources need to be devoted to its management. The Storm and also Roosters have few if any juniors so their resources can be devoted to identifying the best juniors from other areas.

We need to be much better at what we do. The Panthers have shown the way, so we do not need to reinvent the wheel.

Identification, retention and pathways all need to be best practice. Potential roadblocks need in the junior system need to be identified and removed. This could be local rivalries between clubs or a talent scout with a fixed view on the stature of a potential recruit eg Ryan Papenhuyzen.

What Grant has also highlighted is that our all our juniors, both local and the best identified from elsewhere, need to be exposed to the best and most intensive training syllabus we can provide. The COE will greatly assist.

Perhaps the loan of some of our best young players to the Brisbane competition could improve their readiness for the NRL? Is a partnership with a Brisbane club viable?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The club needs to take our identity seriously, because right now it's a mish mash.

What are fans and players expected to stand for? 4 home grounds, new jerseys every year, new coaches every couple of years?

**First** - We need one home ground - I don't care where that is, but it needs to be ours. I reckon half the time we get pumped at Leichhardt is because of the build up of expectation...it adds so much pressure to the game to perform at Leichhardt...it's now counterproductive. Same with Campbelltown.

**Second** - pick a home and away jersey and run with it...one predominately black and one predominately orange. We don't need to change it every year. Get member input, make a choice and leave it alone!

I find it hilarious that we put the tiger and magpie on the jersey for tradition, yet change the kit each year. WT need to build their own tradition and it starts with a recognisable kit that doesn't change each season.

**Third** - Pick the coach and let him assemble his team and implement his changes. The only caveat being board approval for long-term, big money deals like Mbye, Packer etc.

**Fourth** - What brand of football are we going to play? What can you expect when you play the Wests Tigers? Right now, no one knows. I don't care whether it's attack based or defence based...just find a style and build the team to suit that style...just don't build a game plan based on defence and expect guys like Marshall to make the tackles that need to be made - he didn't make the tackles in 2005 and he won't be making them now.

Sheens won us a premiership with a team choc full of nuffies barring a few key players based on attack. He didn't try to sugar coat it...he was all in on the method and worked to his strengths.

The above is a start, but if we want players to want to play for the jersey and the club, we need to stand for something and give them something to play for.

Great post.
This is our identity. Half way between everything.

As a lover of wildlife documentaries that feature Apex Predators and not annoying squawky bin chickens, could i remind everyone that the Tiger is predominantly black and white underneath its black and gold top coat. We will always be Tigers no matter who pays. Lose the embarrassing bird.

Yeah, leave it there thanks.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

We are obviously doing something wrong. The fact that Newcastle came off the back of three consecutive spoons to sign Pearce, Klemmer, SKD, Guerra, Ponga, Ese'ese & Watson and have actually improved for it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with our approach.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

We are obviously doing something wrong. The fact that Newcastle came off the back of three consecutive spoons to sign Pearce, Klemmer, SKD, Guerra, Ponga, Ese'ese & Watson and have actually improved for it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with our approach.

The lifestyle would be a factor. Living in a nice place, near beaches. Being out of Sydney is probably apart of the appeal too.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Maguire picks the side ...when you see the arm out from Benji ..seriously why bring him back .....

He contradicts himself ..says he isn't accepting mediocrity ..then repicks the bloke who lets in two tries v the Dogs

Reynolds may not have Benji skill but he would have put his ass on line ...and probably get injured for 6-8 weeks

That's what has got to me about Madge at this point...and I am fan.

But he has spat out so many "tough talk" lines...that he contradicts by his actions a game later. Finally we had a coach with the gonads to drop Marshall for good...only to bring him back and watch him be even worse.

And yet people on here want to re sign Marshall on the cheap for next year ???
Let Madge have a major clean out at years end
No more re signing nuffies
I would rather new nuffies then the ones we have got
Move Packer, Reynolds, Mbye on and get as much as we can
Say goodbye to Marshall Lawrence Jennings MCK McQueen Taylor Seyfarth and Clark
Get at least two top line players and 2 consistent 1st graders
The rest can be the best youth we can find
I'll give Madge the opportunity to clean out the garbage and fill the team with his players
Then I would hold him more accountability
He still has Ivan's mess to clean up

Another excuse for going backwards

you can not blame Madge for having
Packer
Reynolds and
Mbye on the books
That's 25% of our cap on duds
If he re signs them then you can blame him

Mate I am not blaming him for all the roster I’m just asking to see some improvements in the squad he does have to give me as a member and support some hope for the future and right now I am not seeing it

Yes one would think it would be a bit easier to convert a team that finished ninth into a finals contender than it would taking the last placed team there, but apparently not as is evidenced by both Parra and Newcastle easily making the finals since finishing with the spoon.

That’s a really uninformed and simplistic take . The reason both clubs were able to get off the cellar floor was because they invested in the right juniors .
We also invested in the right juniors from 2013-2017 , only for some poor structures and governance put in place , as well as coaching .
This is no more apparent then with the whole Simona scandal . It pointed to a larger issue within the club.
Then Marina Go and the external board were put in place , the reduction of the Balmain influence , which was extremely toxic to the fabric of the club , and appointment of the wrong coach , who in his wisdom got the most influential player in the club offside , which totally destabilised the youth group coming through.
Brooks was a tigers tragic and his family fully imbedded in the Balmain district , so he had an instinctive loyalty . Not prevalent i. The others.
Then with Farah , benji , woods , etc all feeling like were bigger than the club , the young guys like teddy and Moses and even Simona fed off this toxic behaviour. Throw in some shady player managers and it was always going to blow up.
And it did . Spectacularly!
Then we decided to hire a guy , who on the service looked like the right bloke for the job . Only for him to have always had 1 eye back on his previous job . So he employs a whole bunch of old guys, specifically built to fight for a back end of the 8 and make himself return to a position of status . He leaves when the inevitable happens . At this point , we hire a guy , who actually wants to rebuild . Something that should have happened 5 years prior . He tries to move on these old guys, he signs a plethora of prestigious junior talent from around the country , yet mainly the first grade squad core , is the same , stop gap players employed over the previous 3-4 years .
Yet with Newcastle they blew their team up , played with kids for years , weeded out the Nuffies , and took a huge swing for the fences at an 18 year old phenom from NQ .
Parra , Employed the strategy of going after all the juniors who had left , because they were a basket case , and gone on to success. Like Moses , Matterson , Paulo etc .
They are both well into thier mountain climb . Despite appearances we are actually at the foot.

 

[twentyforty]

Lauren I can see you are a passionate WT supporter , an admirable quality considering what you’ve had to endure. 😝
You make some very valid points and I agree with most of your thinking. I’ve got a question though? You mention KPIs, should favourable fan behaviour be part of the clubs raison d’ etre? Or is fan behaviour whether good or bad simply acting as a thermometer giving us a reactionary appraisal of results?
My personal view.? Club administration should take notice of the fan base sentiment, but at the same time not waste energy , money and time trying to manage it. The fan base are not going to give the guys a standing ovation after a 50-0 defeat. Chasing that kind of result seems like a waste of energy. The behaviour and outcomes which need to be managed are the ones which actually produce results.

 

[Lauren]

@Tiger-Tragic I'm only a schoolteacher, however my partner is a business owner.
This year is the first year I'm not a member, but that was due to choosing to support my partner with any financial adjustments due to Covid.
Though I was in Cairns during Magic Rd last year and the last game I watched was on the Gold Coast in 2017? Or 18? Not too sure sorry. It's seems like forever and was always on my calendar for attendance. I still manage to spend thousands on merchandise though, I've 3 God children(2,3 & 6) so I often spoil them with tigers attire. They looooove the colours.
So I have no expertise yet try to take notice and really listen to the BF. But I'm fantastic with marketing or the commercial side of things lol.

@twentyforty
To put it simpler it works like customer reviews.
For example,
We have this New Shop(WT) and during their period of opening, a particular burger becomes it's Highest selling product. With most of the burgers ingredients being locally grown.
And it soon becomes well-renowned everywhere in the country - and in very high demand.
The owners however fall out with the local wagyu producer and has to go elsewhere.
And before too long the customers start complaining about the quality of the new beef used and start demanding the product be discounted.
Therefore the owners, who are in over their heads, cut the price to half price and before too long - due to losing funds - they're left to substitute the locally grown lettuce and tomatoes.
Meanwhile still heaping in the poor reviews.
So they decide to go down another avenue and start making the city's most bought burger... which I'll call sub burger.
They start wasting all these funds on marketing, promotions and whatnot - for sub burger - and continue to face further backlash because customers are feeling unheard.
Some choose to go to another store, but each person highly dissatisfied with the shop and start giving the rating an average 1-2 stars - a huge fall from the 5 star customer reviews in the earlier years.
In the meantime fake reviews(media) and health junkies also start giving the sub burger favourable reviews.
Fast forward 5 years and you look on the menu review pages and see that the Wagyu burger is now averagely rated at 1.5 stars with the sub burger at 5.
The shop's on the verge of being broke as only 5-10 people are buying the sub burger, while the initial burger is rarely bought due to the poor customer reviews.
The funny thing is nothing is really wrong with the burger, the local produce was fresher, but it's simply a beef burger and tastes the same as every other single one.
Yet sub burger which is the shop's most popular burger is this disgusting looking tofu burger that lacks any flavour.
So while customers have been so consumed on getting the beef burger back to it's original state, they've inadvertently helped cause the closure of a shop due to persistent negative critiquing - it's not only forced people to go elsewhere but also any other potential customers not to give their beef burger a try. No one really likes tofu burgers.

This is what our current team is - the substituted beef burger.
The reviews represent our brand image - how customers(us the fans) and any prospects perceive our club.
While our biggest selling product is a yucky tofu burger which is the media's portrayal - and isn't as significant in grand scheme of things.
Customers can choose what they please but their opinion is taken seriously by potential customers (recruits).

The passion we show is more powerful than we know. It prompts our loved ones to have a soft spot for the team and before too long draws them in - could be your kids, friends or whoever.
It's also why clubs like Parra are making a corporate impact in the NRL, their fans fully embrace them despite any of their historical challenges and the NRL loves this and celebrates this.
This is how it works, there's no better club endorser than the fan.
My apologies for using this analogy... I've had a couple of glasses of wine and my mind is a little on the blank side right now, so this was the only analogy I could think of right now.

 

[Harvey]

I like the previous reference to a Bin Chicken.

We should rebrand.

The insulated inner west Ibis'

 

[tony soprano]

Maguire Souths squad was much better than he pick here unless can pick up decent players looks like bit too much he can chew

 

[Harvey]

@Tiger-Tragic I'm only a schoolteacher, however my partner is a business owner.
This year is the first year I'm not a member, but that was due to choosing to support my partner with any financial adjustments due to Covid.
Though I was in Cairns during Magic Rd last year and the last game I watched was on the Gold Coast in 2017? Or 18? Not too sure sorry. It's seems like forever and was always on my calendar for attendance. I still manage to spend thousands on merchandise though, I've 3 God children(2,3 & 6) so I often spoil them with tigers attire. They looooove the colours.
So I have no expertise yet try to take notice and really listen to the BF. But I'm fantastic with marketing or the commercial side of things lol.

@twentyforty
To put it simpler it works like customer reviews.
For example,
We have this New Shop(WT) and during their period of opening, a particular burger becomes it's Highest selling product. With most of the burgers ingredients being locally grown.
And it soon becomes well-renowned everywhere in the country - and in very high demand.
The owners however fall out with the local wagyu producer and has to go elsewhere.
And before too long the customers start complaining about the quality of the new beef used and start demanding the product be discounted.
Therefore the owners, who are in over their heads, cut the price to half price and before too long - due to losing funds - they're left to substitute the locally grown lettuce and tomatoes.
Meanwhile still heaping in the poor reviews.
So they decide to go down another avenue and start making the city's most bought burger... which I'll call sub burger.
They start wasting all these funds on marketing, promotions and whatnot - for sub burger - and continue to face further backlash because customers are feeling unheard.
Some choose to go to another store, but each person highly dissatisfied with the shop and start giving the rating an average 1-2 stars - a huge fall from the 5 star customer reviews in the earlier years.
In the meantime fake reviews(media) and health junkies also start giving the sub burger favourable reviews.
Fast forward 5 years and you look on the menu review pages and see that the Wagyu burger is now averagely rated at 1.5 stars with the sub burger at 5.
The shop's on the verge of being broke as only 5-10 people are buying the sub burger, while the initial burger is rarely bought due to the poor customer reviews.
The funny thing is nothing is really wrong with the burger, the local produce was fresher, but it's simply a beef burger and tastes the same as every other single one.
Yet sub burger which is the shop's most popular burger is this disgusting looking tofu burger that lacks any flavour.
So while customers have been so consumed on getting the beef burger back to it's original state, they've inadvertently helped cause the closure of a shop due to persistent negative critiquing - it's not only forced people to go elsewhere but also any other potential customers not to give their beef burger a try. No one really likes tofu burgers.

This is what our current team is - the substituted beef burger.
The reviews represent our brand image - how customers(us the fans) and any prospects perceive our club.
While our biggest selling product is a yucky tofu burger which is the media's portrayal - and isn't as significant in grand scheme of things.
Customers can choose what they please but their opinion is taken seriously by potential customers (recruits).

The passion we show is more powerful than we know. It prompts our loved ones to have a soft spot for the team and before too long draws them in - could be your kids, friends or whoever.
It's also why clubs like Parra are making a corporate impact in the NRL, their fans fully embrace them despite any of their historical challenges and the NRL loves this and celebrates this.
This is how it works, there's no better club endorser than the fan.
My apologies for using this analogy... I've had a couple of glasses of wine and my mind is a little on the blank side right now, so this was the only analogy I could think of right now.

Hi Lauren,
Don't wish to call you out, but how is COVID related to membership? When I renewed mine, COVID was an unknown illness in a particular part of China. It was well into the new calendar year before it started impacting the world, and even later for Australia.

I am a little lost by your burger analogies but to try and convert it to rugby league, are you suggesting that in 2005 we had the great burger? Everyone frequented our shop and kept coming while the produce was fresh (while we were making finals up until 2011).

I cannot find any falling out with the producer, but rather the all of a sudden the producers (Ayoub and Moses) started selling us overpriced crap and we kept buying. We then had these producers and the kitchen hands (Farah and Marshall) also writing negative reviews.

To keep them happy we kept sacking head chefs (Sheens, Potter, Taylor). These employees also had to protect their reputation and also wrote negative reviews. We eventually hired an overpriced consultant (Cleary) who had no interest in returning our business to it's previous high point but rather, having been out of the food industry for some time and now somewhat irrelevant, was interested in promoting his own brand.

The consultant also introduced a degree of nepotism. He signed long term overpriced contracts with suppliers he was previously involved with (Packer, Matulino etc.). He also wanted to recruit his family member and when he could not make that work, he left us with his dodgy contract while he took the special sauce recipe elsewhere.

 

[twentyforty]

Lauren, I agree with you that wt is currently the substitute beefburger. As to how we got to this point is probably best understood over a glass of quality Barossa Shiraz. But nonetheless we are here. I guess what you’re saying is..to quote an overused cliche, voters get the government they want, or fans get the club they want? A valid point, however, where I feel we may disagree is in the pathway forward ?
Just as a good policy can catapult a politicians popularity so to would good governance of a footy club or a burger bar.
Would be interesting to know how the WT board get assessed on their performance?
There will be a few burgers missing from next years menu, let’s hope they are not the quality ones.
Anyway, I believe the best way forward is to support the coach and hope he holds firm on his convictions. He has put his reputation on the line to prove he can do what previous coaches could not.