Another failed year

[Telltails]

I think fans just need to adjust their expectations, as we're still suffering from an accumulation of effects - from poor governance of the past- in which the recovery process will take some time.
We have a unique and very complex set of challenges with its own limitations, and there are few options and solutions available to us right at this minute.

We're going in the right direction but it requires a little patience, as otherwise you'll be feeling a bit let down each and every time any structural issues in our foundations(club and team level) are revealed.
There's no magic wand just progressive actions to help overturn or correct/alleviate these problem areas.

We've brought Madge, Hartigan and Gray into our systems which is indicative of positive leadership changes from our administration. Now we wait out to see how this seeps down at team level, and despite the failure of consistently achieving better results or performances, we do know Madge has personally promoted standards to the group...this is where it begins.

Please do not take this the wrong way but fans just need to get real. We're never gonna be at elite level with our current playing group and we need show some patience.


Agree 100% Lauren. Big wheels turn slowly. My time horizon for higher expectation is 3 years from now when the CoE is fully operational, we still have the same coaching team, we have a very professional board and a team in the top 4 which is competitive in every game.

Big wheels keep on turning

Proud Madge keeps on burning

Rollin ...rollin ......rollin onto 13th

Makes you wonder how Tim Sheens conjured up a gf . He was truly remarkable.


Seems the more one analyses this situation the more confusing it becomes. The expert commentators in the msm and others, told us The new drill Sargent type coach was just what WT needed. Now those same experts are saying he’s too hard and he’s chopping and changing and he’s whatever?
So then we are delivered a constant flurry of happy players behaving like toddlers the night before Xmas.
The coaching job at WT is a tough gig, so many before Madge have found it impossible.
Actually, Tim Sheens left a lasting legacy if we care to learn from experience.
Our 2005 remarkable victory was provided by the players themselves. They made the decision to play like a committed team. We don’t need a uni degree in sports psychology to know that.

Sheens was bagged by a large percentage on this forum even after the success he achieved for creating the "boys club", having the team believe that they will score more than the opposition and not focus on defense making them soft and creating a poor culture, playing players out of position etc. Plenty were calling for him to be shown the door even before the backended salary cap fiasco - that sent this club backwards - was made public. Now we all look back on him fondly.
The one thing that never changes is that no matter who is responsible for making decisions there will be some that will be vehemently against them - especially when results are poor - thinking they know better and social media gives them a platform to drive those opinions and influence others. This was never a quick a fix, and Maguire was left with yet another salary cap disaster to navigate through not of his making.
I don't know if he is the coach to lead this club out of the doldrums but I believe the current situation we are in is largely not his doing, and he needs more time before fairly judging him. No surprise that we don't all agree.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

I think fans just need to adjust their expectations, as we're still suffering from an accumulation of effects - from poor governance of the past- in which the recovery process will take some time.
We have a unique and very complex set of challenges with its own limitations, and there are few options and solutions available to us right at this minute.

We're going in the right direction but it requires a little patience, as otherwise you'll be feeling a bit let down each and every time any structural issues in our foundations(club and team level) are revealed.
There's no magic wand just progressive actions to help overturn or correct/alleviate these problem areas.

We've brought Madge, Hartigan and Gray into our systems which is indicative of positive leadership changes from our administration. Now we wait out to see how this seeps down at team level, and despite the failure of consistently achieving better results or performances, we do know Madge has personally promoted standards to the group...this is where it begins.

Please do not take this the wrong way but fans just need to get real. We're never gonna be at elite level with our current playing group and we need show some patience.


Agree 100% Lauren. Big wheels turn slowly. My time horizon for higher expectation is 3 years from now when the CoE is fully operational, we still have the same coaching team, we have a very professional board and a team in the top 4 which is competitive in every game.

Big wheels keep on turning

Proud Madge keeps on burning

Rollin ...rollin ......rollin onto 13th

Makes you wonder how Tim Sheens conjured up a gf . He was truly remarkable.


Seems the more one analyses this situation the more confusing it becomes. The expert commentators in the msm and others, told us The new drill Sargent type coach was just what WT needed. Now those same experts are saying he’s too hard and he’s chopping and changing and he’s whatever?
So then we are delivered a constant flurry of happy players behaving like toddlers the night before Xmas.
The coaching job at WT is a tough gig, so many before Madge have found it impossible.
Actually, Tim Sheens left a lasting legacy if we care to learn from experience.
Our 2005 remarkable victory was provided by the players themselves. They made the decision to play like a committed team. We don’t need a uni degree in sports psychology to know that.

The rugby league digest just did a podcast where they interviewed Ben Darwin , the former wallaby. He now works in sports analytics , and , he was saying the biggest precursor to success is time . More than anything else. The more time you have together , the better you will go.
So ,as previously stated we have 7 players who were there game 1 last year, and not much more in the squad. And many of them didn’t play together at junior football(Penrith, Melbourne, roosters,Canberra, Souths,manly ,Cronulla,) just food for thought .

 

[bacon]

Second - pick a home and away jersey and run with it…one predominately black and one predominately orange. We don’t need to change it every year. Get member input, make a choice and leave it alone!
I find it hilarious that we put the tiger and magpie on the jersey for tradition, yet change the kit each year. WT need to build their own tradition and it starts with a recognisable kit that doesn’t change each season.

Love it and agree completely!

 

[innsaneink]

I was their and didnt here anyone booing the team off at HT or FT.

Why do people keep saying this happened - did the TV pretend that happened ?

I've seen footage of it... And whenever it happens there's always some happy clapper says "it's at the ref's"
They deserved to be booed and pelted with rotten fruit

 

[earl]

Game 1 2019
1 Thompson
2 Fonua
3 Momo
4 Masters
5 Jennings
6 Marshall
7 Brooks
8 Matalino
9 Farah
10 Twal
11 Matterson
12 Garner
13 Taylor

14 Packer
15 Mikaele
16 Aloiai
17 Chee-Kam

7 of these guys are no longer at the club
Another 3 (Jennings, Taylor, Chee-Kam) are not in the top 21
Others in this team have been dropped for periods

There has been a huge amount of change.

We are currently handicapped by a fine and some contracts that for whatever reason have not had the value the staff expected.

If we pay 50% of Packer's, Mbye's and Reynold's salary for them to play at another club, we will be handicapped by $1.1M next year.

To get good, hard working, <28yo players that are not always suspended or broken, we will have to pay overs.

As an example say Roosters get a 20% discount on players because they have a good system and they win, their 2021 salary cap is equivalent to $11.88M.

Tigers have to pay 20% overs and if we are paying 50% of Packer's, Mbye's and Reynold's salary for them to play at another club. Our salary cap would be equivalent to $6.82M.

I know everyone is angry and wants to vent but "Change everything" and "Move on players at any cost" is just asking for a lot more years of pain.

Madge isn't perfect and some of his decisions are questionable if you don't have the same information that he does.

It doesn't matter how long you have been waiting to see your team play finals football, the club has a good plan and is moving forward. The way the salary cap works is stacked against the bottom 8 teams so it is very difficult to change from a losing team to a winning one.

Great post. Way too many posters on here are illogical. We need to be patient and slowly build. It can turn around quickly but to me that means we slowly build and then if we somehow have a couple of juniors come through who aren't dogs we could turn into a top team.

We should be managing the cap and not trying to get rid of players at all costs. A good example is Benji. To me he has had a really poor season after some good seasons and it's due to his defense being terrible. The problem is he doesn't cost much and getting rid of him won't help us much. Getting rid of Packer, Reynolds and Mbye on their current dollar contracts is a no brainer but no club will take that on.

We need to be patient and trust in Madge.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

the one home ground is irrelevant if we win football games. If we go by that earlier post wests ashfield then ANZ is where we should play but again if we win games supporters will come anywhere.
Agree with the jersey we should have one black and one orange jersey and leave them alone perhaps alternate as home and away each year, for heavens sake bring back an orange jersey!

 

[twentyforty]

I think fans just need to adjust their expectations, as we're still suffering from an accumulation of effects - from poor governance of the past- in which the recovery process will take some time.
We have a unique and very complex set of challenges with its own limitations, and there are few options and solutions available to us right at this minute.

We're going in the right direction but it requires a little patience, as otherwise you'll be feeling a bit let down each and every time any structural issues in our foundations(club and team level) are revealed.
There's no magic wand just progressive actions to help overturn or correct/alleviate these problem areas.

We've brought Madge, Hartigan and Gray into our systems which is indicative of positive leadership changes from our administration. Now we wait out to see how this seeps down at team level, and despite the failure of consistently achieving better results or performances, we do know Madge has personally promoted standards to the group...this is where it begins.

Please do not take this the wrong way but fans just need to get real. We're never gonna be at elite level with our current playing group and we need show some patience.


Agree 100% Lauren. Big wheels turn slowly. My time horizon for higher expectation is 3 years from now when the CoE is fully operational, we still have the same coaching team, we have a very professional board and a team in the top 4 which is competitive in every game.

Big wheels keep on turning

Proud Madge keeps on burning

Rollin ...rollin ......rollin onto 13th

Makes you wonder how Tim Sheens conjured up a gf . He was truly remarkable.


Seems the more one analyses this situation the more confusing it becomes. The expert commentators in the msm and others, told us The new drill Sargent type coach was just what WT needed. Now those same experts are saying he’s too hard and he’s chopping and changing and he’s whatever?
So then we are delivered a constant flurry of happy players behaving like toddlers the night before Xmas.
The coaching job at WT is a tough gig, so many before Madge have found it impossible.
Actually, Tim Sheens left a lasting legacy if we care to learn from experience.
Our 2005 remarkable victory was provided by the players themselves. They made the decision to play like a committed team. We don’t need a uni degree in sports psychology to know that.

The rugby league digest just did a podcast where they interviewed Ben Darwin , the former wallaby. He now works in sports analytics , and , he was saying the biggest precursor to success is time . More than anything else. The more time you have together , the better you will go.
So ,as previously stated we have 7 players who were there game 1 last year, and not much more in the squad. And many of them didn’t play together at junior football(Penrith, Melbourne, roosters,Canberra, Souths,manly ,Cronulla,) just food for thought .

Absolutely, I prefer to refer to it as continuity. But it’s the same concept, I think? Traditional core values embedded within the culture. Thanks for the heads up I’ll see if I can find that Ben Darwin interview.
If you have a core group of players working toward a common goal and the players are resolutely convinced that those values will help them achieve their goals, both individually and as a team, inevitably the teams core values stay with the team because they are seen as being of far more importance than any individual. That core group of players must be a majority and regardless of changes in the roster the values, core beliefs, call it what you like, must remain, as in any traditional sense. Makes it hard on merged clubs who are dealing with a couple of belief systems to introduce a new one . We’ve got to put more focus on tradition I reckon. We can’t be changing our victory song every time a coach leaves. It has to be something of higher significance. Just as an example.
That’s just my opinion, many may disagree. But there has to be more to it than just a job as a professional athlete.

 

[Russell]

Move to Perth
Start fresh

Stop it.

Nah it would be good
NRL kicks in 20 Mil
One home ground
West’s Tigers Forum could charter flights
Still get to see them play in Sydney against Parra / Souths / Chooks etc

I don't like you, you used to be cool

Don’t you live in Perth ?

Maybe the Balmain side of this club is the PROBLEM.

What Balmain side??????

They have no money, make no decisions, and supply a few juniors.

How are they the PROBLEM? Please explain.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Move to Perth
Start fresh

Stop it.

Nah it would be good
NRL kicks in 20 Mil
One home ground
West’s Tigers Forum could charter flights
Still get to see them play in Sydney against Parra / Souths / Chooks etc

I don't like you, you used to be cool

Don’t you live in Perth ?

Maybe the Balmain side of this club is the PROBLEM.

What Balmain side??????

They have no money, make no decisions, and supply a few juniors.

How are they the PROBLEM? Please explain.

Exactly. It's all Wests Ashfield these days.

 

[TYGA]

This will be the case again next year. West’s Tigers need to give Madge another 2 years giving the coach 5 years to turn the place around. There are no quick fixes and in my view the only way we will challenge is when kids come through and our young players with 50+ games start to become great players.

The core group that has to take us forward are Luciano, Aloai, Twal, Utoikamanu, Talau, Douihei, Kepoa, Blore, McIntyre, Liddle.

Brooks should be the first one named but I feel his days are numbered he needs a change of scenery if we can sign a replacement.

Kids coming through Simpkin, Madden, William Kei, Camroux, Bradley, Cini, Johns.

We need to be smart and add players that will be good in 2-3 years time so our recruits have to be 26 or younger. A few veterans will be needed in the interim but low priced winners that are role players at better clubs.

 

[Strider]

I think its reasonable to expect to miss the finals next year with hopefully some improvement and aim for 2022 finals with some solid signings over that time.

 

[tigerbalm]

I think its reasonable to expect to miss the finals next year with hopefully some improvement and aim for 2022 finals with some solid signings over that time.

so we cant even say " there's always next year" anymore?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

This will be the case again next year. West’s Tigers need to give Madge another 2 years giving the coach 5 years to turn the place around. There are no quick fixes and in my view the only way we will challenge is when kids come through and our young players with 50+ games start to become great players.

The core group that has to take us forward are Luciano, Aloai, Twal, Utoikamanu, Talau, Douihei, Kepoa, Blore, McIntyre, Liddle.

Brooks should be the first one named but I feel his days are numbered he needs a change of scenery if we can sign a replacement.

Kids coming through Simpkin, Madden, William Kei, Camroux, Bradley, Cini, Johns.

We need to be smart and add players that will be good in 2-3 years time so our recruits have to be 26 or younger. A few veterans will be needed in the interim but low priced winners that are role players at better clubs.

Im not too sure about the brooks thing . To me he looks to have zero support staff on that left edge . And teams have worked out that luci is a beast , so you need to get him before he winds up. Mbye is offering nothing at centre . He rarely runs a good line , which is what brooks needs to cook . He needs bodies in motion , and there just isn’t any on the left . I keep saying it , but Joey should go to the left . It will attract defenders away from brooks . Everyone knows brooks will run if you jam up on the outside . But if you put a strike centre next to him , you can’t give Joey that kind of space .
Where as on the right , everyone knows benji is looking to drift to attract defenders to put someone else away . But when he does he closes down the space for Joey to work .
That’s my impression . It will also go a long way to fixing the defence . Anyways I’ve said it a few times .

 

[Russell]

This will be the case again next year. West’s Tigers need to give Madge another 2 years giving the coach 5 years to turn the place around. There are no quick fixes and in my view the only way we will challenge is when kids come through and our young players with 50+ games start to become great players.

The core group that has to take us forward are Luciano, Aloai, Twal, Utoikamanu, Talau, Douihei, Kepoa, Blore, McIntyre, Liddle.

Brooks should be the first one named but I feel his days are numbered he needs a change of scenery if we can sign a replacement.

Kids coming through Simpkin, Madden, William Kei, Camroux, Bradley, Cini, Johns.

We need to be smart and add players that will be good in 2-3 years time so our recruits have to be 26 or younger. A few veterans will be needed in the interim but low priced winners that are role players at better clubs.

Im not too sure about the brooks thing . To me he looks to have zero support staff on that left edge . And teams have worked out that luci is a beast , so you need to get him before he winds up. Mbye is offering nothing at centre . He rarely runs a good line , which is what brooks needs to cook . He needs bodies in motion , and there just isn’t any on the left . I keep saying it , but Joey should go to the left . It will attract defenders away from brooks . Everyone knows brooks will run if you jam up on the outside . But if you put a strike centre next to him , you can’t give Joey that kind of space .
Where as on the right , everyone knows benji is looking to drift to attract defenders to put someone else away . But when he does he closes down the space for Joey to work .
That’s my impression . It will also go a long way to fixing the defence . Anyways I’ve said it a few times .

Think you are correct - the idea is right, not sure of who goes where but Brooks needs runners too give him options and to take the emphasis of him, gives him a little more room to run himself.

 

[westy81]

All we can hope for this year is that we can get some good signings for next year as well as offload the big contracted players, even if it’s 1 of the big contracts on our books

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Just pick the players you are going to keep in 2021 to give them some game time.
This season is gone lets think of 2021.
Better roster get rid of some deadwood and sign some better players that want to play finals.

 

[TYGA]

This will be the case again next year. West’s Tigers need to give Madge another 2 years giving the coach 5 years to turn the place around. There are no quick fixes and in my view the only way we will challenge is when kids come through and our young players with 50+ games start to become great players.

The core group that has to take us forward are Luciano, Aloai, Twal, Utoikamanu, Talau, Douihei, Kepoa, Blore, McIntyre, Liddle.

Brooks should be the first one named but I feel his days are numbered he needs a change of scenery if we can sign a replacement.

Kids coming through Simpkin, Madden, William Kei, Camroux, Bradley, Cini, Johns.

We need to be smart and add players that will be good in 2-3 years time so our recruits have to be 26 or younger. A few veterans will be needed in the interim but low priced winners that are role players at better clubs.

Im not too sure about the brooks thing . To me he looks to have zero support staff on that left edge . And teams have worked out that luci is a beast , so you need to get him before he winds up. Mbye is offering nothing at centre . He rarely runs a good line , which is what brooks needs to cook . He needs bodies in motion , and there just isn’t any on the left . I keep saying it , but Joey should go to the left . It will attract defenders away from brooks . Everyone knows brooks will run if you jam up on the outside . But if you put a strike centre next to him , you can’t give Joey that kind of space .
Where as on the right , everyone knows benji is looking to drift to attract defenders to put someone else away . But when he does he closes down the space for Joey to work .
That’s my impression . It will also go a long way to fixing the defence . Anyways I’ve said it a few times .

He has Leilua on his left but I agree with Mbye as your centre and Talau who looks like a strike centre in the wing he has no real potency. They mark up on him and Luciano he has no options out the back. Our attack is heavily right sided for good reason with BJ, Nofa on that side.

 

[ChilledChaos]

Only Luciano and Nofa would make the starting side of another club! Feel for these two guys, they try their guts out every week! That’s how rubbish we are! I’m sick and tired of Madge continually giving players who play with no passion, no pride, NOTHING! A bunch of old, overpaid pea hearts only there for their pay check who should be retired already!

Packer is honestly not even a park footballer! How can you possibly accept 3 runs and 15 metres, 4 missed tackles and 1 error for a 800k starting fwd! That is honestly disgusting!

Benji needs to retire ASAP before he honestly ruins his legacy forever! Not ready to put his body on the line anymore! Pure arm grabbing at its finest

Mbye is deadset the WORST CAPTAIN I have ever seen in rugby league! The guy doesn’t lead from the front, can’t make a 1 on 1 tackle without slipping over or getting palmed off to save his life, is the worst goal kicker in the comp, never talks to the refs or challenges their decisions, never inspires his teammates with his talk or ability to lead from the front! Like seriously WTF is he there for! And getting paid 950k per year! That is seriously taking the piss! Fk him off.

Then you got McQueen, Reynolds, Taylor who should also be retired by now!

We have the slowest fwds in the game in Eisenhuth, Packer etc. who never put a dent into opposition defenses, have no post contact metres whatsoever! No offloads, no tackle breaking ability NOTHING!!!

We also have the slowest players in the game! When Talau made that intercept every team would have scored that try except us because we are too frickin slow to get to the line to create the shift!

The last 10 years have been the same 1 out runs for a 5th tackle end over end bomb that is never contested!

 

[Hangonaminute]

What do we do next? Build on this year or go for another cleanout?

I sometimes feel sorry for the staff and players, how could they have any pride for the jersey with a history like ours?

There's no such thing, when you have players jumping ship halfway through the season there's no "pride in the jersey" anymore, that's all gone for every club.
Remember, we played against Blake Green in back to back weeks for two different clubs, "pride in the jersey is a myth"

 

[Hangonaminute]

I would not play anyone who is not in our plans for next year
The last game of the year Lawrence and Marshall can play for the service they have given our club as a sign of respect
The rest can get stuffed
No more Nuffies
Major changes required

So we'd have to forfeit, can't field a team of Grant Nofo Rowdy and Benji