Another Quick Forum Update

[MacDougall]

This is a sad day for the forum. I’ll show my cards by declaring I’m a good mate of @cochise . Hi is a passionate, dedicated mod who puts hours into helping maintain standards. @willow I don’t know but he does the same. The standards on this forum are due to our mods. It’s largely a pleasant place because of them. The way these two mods were treated including the lack of communication around the changes was unprofessional and poor. They both deserve better.
I, like many, have posted less and less over the past 6 months because of the drop in standards and increase in negative and personally abusive posting. I fear this will increase. Very sad I think.

The standards on this forum are due to the mods.

The standards have dropped over the past 6 months.

Conflicting.
Anyway, change is as good as a holiday.

You seem to be deathriding them demps ? almost gloating dare I say ? I’m not judging , you did get banned for a few years . But do you honestly think it’s going to be noticeably better ? If at all. What happens if the new mods have an axe to grind against someone else ?
Then the whole thing begins again? Has it really been that bad ?

In response to @demps it is not conflicting. The standards have dropped because the mods have had their hands tied and have been unable to operate without interference

Well, don't be too shy to do your part as an individual to uphold the standards of this place..

Evil prevails when the good do nothing.

Cochise and Willow aren't banned it seems, they're free to post like the rest of us. We've all read the in fighting going on within this group. Let's uplift and support each other.

The show must go on...

The only thing keeping this place together was the mods . This place is finished.

It's an Internet forum.... stop being so damn dramatic ? mods just ban people who abuse other people, that's it. They'll hire other people to do that and the forum will keep on chugging.

Not dramatic, I used to like the forum but it’s descended pretty badly. This will make it worse. Got better things to do with my time. See ya.

Definitely dramataic. Bailing before you even see how it goes! If you have better things to do then that's a good thing mate, all the best!

Come back when we are winning more than we lose and this place will be booming ?

Avo is basing his opinion off months of regression that this forum has experienced. It’s not just an overnight thing cos 2 mods were removed

Fair..

However (not you directly, well maybe you....) continually adding to the negative petty squabbling with name calling and whatnot is not helpful.

Clearly the goal is the return the place to its former glory.

We can do this.
Let's work together.

@avocadoontoast you good mate?

There's no returning a website based forum to it's former glory when the technology has been superceded by superior tech. That's like trying to get a Datsun 180B to win Bathurst. The best you can hope for is making it a nice place for us boomers who want to avoid the scary young kids on Discord can talk about the old days without being called names we don't understand.

 

[Geo]

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.

Hmmm .. the person who posted that is on this forum right now..what would your decision be about banning them .. i would also throw my support behind you if you where interested in becoming a moderator here…

 

[ConePuncher]

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.


Where do you draw the line? What if it was a death threat? Do police ever look at it from the POV of someone making the threat?

That's a ridiculous analogy. And in your analogy, the lawyers and the courts would look at the circumstances behind said death threat before sentencing.

But again GNR, you're refusing to look inwards and acknowledge that there was a part to play from all parties in this.

What do you mean again? I already told you that I was as much a part of the problem as much anyone else. A point you acknowledged, yet you want to still bring it up.

Your comment I quoted was pretty obvious finger pointing at others.

 

[MacDougall]

This isnt that hard.

Everyone simply dont be toxic.

Be cool

Everyone on the internet has been conditioned to be toxic because product owners of social media platforms recognise that toxicity = revenue and designed their platforms to reward and encourage it.

Don't blame us peasants, blame Zuck and his mates. The only way you're going to ensure this place isn't toxic is with strict moderation like Willow promoted. But then you are alienating more and more fans who kinda demand to be able to engage as though they're on Reddit. Without that flexibility, well they just go off to Reddit and Discord. Catch 22.

 

[earl]

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

I hope Kul didn't take his advice from anyone who posted that sort of dribble. That is the sort of behavior that shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[ConePuncher]

This isnt that hard.

Everyone simply dont be toxic.

Be cool

Everyone on the internet has been conditioned to be toxic because product owners of social media platforms recognise that toxicity = revenue and designed their platforms to reward and encourage it.

Don't blame us peasants, blame Zuck and his mates. The only way you're going to ensure this place isn't toxic is with strict moderation like Willow promoted. But then you are alienating more and more fans who kinda demand to be able to engage as though they're on Reddit. Without that flexibility, well they just go off to Reddit and Discord. Catch 22.

There is a middle ground, and I'm hoping that is what Kul is trying to achieve. He and the mod team have my support.

 

[MacDougall]

From my point of view i appreciate everything that Willow and Cochise have done over the years and helped make this forum a far better forum than the cesspits that the independant dogs and eels forums are.Those forums are poisonous

I would agree this place is the best fan forum of any of the clubs based on what I've seen, but it's not about comparing it to those hellholes... it's about comparing it to Facebook supporter groups, Discord and r/nrl.

 

[jirskyr]

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.
Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.
To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.
It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

What I don't understand is - if "other types of fans" created their own way of supporting the club, and found that the new "thing" was good and worked for them, why the need to come back to the forum, or complain about the forum, or ask the owner to change the style of the forum - or any combination of those?

I mean if the Discord experience is that good for the Discorders, they can't be happy with that? I don't use the Discord because I only need / want 1 outlet for my Tigers thinking. I don't have the time or desire to manage multiple social media presences.

I believe you that there are disgruntled or disenfranchised former forum contributors. There are also hundreds or thousands of active members in the forum under it's current set up - many of those must be OK with the way it's been running. It remains to be seen if the member experience will improve or not during the next few months.

Personally I've experienced the opposite of what you are explaining. I think this Forum is a standard above any other rugby league social platform I have yet experienced. I agree sometimes the mods have been heavy-handed, but like referees, they are human and don't have their best performance every week.

I think it's a naive statement to say that only "strongly opinionated" people were being banned. I have seen a lot of petty short-term accounts come and go, starting arguments then disappearing. I'm not a mod, but I would guess the "well thought out" posters are on the minority of those banned. Truly, by definition, well thought out posts should not require moderation... otherwise they are not so well thought out.

 

[Chicken_Faced_Killa]

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.


Where do you draw the line? What if it was a death threat? Do police ever look at it from the POV of someone making the threat?

Where do you draw the line?
Personal threats should be out and personal attacks should also be out.

People seemed to be getting banned for minor things like disagreeing with someone and calling them a fool, Saying ‘punt him’ multiple times, criticising others. These things are all okay for a forum as long as they don’t get personal. Posts were getting deleted for any minor reason that could be found. There are pages of threads ‘this post has been deleted’. It’s not really the moderators fault as they were working within the current guidelines but some discretion could have been shown or posters could have been worked with to readjust their behaviour.

I asked this earlier but what do people want the place to look like moving forward?

Now’s the chance to focus on the future of the place.

 

[Demps]

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.

Hmmm .. the person who posted that is on this forum right now..what would your decision be about banning them .. i would also throw my support behind you if you where interested in becoming a moderator here…

What are your thoughts Geo?

Should we ban some one cos one user doesn't like them?
If that's the case, then it should be fair.
So in turn, a lot of people would be banned because some one doesn't like them?

What is the ideal outcome @cochise ?

Do you want a user removed ?
Do you want an apology ?
Do you want the LU stuff taken down ?

What's done is done.
How can we move forward?

You clearly don't want to stop posting.
No one has asked you to stop posting.

Let's work out an outcome and move on with it.

 

[MacDougall]

This isnt that hard.

Everyone simply dont be toxic.

Be cool

Everyone on the internet has been conditioned to be toxic because product owners of social media platforms recognise that toxicity = revenue and designed their platforms to reward and encourage it.

Don't blame us peasants, blame Zuck and his mates. The only way you're going to ensure this place isn't toxic is with strict moderation like Willow promoted. But then you are alienating more and more fans who kinda demand to be able to engage as though they're on Reddit. Without that flexibility, well they just go off to Reddit and Discord. Catch 22.

There is a middle ground, and I'm hoping that is what Kul is trying to achieve. He and the mod team have my support.

There is a place for websites and it's user acquisition. Sure if nothing changed here there'd still be the die-hards having conversations using the old forum but if we really wanted to grow the userbase here and turn it into the number 1 Wests Tigers fan community we should be finding ways to utilise the other platforms not compete with them. Which I believe has started already. I'm excited to see how it all pans out.

 

[earl]

This isnt that hard.

Everyone simply dont be toxic.

Be cool

I totally agree with this. This thread is blowing my mind.

 

[MacDougall]

This isnt that hard.

Everyone simply dont be toxic.

Be cool

I totally agree with this. This thread is blowing my mind.

Dude we live in an era where people shoot each other because of whether they wear a red hat or a blue one. People getting mad each other on a sports forum is not shocking in the slighest lol.

 

[ConePuncher]

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.
Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.
To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.
It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

What I don't understand is - if "other types of fans" created their own way of supporting the club, and found that the new "thing" was good and worked for them, why the need to come back to the forum, or complain about the forum, or ask the owner to change the style of the forum - or any combination of those?

I mean if the Discord experience is that good for the Discorders, they can't be happy with that? I don't use the Discord because I only need / want 1 outlet for my Tigers thinking. I don't have the time or desire to manage multiple social media presences.

I believe you that there are disgruntled or disenfranchised former forum contributors. There are also hundreds or thousands of active members in the forum under it's current set up - many of those must be OK with the way it's been running. It remains to be seen if the member experience will improve or not during the next few months.

Personally I've experienced the opposite of what you are explaining. I think this Forum is a standard above any other rugby league social platform I have yet experienced. I agree sometimes the mods have been heavy-handed, but like referees, they are human and don't have their best performance every week.

I think it's a naive statement to say that only "strongly opinionated" people were being banned. I have seen a lot of petty short-term accounts come and go, starting arguments then disappearing. I'm not a mod, but I would guess the "well thought out" posters are on the minority of those banned. Truly, by definition, well thought out posts should not require moderation... otherwise they are not so well thought out.

Re your last paragraph that was the entire problem. "well thought out posters" who were not getting banned was up to the dription of the

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.


Where do you draw the line? What if it was a death threat? Do police ever look at it from the POV of someone making the threat?

Where do you draw the line?
Personal threats should be out and personal attacks should also be out.

People seemed to be getting banned for minor things like disagreeing with someone and calling them a fool, Saying ‘punt him’ multiple times, criticising others. These things are all okay for a forum as long as they don’t get personal. Posts were getting deleted for any minor reason that could be found. There are pages of threads ‘this post has been deleted’. It’s not really the moderators fault as they were working within the current guidelines but some discretion could have been shown or posters could have been worked with to readjust their behaviour.

I asked this earlier but what do people want the place to look like moving forward?

Now’s the chance to focus on the future of the place.

I'd like a place where we can talk as we do in real life, that includes swear words and banter. I'd also like to see personal attacks eliminated. I'd like a less hands on approach from the moderating team than previously existed.

I love the current forum structure and would like that to stay.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.


Where do you draw the line? What if it was a death threat? Do police ever look at it from the POV of someone making the threat?

That's a ridiculous analogy. And in your analogy, the lawyers and the courts would look at the circumstances behind said death threat before sentencing.

But again GNR, you're refusing to look inwards and acknowledge that there was a part to play from all parties in this.

What do you mean again? I already told you that I was as much a part of the problem as much anyone else. A point you acknowledged, yet you want to still bring it up.

Your comment I quoted was pretty obvious finger pointing at others.

No idea how you interpreted that way. I was responding to a comment that said a comment as vile as that should warrant having an administrator seeing things from that persons POV. I thought it was fair to ask where the line would be where the admin shouldn’t. Death threats? I think it’s a reasonable question. Where is the line?

 

[ConePuncher]

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.
Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.
To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.
It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

What I don't understand is - if "other types of fans" created their own way of supporting the club, and found that the new "thing" was good and worked for them, why the need to come back to the forum, or complain about the forum, or ask the owner to change the style of the forum - or any combination of those?

I mean if the Discord experience is that good for the Discorders, they can't be happy with that? I don't use the Discord because I only need / want 1 outlet for my Tigers thinking. I don't have the time or desire to manage multiple social media presences.

I believe you that there are disgruntled or disenfranchised former forum contributors. There are also hundreds or thousands of active members in the forum under it's current set up - many of those must be OK with the way it's been running. It remains to be seen if the member experience will improve or not during the next few months.

Personally I've experienced the opposite of what you are explaining. I think this Forum is a standard above any other rugby league social platform I have yet experienced. I agree sometimes the mods have been heavy-handed, but like referees, they are human and don't have their best performance every week.

I think it's a naive statement to say that only "strongly opinionated" people were being banned. I have seen a lot of petty short-term accounts come and go, starting arguments then disappearing. I'm not a mod, but I would guess the "well thought out" posters are on the minority of those banned. Truly, by definition, well thought out posts should not require moderation... otherwise they are not so well thought out.

Re your last paragraph that was the entire problem. "well thought out posters" who were not getting banned was up to the descretion of the mods. That's not fair.

Having been on this forum and previous forum incarnations for a number of years ive enjoyed the banter and many differing opinions put forward by its members.

There is no better site on the internet or social media platforms to gauge what the Wests Tigers community is thinking about certain topics. It has been a reflection of the ride that we have all been on.

What i love more than anything else is someone with a strong opinion. Someone who is not afraid to speak their mind and offer pure opinion based comments. What i hate more than anything else on here has been people who react negatively to these strong opinions while hardly ever offering their own . The guys who come out of the woodwork and harrass the OP for that opinion. Banging on and on trying to force a reaction or make them regretful of ever commenting in the first place.

This has been an issue for many years. Willows moderation style was to ban the person forced into a reaction rather than pull up the person responsible. The person who was not accepting of other peoples opinion. It was a style Cochise also fell victim to.

Over the years many many previously decent contributors were banned. One by one they fell on their sword while trying to defend their opinions.

While i applaud the efforts of all moderators and argue they almost always moderated to the rules the trouble was that the only people being banned were those with the strong and well thought out opinions.

Becoming tired of the stale nature of this place. I found myself on Discord recently.

To my surprise here was a group of so called troublemakers all getting a long like life long friends. I guess thats what happens when they all feel they have been treated poorly by those they had looked to to validate their right to have an opinion.

It was and still is a thing of beauty. I myself have mended a few bridges and now get on well with people who i had fell out with on this forum. Why, well thats the million dollar question.

The answer it seems is that when you allow people to express themselves to their full extent, like minded people with strong opinions come to respect those who disagree with them.

This has all come about not because of Discord but because someone posted a thread on League Unlimited about how bad this place had become.

The forum was not just over moderated but also housed a small group of guys who were chiefly responsible for many people being banned or turning their backs on the forum. The general consensus on League unlimited was that the moderation of this site was not paying enough attention to these agitators and had made this place a less enjoyable place to post.

Kul was made aware of the League Unlimited thread and i am not shocked at all he has made this decision.

Former user after former user of his forum all come forward with testimony to the same story. These were not Discord people these were League Unlimited people and their opinions carried a certain level of impartiality. A few of the Discord lads posted and told a similar story however the point is that they were not alone in this common story. A large section of of our fan base had turned their back on Kuls forum.

The issue was the style of moderation.

Let me be clear the issue was not the existence of moderation and rules. Everyone understands that it needs to exist and most people want a forum with clear guidelines and a family friendly environment.

@Kul appreciate you looking to improve this place. I have no doubt that many will return if the moderation style changes.

A thread that contained many personal attacks such as

There is another moderator called Cochise (we all call him ck cheese), who still gets bullied. He is a fat ugly baldy headed ginger [censored] with a big fat gunt. This guy is possibly the biggest fanboy loser I’ve ever encountered. He runs that soft ck supporters group ambush which gets ridiculed everywhere. He bans people who disagree with him as his intellect and knowledge are sub par.

Plus more against other posters here. That is where kul took his advice.

No I'd say that is where KUL asked himself why they are so upset.

No that stuff is unacceptable for any reason at all. The kind of person that tees off like that on a forum should be banned, deserves it.

100% no issue with a banning for that kind of posting.

But as ive said if it was my forum id ask why are people so upset. I suggest you try and see it from Kuls point of view.


Where do you draw the line? What if it was a death threat? Do police ever look at it from the POV of someone making the threat?

Where do you draw the line?
Personal threats should be out and personal attacks should also be out.

People seemed to be getting banned for minor things like disagreeing with someone and calling them a fool, Saying ‘punt him’ multiple times, criticising others. These things are all okay for a forum as long as they don’t get personal. Posts were getting deleted for any minor reason that could be found. There are pages of threads ‘this post has been deleted’. It’s not really the moderators fault as they were working within the current guidelines but some discretion could have been shown or posters could have been worked with to readjust their behaviour.

I asked this earlier but what do people want the place to look like moving forward?

Now’s the chance to focus on the future of the place.

I'd like a place where we can talk as we do in real life, that includes swear words and banter. I'd also like to see personal attacks eliminated. I'd like a less hands on approach from the moderating team than previously existed.

I love the current forum structure and would like that to stay.

 

[MacDougall]

Let it all out guys.

Lol I am loving this Kul heel turn personally. It's so subtle.

 

[jirskyr]

Anyway are we allowed to swear and stuff now, is the "new era" starting now, or is there some sort of transition period?

I couldn't even get c-o-c-k-y past the automod last week.

 

[MacDougall]

Speaking of the Discord, someone send me a link to it please lol.

 

[MacDougall]

Anyway are we allowed to swear and stuff now, is the "new era" starting now, or is there some sort of transition period?

I couldn't even get c-o-c-k-y past the automod last week.

Crap.