Balmain seek extension..Wests Tigers

[Go_Moltzen]

Couldn't wests tigers change to wests magpies just like balmain tigers changed to sydney tigers?

Yes, Wests Ashfield could propose to change the Wests Tigers NRL team name in the future.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Geez, why would someone mention bringing back the Magpies again. Enough of that crap.

The Wests Tigers Board (and that of Ashfield) have categorically stated the brand is Wests Tigers and will remain that way permanently.

The NRL have stated the license is with the Wests Tigers and no name change will be permitted.

And lastly anyone with half a brain knows the Tiger as an emblem is one of the most powerful in sport. Why Balmain was so sought after for a merger in 1999\. The Wests magpies are not a strong brand, never have been, and is generally associated with losing.

Its not going to happen, nor should it ever happen in a million years. Don't derail a thread with this pointless propaganda.

BB,you have made valid points,however even though the Magpie isnt a strong brand,they werent always associated with losing..they had formidable teams and players in their years and I fondly remember the likes of John Dorahy and Tom Radaonikas….

I don't want to get in a Wests Vs Balmain tug of war.
But there's just one thing about the Tigers emblem and the way it's spoken about by some.
I've never got the almost religious reverence about the emblem. I loved the old West jersey and magpie emblem, but when they joined, it only took about one season till I got used to the tiger emblem and WTs jersey,(which is changed on a ridiculous number of times anyway)
As for the emblem itself being like a pot of gold, I think that's no where the truth.
We have been almost begging for money for most of our existence (WTs that is)
Where has the sponsors been, that's supposed to be hypnotised by the magical animal on our jerseys?
The only enticement that works on those who have the money is success on or off the field.
It wouldn't matter what our emblem was if we were a sucessfull club
I like our emblem , but as for being a more valuable emblem than any other clubs,
I just haven't seen any evidence of those comments
Even an Eel can be a good emblem when they're winning.

Before the spears are readied to be thrown, I don't want to see any changes.
Just pointing out that it's an emblem, not a national treasure.

 

[Geo]

Couldn't wests tigers change to wests magpies just like balmain tigers changed to sydney tigers?

No…When they did that as with the Sydney Bulldogs the Competition was the ARL and was by invitation prior to SL...clubs could call themselves what the want...which allowed them to jump ship so easily..

With the introduction of the NRL a licence system was put in place with franchises agreeing to certain lengths of time in the competition...These are bounded by NRL Deeds to mainly avoid breakaway competitions but also ensure branding etc...At the Time of the re-structure of our board Wests Tigers extended it's agreement until 2022..

 

[TrueTiger]

Geez, why would someone mention bringing back the Magpies again. Enough of that crap.

The Wests Tigers Board (and that of Ashfield) have categorically stated the brand is Wests Tigers and will remain that way permanently.

The NRL have stated the license is with the Wests Tigers and no name change will be permitted.

And lastly anyone with half a brain knows the Tiger as an emblem is one of the most powerful in sport. Why Balmain was so sought after for a merger in 1999\. The Wests magpies are not a strong brand, never have been, and is generally associated with losing.

Its not going to happen, nor should it ever happen in a million years. Don't derail a thread with this pointless propaganda.

BB,you have made valid points,however even though the Magpie isnt a strong brand,they werent always associated with losing..they had formidable teams and players in their years and I fondly remember the likes of John Dorahy and Tom Radaonikas….

I don't want to get in a Wests Vs Balmain tug of war.
But there's just one thing about the Tigers emblem and the way it's spoken about by some.
I've never got the almost religious reverence about the emblem. I loved the old West jersey and magpie emblem, but when they joined, it only took about one season till I got used to the tiger emblem and WTs jersey,(which is changed on a ridiculous number of times anyway)
As for the emblem itself being like a pot of gold, I think that's no where the truth.
We have been almost begging for money for most of our existence (WTs that is)
Where has the sponsors been, that's supposed to be hypnotised by the magical animal on our jerseys?
The only enticement that works on those who have the money is success on or off the field.
It wouldn't matter what our emblem was if we were a sucessfull club
I like our emblem , but as for being a more valuable emblem than any other clubs,
I just haven't seen any evidence of those comments
Even an Eel can be a good emblem when they're winning.

Before the spears are readied to be thrown, I don't want to see any changes.
Just pointing out that it's an emblem, not a national treasure.

GCT,most are pointing out that the "TIGER" itself is a marketable product…when we won the 2005 grand final,most kids wanted to wear the Tigers jumper and be like Benji..I havent seen to many parents buying up the Cowboys jersey in comparison...that was the main point of the discussion re.Tigers Emblem....

 

[gallagher]

Couldn't wests tigers change to wests magpies just like balmain tigers changed to sydney tigers?

No…When they did that as with the Sydney Bulldogs the Competition was the ARL and was by invitation prior to SL...clubs could call themselves what the want...which allowed them to jump ship so easily..

With the introduction of the NRL a licence system was put in place with franchises agreeing to certain lengths of time in the competition...These are bounded by NRL Deeds to mainly avoid breakaway competitions but also ensure branding etc...At the Time of the re-structure of our board Wests Tigers extended it's agreement until 2022..

Ah. I see the difference. Cheers

 

[Geo]

Geez, why would someone mention bringing back the Magpies again. Enough of that crap.

The Wests Tigers Board (and that of Ashfield) have categorically stated the brand is Wests Tigers and will remain that way permanently.

The NRL have stated the license is with the Wests Tigers and no name change will be permitted.

And lastly anyone with half a brain knows the Tiger as an emblem is one of the most powerful in sport. Why Balmain was so sought after for a merger in 1999\. The Wests magpies are not a strong brand, never have been, and is generally associated with losing.

Its not going to happen, nor should it ever happen in a million years. Don't derail a thread with this pointless propaganda.

BB,you have made valid points,however even though the Magpie isnt a strong brand,they werent always associated with losing..they had formidable teams and players in their years and I fondly remember the likes of John Dorahy and Tom Radaonikas….

I don't want to get in a Wests Vs Balmain tug of war.
But there's just one thing about the Tigers emblem and the way it's spoken about by some.
I've never got the almost religious reverence about the emblem. I loved the old West jersey and magpie emblem, but when they joined, it only took about one season till I got used to the tiger emblem and WTs jersey,(which is changed on a ridiculous number of times anyway)
As for the emblem itself being like a pot of gold, I think that's no where the truth.
We have been almost begging for money for most of our existence (WTs that is)
Where has the sponsors been, that's supposed to be hypnotised by the magical animal on our jerseys?
The only enticement that works on those who have the money is success on or off the field.
It wouldn't matter what our emblem was if we were a sucessfull club
I like our emblem , but as for being a more valuable emblem than any other clubs,
I just haven't seen any evidence of those comments
Even an Eel can be a good emblem when they're winning.

Before the spears are readied to be thrown, I don't want to see any changes.
Just pointing out that it's an emblem, not a national treasure.

GCT,most are pointing out that the "TIGER" itself is a marketable product…when we won the 2005 grand final,most kids wanted to wear the Tigers jumper and be like Benji..I havent seen to many parents buying up the Cowboys jersey in comparison...that was the main point of the discussion re.Tigers Emblem....

Funny I thought we won the competition in a Wests Tigers jersey and most kids wanted to wear a Wests Tigers jersey and side step like Benji….

Wests Tigers have always attempted to market themselves as Wests Tigers...In recent years that has become a major focus of management..our own IDENTITY.

 

[Greg1]

Those that say the Wests Tigers name and colours cannot be changed, "100% guarantee" someone posted, clearly know nothing about Corporations Law and the corporate structure of the Wests Tigers.

The Wests Tigers name and colours are not 'guaranteed' by the NRL but by a Partnership Agreement (between Wests and Balmain), a Constitution and a Heritage Deed. If the ownership of the Wests Tigers changed, say so that Wests have 100% ownership, the Partnership Agreement is void (because there are no longer partners) and the 4 Wests directors could outvote the 3 'independent' directors to change the Constitution and the Heritage Deed.

If it is true, as previously stated, that NRL own the Wests Tigers name, logo and colours, the new owners could simply hand the rights to use the name, logo and colours back to the NRL and use any name, colours and logo they wanted. The NRL could then re-issue that logo to another entity, for example the Perth Tigers.

The licence to enter a team in the NRL is issued to a corporate entity and depending on the terms of that licence may or may not allow the entity to vary the name, colours and logo mid way through the licence. However, on the granting of a new licence all those things would be up for negotiation.

Also, I have read a lot of comments about how marketable and valuable the Tiger emblem is. Can someone please provide a reference to support these statements? As an aside I point out that the magpie is a far more marketable and valuable emblem in the AFL (the most supported game in Australia) than the tiger!

 

[batboy]

Those that say the Wests Tigers name and colours cannot be changed, "100% guarantee" someone posted, clearly know nothing about Corporations Law and the corporate structure of the Wests Tigers.

The Wests Tigers name and colours are not 'guaranteed' by the NRL but by a Partnership Agreement (between Wests and Balmain), a Constitution and a Heritage Deed. If the ownership of the Wests Tigers changed, say so that Wests have 100% ownership, the Partnership Agreement is void (because there are no longer partners) and the 4 Wests directors could outvote the 3 'independent' directors to change the Constitution and the Heritage Deed.

If it is true, as previously stated, that NRL own the Wests Tigers name, logo and colours, the new owners could simply hand the rights to use the name, logo and colours back to the NRL and use any name, colours and logo they wanted. The NRL could then re-issue that logo to another entity, for example the Perth Tigers.

The licence to enter a team in the NRL is issued to a corporate entity and depending on the terms of that licence may or may not allow the entity to vary the name, colours and logo mid way through the licence. However, on the granting of a new licence all those things would be up for negotiation.

Also, I have read a lot of comments about how marketable and valuable the Tiger emblem is. Can someone please provide a reference to support these statements? As an aside I point out that the magpie is a far more marketable and valuable emblem in the AFL (the most supported game in Australia) than the tiger!

Ah crap…. He's back!!
All that garbage aside... The afl team with a magpie emblem is called and mostly referred to as Collingwood - not "Wests"
I'm sure the NRL would throw away the endless merch they make every year with a tiger on it for a team no one followed 15 years ago, no one remembers and lose all the Wests Tigers supporters more than 80% of the fan base for the dozen guys that follow the Wests magpies around

 

[Yossarian]

Because it's my opinion. You can shout all you want but I disagree with your assessment. The teams I referred to operate NRL teams with little or no licensed club contributions.

The juniors thing is about affiliation not funding. It's still up to Balmain Football Club as to what it does with its juniors.

**And neither Balmain nor Wests have ever funded half of the NRL team. That's one of the greay untruths. The NRL grant massively dwarfs club contributions**.

That's a bit of a furphy - all clubs rely heavily on NRL grants. The point is Balmain don't meet the financial arrangement they entered in to - Wests Group do.

Um no you said the same thing. All clubs rely heavily on NRL grants. My comment was in answer to the suggestion that either Balmain or Wests contribution to the WT is a make or break thing. The question is whether the potential losses from the Balmain contribution are equal to or greater than the loss of juniors, fans and goodwill from shutting out Balmain and whether all this is worth Wests Ashfield taking majority ownership, I'd argue the answers are no for both.

I NEVER said Leagues Club money was make or break… But if you think we will survive (Not to mention be competitive) on 6000 members and the NRL grant - You're as deluded as the Balmain folk. Canterbury (just down the road) throw 4 mil (Last I heard) at the NRL club...
I'm sure we'll have no problem competing with them - And we won't have to worry about the Juniors, They'll all be playing up the road for more money....
\
\
And your question isn't a question at all - Nobody is "shutting Out" Balmain, Nor saying that Wests Ashfield will or should become a soul owner (Although it's most likely)

BALMAIN are busted!! Period
Bad decision after bad decision... Over a long time. (Wonder if they regret not buying LeMontage for a steal way back when?)

They real questions are:
- Can Balmain afford a top Flight competitive NRL club,
- If No - When or will this position ever change?
- Are Balmain governing and funding the Junior Leagues in the Area
- If yes, For how long (In their current predicament)
And Lastly....
- Could Wests Tigers or Wests Ashfield manage the area should Balmain Fold?

Argue all you like - When you can't pay for fuel, It's time to sell the car!!

La Montage when bankrupt when it was the APIA club. Anyway you seem to have a problem with people who disagree with you. No amount of inaccurate analogies is going to cut it. You've totally ignored what I was saying so you could go off on another one of your little rants. Let me know if you want to calm down and discuss this rationally.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Geez, why would someone mention bringing back the Magpies again. Enough of that crap.

The Wests Tigers Board (and that of Ashfield) have categorically stated the brand is Wests Tigers and will remain that way permanently.

The NRL have stated the license is with the Wests Tigers and no name change will be permitted.

And lastly anyone with half a brain knows the Tiger as an emblem is one of the most powerful in sport. Why Balmain was so sought after for a merger in 1999\. The Wests magpies are not a strong brand, never have been, and is generally associated with losing.

Its not going to happen, nor should it ever happen in a million years. Don't derail a thread with this pointless propaganda.

BB,you have made valid points,however even though the Magpie isnt a strong brand,they werent always associated with losing..they had formidable teams and players in their years and I fondly remember the likes of John Dorahy and Tom Radaonikas….

I don't want to get in a Wests Vs Balmain tug of war.
But there's just one thing about the Tigers emblem and the way it's spoken about by some.
I've never got the almost religious reverence about the emblem. I loved the old West jersey and magpie emblem, but when they joined, it only took about one season till I got used to the tiger emblem and WTs jersey,(which is changed on a ridiculous number of times anyway)
As for the emblem itself being like a pot of gold, I think that's no where the truth.
We have been almost begging for money for most of our existence (WTs that is)
Where has the sponsors been, that's supposed to be hypnotised by the magical animal on our jerseys?
The only enticement that works on those who have the money is success on or off the field.
It wouldn't matter what our emblem was if we were a sucessfull club
I like our emblem , but as for being a more valuable emblem than any other clubs,
I just haven't seen any evidence of those comments
Even an Eel can be a good emblem when they're winning.

Before the spears are readied to be thrown, I don't want to see any changes.
Just pointing out that it's an emblem, not a national treasure.

GCT,most are pointing out that the "TIGER" itself is a marketable product…when we won the 2005 grand final,most kids wanted to wear the Tigers jumper and be like Benji..I havent seen to many parents buying up the Cowboys jersey in comparison...that was the main point of the discussion re.Tigers Emblem....

No offence TT, but have you driven through Rockhampton or Townsville in the couple of months after the GF, it was almost as he only jumper I saw. On kids especially.
Same thing with us in 2005.
My grandson and some of his mates became and stayed WT supporters because of mostly one person, Benjii Marshall!!
The kids at his school spent hours trying to perfect his sidestep for years.
This was the case in almost every school up here, every you went at junior league games it was the same.
I respect your opinion, but I don't think that the Tiger on our jumpers was what they wanted , it was the 6 on the back that sold it.
If the jerseys in that GF and other games around that time had a bear or some other emblem on it, those same kids would've still wanted it , as long as it had Marshalls Name and a big 6 on it.
I just haven't seen anything that would point to our emblem having any more value than any other emblem in the NRL.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Those that say the Wests Tigers name and colours cannot be changed, "100% guarantee" someone posted, clearly know nothing about Corporations Law and the corporate structure of the Wests Tigers.

The Wests Tigers name and colours are not 'guaranteed' by the NRL but by a Partnership Agreement (between Wests and Balmain), a Constitution and a Heritage Deed. If the ownership of the Wests Tigers changed, say so that Wests have 100% ownership, the Partnership Agreement is void (because there are no longer partners) and the 4 Wests directors could outvote the 3 'independent' directors to change the Constitution and the Heritage Deed.

If it is true, as previously stated, that NRL own the Wests Tigers name, logo and colours, the new owners could simply hand the rights to use the name, logo and colours back to the NRL and use any name, colours and logo they wanted. The NRL could then re-issue that logo to another entity, for example the Perth Tigers.

The licence to enter a team in the NRL is issued to a corporate entity and depending on the terms of that licence may or may not allow the entity to vary the name, colours and logo mid way through the licence. **However, on the granting of a new licence all those things would be up for negotiation**.

Also, I have read a lot of comments about how marketable and valuable the Tiger emblem is. Can someone please provide a reference to support these statements? As an aside I point out that the magpie is a far more marketable and valuable emblem in the AFL (the most supported game in Australia) than the tiger!

Hand back the rights and license with no guarantees of being issued with a new license???

1/2 the Magpie Fans Base seem stupid enough to do something like that, but I'd suggest the people who sit on WA Board wouldnt be so naive and are fully aware of the NRL's position on such matters.

Either way, there are quit a few actions which need to take place before anything like this becomes probable. Firstly we need to wait and see if the NRL will accept Balmain's proposal, then theres the question of whether WA are actually interested in extending there exposure into the WT any further.

Bring on the footy!

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

BB,you have made valid points,however even though the Magpie isnt a strong brand,they werent always associated with losing..they had formidable teams and players in their years and I fondly remember the likes of John Dorahy and Tom Radaonikas….

I don't want to get in a Wests Vs Balmain tug of war.
But there's just one thing about the Tigers emblem and the way it's spoken about by some.
I've never got the almost religious reverence about the emblem. I loved the old West jersey and magpie emblem, but when they joined, it only took about one season till I got used to the tiger emblem and WTs jersey,(which is changed on a ridiculous number of times anyway)
As for the emblem itself being like a pot of gold, I think that's no where the truth.
We have been almost begging for money for most of our existence (WTs that is)
Where has the sponsors been, that's supposed to be hypnotised by the magical animal on our jerseys?
The only enticement that works on those who have the money is success on or off the field.
It wouldn't matter what our emblem was if we were a sucessfull club
I like our emblem , but as for being a more valuable emblem than any other clubs,
I just haven't seen any evidence of those comments
Even an Eel can be a good emblem when they're winning.

Before the spears are readied to be thrown, I don't want to see any changes.
Just pointing out that it's an emblem, not a national treasure.

GCT,most are pointing out that the "TIGER" itself is a marketable product…when we won the 2005 grand final,most kids wanted to wear the Tigers jumper and be like Benji..I havent seen to many parents buying up the Cowboys jersey in comparison...that was the main point of the discussion re.Tigers Emblem....

Funny I thought we won the competition in a Wests Tigers jersey and most kids wanted to wear a Wests Tigers jersey and side step like Benji….

Wests Tigers have always attempted to market themselves as Wests Tigers...In recent years that has become a major focus of management..our own IDENTITY.

Yep, you are right about the jersey, all I'm saying was that it was Marshall that grabbed the kids Imagination not an emblem
If it was so marketable we would be awash with prospective sponsors and people wanting to be connected with the club and emblem.( take Souths for example, and their emblem is a "rabbit") .

Yes we have our own identity, but if we ever had to change our emblem or perish as a club, within a season or two the same people who were cheering for our present emblem, would be cheering just as hard for whatever we were called( as long as it wasn't the Broncos)
I like the tiger, but as I said it s success that brings the money, not emblems.

 

[gallagher]

The NRL need only to read this forum to decide if they are going to let the debacle go on for another year. If they are interested in the fans that is.

 

[TrueTiger]

GCT,we were even selling the Tigers jumpers when Hoppa done the deed….the Tiger sells,players like Benji are a bonus,just ask the Cowboys fans with golden haired JT,and he certainly can play the game.....

 

[rex2ce]

I don't want Balmain to control rex2ce - nor Western Suburbs - They are the Wests Tigers now.

TT - I really am not dwelling in the past - just want them as part of WT rather than oblivion.
Was not happy when they joined the Magpies (vice versa I am sure) but that was the way both could go on and survive - I accepted that. However to then be deleted - emptyness.

I know all the positives but I still don't want one of our parents put down.

Russell, you have misunderstood the meaning of my post, it was clear to me ,but what I was saying had nothing to do with who was actually controlling WT, it was a swipe a Balmains recent management and decision making efforts that have landed them in their current mess and what would have happened to WT had they applied same efforts to running the JV

 

[Eddie]

If it allows the old few dinosaur Magpie fans to keep salivating at getting their team back then lets just say its a chance of happening. Even if it really is 100/1.

Keep their dinosaur dream alive.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

GCT,we were even selling the Tigers jumpers when Hoppa done the deed….the Tiger sells,players like Benji are a bonus,just ask the Cowboys fans with golden haired JT,and he certainly can play the game.....

Still think that a successful team and players like Benjii are what sells jumpersTT.
Would love to see the figures on all clubs jumper sales, I think that it would be the sucessfull teams that sell the most and the emblems make very little difference
Not saying that it's unpopular, just that it doesn't have a big influence on money coming into the club
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the emblem bit.
Not sure what you meant about Thurston though

 

[diedpretty]

Couldn't wests tigers change to wests magpies just like balmain tigers changed to sydney tigers?

No…When they did that as with the Sydney Bulldogs the Competition was the ARL and was by invitation prior to SL...clubs could call themselves what the want...which allowed them to jump ship so easily..

With the introduction of the NRL a licence system was put in place with franchises agreeing to certain lengths of time in the competition...These are bounded by NRL Deeds to mainly avoid breakaway competitions but also ensure branding etc...At the Time of the re-structure of our board Wests Tigers extended it's agreement until 2022..

So does every licence run out in 2022 - I only ask this because I thought most clubs were only signed until 2018.

 

[Geo]

Couldn't wests tigers change to wests magpies just like balmain tigers changed to sydney tigers?

No…When they did that as with the Sydney Bulldogs the Competition was the ARL and was by invitation prior to SL...clubs could call themselves what the want...which allowed them to jump ship so easily..

With the introduction of the NRL a licence system was put in place with franchises agreeing to certain lengths of time in the competition...These are bounded by NRL Deeds to mainly avoid breakaway competitions but also ensure branding etc...At the Time of the re-structure of our board Wests Tigers extended it's agreement until 2022..

So does every licence run out in 2022 - I only ask this because I thought most clubs were only signed until 2018.

Not every Club..most do in 2018 …I think Dragons Knights Titans and Us are 2022..there was a cuffle around the Origin time in Melbourne Gould and Politis and Co weren't happy with the ARLC and the NRL wanted to break up licence dates...read it in an article around then...see if I can dig it up..

 

[diedpretty]

If it allows the old few dinosaur Magpie fans to keep salivating at getting their team back then lets just say its a chance of happening. Even if it really is 100/1.

Keep their dinosaur dream alive.

You know what Eddie - there will still be a tiger on the jumper - but the whole show will be run by Wests - the only extinct dinosaur in this is Balmain.