Bitcoin and Crypto

[cochise]

@Hangonaminute if you want people to start listening to you, may I suggest that you stop putting people down and belittling their opinion when it differs from yours. Also, just a suggestion but perhaps remember that however much you think you know, remember it is just your opinion, not fact.

Maybe I'm wrong, all I have is an opinion after all, maybe you've privy to some truths in this world that no one is, but to me it just looks like you're trying to encourage people to buy more bitcoin because you feel it favours you, not them.

I'm really not here to argue about crypto but I keep getting dragged into it it seems, I'm really try not to trust me, I really couldn't care less if people aren't interested.
I want to talk with people who are.

But I'll continue to correct the misinformation and educate people.

You started the thread, I can't see how that is being dragged into it.

 

[Hangonaminute]

Back to Pies..

To get a better understanding in relation to bit coin.. it seems to fluctuate in value . So a pie could cost me 5 bitcoin today 7 bitcoin tomorrow and 3 bitcoin on Friday is that right...?

Where as apart from a price rise for a pie at the shop itself a pie that cost 5 today will cost me 5 tomorrow and 5 on Friday

Well 1 bitcoin is worth about $13,700 at the moment, so 7 bitcoins would probably get you the shop. But yes, if you'd gone to the pie shop on 11 March your 1 Bitcoin would have been worth about $12,500 and if you'd gone on 12 March it would have been worth around $7,700. As long as that kind of volatility remains in it then its popularity is going to be limited. Gamblers will love it. Anarchists and anti-establishment types will love it for what it represents. Mainstream uptake though? Seems a way off...

Recently Bitcoin has been less volatile than the S&P 500 and oil.

The number of Bitcoin wallets has been increasing exponentially

Well the S&P500 and oil are not currencies (and there is also a pretty clear explanation for their recent volatility). Most people are conservative and don't want to see their wealth go from $50,000 one day to $100,000 the next and $20,000 the day after that, they want to be able to plan based on having a predictable amount of money available to them. Unless and until these cryptocurrencies can offer that stability, they will not become mainstream currencies.
You can claim that we're out of date thinkers if you like, but human nature in mass populations generally takes a while to change unless something forces the change.

So you want to talk about currencies, ok the US dollar which is the world's reserve currency has lost over 96% of it's value.

Still want to talk about currencies holding value?

96% of its value from when? It's value against what? And how has it impacted on domestic purchasing power in the US?

From when it was created.
You do realise that every fiat currency goes to zero right?
And the average lifespan is about 40yrs.

You do realise that the US are in 25 trillion dollars of debt and they can't even service the interest on the debt let alone pay any of it off?

You do realise that the federal reserve is "quantitive easing" and just creating money from thin air to buy bonds just to keep the whole system from collapsing?

The ship is sinking, I suggest you start looking for a lifevest.

The federal reserve (private banking cartel) is the biggest scam in history, it creates money out of thin air for the sole purpose of collecting interest from it, then it pumps the supply so that every dollar you slave for is worth less and less.

Wake up

My money isn't in US dollars, so why would I care about their debt?

Unless we face severe economic hardship or a collapse of government in this country, our currency is going to be fine. That it the reality as far as I'm concerned. It is a logical fallacy to say that every fiat currency goes to zero because there are numerous fiat currencies still in existence. It will ultimately true, but it will also ultimately be true that Bitcoin will have no value.
The average lifespan of 40 years (if that figure is accurate) would include all manner of private fiat currencies and the currencies of countries that underwent frequent conquest over several centuries. It is not an accurate indicator of the likely fate of currencies in this day and age, or at least not those that have stable government and relative economic prosperity.

Keep learning

 

[JD Tiger]

@Hangonaminute if you want people to start listening to you, may I suggest that you stop putting people down and belittling their opinion when it differs from yours. Also, just a suggestion but perhaps remember that however much you think you know, remember it is just your opinion, not fact.

Maybe I'm wrong, all I have is an opinion after all, maybe you've privy to some truths in this world that no one is, but to me it just looks like you're trying to encourage people to buy more bitcoin because you feel it favours you, not them.

I'm really not here to argue about crypto but I keep getting dragged into it it seems, I'm really try not to trust me, I really couldn't care less if people aren't interested.
I want to talk with people who are.

But I'll continue to correct the misinformation and educate people.

It's comments like "wake up" and other comments like that that comes across as confrontational. Try to explain your point of view, please do, but I don't see how a person can give someone an unbiased account of something when they don't recognise and present their own bias?

 

[Cairnstigers]

There is no such thing as free money

Try telling that to the Government as it cranks up the printing presses. One thing for sure is that if we continue to print and type currency into existence at the current rate, hyper inflation is just around the corner.
That doesn't leave too many asset classes as safe havens - precious metals obviously, and probably some of the cryptos.
Anyway - each to their own.

My guess is that when all of this is over, GST will go up from 10% to 12 to 13% at least
There for we all pay
Hence no free money

 

[Nelson]

Back to Pies..

To get a better understanding in relation to bit coin.. it seems to fluctuate in value . So a pie could cost me 5 bitcoin today 7 bitcoin tomorrow and 3 bitcoin on Friday is that right...?

Where as apart from a price rise for a pie at the shop itself a pie that cost 5 today will cost me 5 tomorrow and 5 on Friday

Well 1 bitcoin is worth about $13,700 at the moment, so 7 bitcoins would probably get you the shop. But yes, if you'd gone to the pie shop on 11 March your 1 Bitcoin would have been worth about $12,500 and if you'd gone on 12 March it would have been worth around $7,700. As long as that kind of volatility remains in it then its popularity is going to be limited. Gamblers will love it. Anarchists and anti-establishment types will love it for what it represents. Mainstream uptake though? Seems a way off...

Recently Bitcoin has been less volatile than the S&P 500 and oil.

The number of Bitcoin wallets has been increasing exponentially

Well the S&P500 and oil are not currencies (and there is also a pretty clear explanation for their recent volatility). Most people are conservative and don't want to see their wealth go from $50,000 one day to $100,000 the next and $20,000 the day after that, they want to be able to plan based on having a predictable amount of money available to them. Unless and until these cryptocurrencies can offer that stability, they will not become mainstream currencies.
You can claim that we're out of date thinkers if you like, but human nature in mass populations generally takes a while to change unless something forces the change.

So you want to talk about currencies, ok the US dollar which is the world's reserve currency has lost over 96% of it's value.

Still want to talk about currencies holding value?

96% of its value from when? It's value against what? And how has it impacted on domestic purchasing power in the US?

From when it was created.
You do realise that every fiat currency goes to zero right?
And the average lifespan is about 40yrs.

You do realise that the US are in 25 trillion dollars of debt and they can't even service the interest on the debt let alone pay any of it off?

You do realise that the federal reserve is "quantitive easing" and just creating money from thin air to buy bonds just to keep the whole system from collapsing?

The ship is sinking, I suggest you start looking for a lifevest.

The federal reserve (private banking cartel) is the biggest scam in history, it creates money out of thin air for the sole purpose of collecting interest from it, then it pumps the supply so that every dollar you slave for is worth less and less.

Wake up

My money isn't in US dollars, so why would I care about their debt?

Unless we face severe economic hardship or a collapse of government in this country, our currency is going to be fine. That it the reality as far as I'm concerned. It is a logical fallacy to say that every fiat currency goes to zero because there are numerous fiat currencies still in existence. It will ultimately true, but it will also ultimately be true that Bitcoin will have no value.
The average lifespan of 40 years (if that figure is accurate) would include all manner of private fiat currencies and the currencies of countries that underwent frequent conquest over several centuries. It is not an accurate indicator of the likely fate of currencies in this day and age, or at least not those that have stable government and relative economic prosperity.

Because it's world reserve currency

So what? If it continues to decline then another currency will replace it as the world reserve currency. That shift has already started with the rise of the Euro.

 

[Nelson]

Back to Pies..

To get a better understanding in relation to bit coin.. it seems to fluctuate in value . So a pie could cost me 5 bitcoin today 7 bitcoin tomorrow and 3 bitcoin on Friday is that right...?

Where as apart from a price rise for a pie at the shop itself a pie that cost 5 today will cost me 5 tomorrow and 5 on Friday

Well 1 bitcoin is worth about $13,700 at the moment, so 7 bitcoins would probably get you the shop. But yes, if you'd gone to the pie shop on 11 March your 1 Bitcoin would have been worth about $12,500 and if you'd gone on 12 March it would have been worth around $7,700. As long as that kind of volatility remains in it then its popularity is going to be limited. Gamblers will love it. Anarchists and anti-establishment types will love it for what it represents. Mainstream uptake though? Seems a way off...

Recently Bitcoin has been less volatile than the S&P 500 and oil.

The number of Bitcoin wallets has been increasing exponentially

Well the S&P500 and oil are not currencies (and there is also a pretty clear explanation for their recent volatility). Most people are conservative and don't want to see their wealth go from $50,000 one day to $100,000 the next and $20,000 the day after that, they want to be able to plan based on having a predictable amount of money available to them. Unless and until these cryptocurrencies can offer that stability, they will not become mainstream currencies.
You can claim that we're out of date thinkers if you like, but human nature in mass populations generally takes a while to change unless something forces the change.

So you want to talk about currencies, ok the US dollar which is the world's reserve currency has lost over 96% of it's value.

Still want to talk about currencies holding value?

96% of its value from when? It's value against what? And how has it impacted on domestic purchasing power in the US?

From when it was created.
You do realise that every fiat currency goes to zero right?
And the average lifespan is about 40yrs.

You do realise that the US are in 25 trillion dollars of debt and they can't even service the interest on the debt let alone pay any of it off?

You do realise that the federal reserve is "quantitive easing" and just creating money from thin air to buy bonds just to keep the whole system from collapsing?

The ship is sinking, I suggest you start looking for a lifevest.

The federal reserve (private banking cartel) is the biggest scam in history, it creates money out of thin air for the sole purpose of collecting interest from it, then it pumps the supply so that every dollar you slave for is worth less and less.

Wake up

My money isn't in US dollars, so why would I care about their debt?

Unless we face severe economic hardship or a collapse of government in this country, our currency is going to be fine. That it the reality as far as I'm concerned. It is a logical fallacy to say that every fiat currency goes to zero because there are numerous fiat currencies still in existence. It will ultimately true, but it will also ultimately be true that Bitcoin will have no value.
The average lifespan of 40 years (if that figure is accurate) would include all manner of private fiat currencies and the currencies of countries that underwent frequent conquest over several centuries. It is not an accurate indicator of the likely fate of currencies in this day and age, or at least not those that have stable government and relative economic prosperity.

Keep learning

I always do. You should try it - and broaden your horizons from crytpo pushing websites.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Back to Pies..

To get a better understanding in relation to bit coin.. it seems to fluctuate in value . So a pie could cost me 5 bitcoin today 7 bitcoin tomorrow and 3 bitcoin on Friday is that right...?

Where as apart from a price rise for a pie at the shop itself a pie that cost 5 today will cost me 5 tomorrow and 5 on Friday

Well 1 bitcoin is worth about $13,700 at the moment, so 7 bitcoins would probably get you the shop. But yes, if you'd gone to the pie shop on 11 March your 1 Bitcoin would have been worth about $12,500 and if you'd gone on 12 March it would have been worth around $7,700. As long as that kind of volatility remains in it then its popularity is going to be limited. Gamblers will love it. Anarchists and anti-establishment types will love it for what it represents. Mainstream uptake though? Seems a way off...

Anarchists, Libertarians and criminals. Silk Road was one of the first places you could trade exclusively in Bitcoin, mainly to buy drugs or organise hits.

So why do you use cash?

Because criminals never use cash, right?

If anything Bitcoin is the worst thing to use for illegal activity, every transaction is recorded in the blockchain.

I don't actually use cash. 99% of my transactions are electronic because I want an electronic account of my expenses.

Blockchain doesn't tell everyone where you live.

By the way, it doesn't erode my point. Why did Silk Road only exclusively deal in Bitcoin? It gave users relative anonymity compared to conventional currency and hide behind IP addresses (I'd assume TOR and VPNs and the like would be utilised to mask the activity,) rather than card numbers linked to your personal details.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Sounds great
Disadvantages | Bitcoin

There is also a possibility that governments might force merchants to not use Bitcoins to ensure that users' transactions can be tracked. If a hard drive crashes, or a virus corrupts data , and the wallet file is corrupted, Bitcoins have essentially been “lost”. There is nothing that can done to recover it.

Disadvantages of Using Bitcoin

Exposure to Bitcoin-Specific Scams and Fraud. ...Black Market Activity May Damage Reputation and Usefulness. ...Susceptible to High Price Volatility. ...No Chargebacks or Refunds. ...Potential to Be Replaced by Superior Cryptocurrency. ...Environmental Ills of Bitcoin Mining

If you can afford to loose money then go for it
If you can't then best stay away from it as in my opinion it is not worth the risk
If in doubt ask your financial advisor

 

[cochise]

Sounds great
Disadvantages | Bitcoin

There is also a possibility that governments might force merchants to not use Bitcoins to ensure that users' transactions can be tracked. If a hard drive crashes, or a virus corrupts data , and the wallet file is corrupted, Bitcoins have essentially been “lost”. There is nothing that can done to recover it.

Disadvantages of Using Bitcoin

Exposure to Bitcoin-Specific Scams and Fraud. ...Black Market Activity May Damage Reputation and Usefulness. ...Susceptible to High Price Volatility. ...No Chargebacks or Refunds. ...Potential to Be Replaced by Superior Cryptocurrency. ...Environmental Ills of Bitcoin Mining

If you can afford to loose money then go for it
If you can't then best stay away from it as in my opinion it is not worth the risk
If in doubt as your financial advisor

Should I ask @Hangonaminute to become my financial advisor?

 

[Cairnstigers]

Sounds great
Disadvantages | Bitcoin

There is also a possibility that governments might force merchants to not use Bitcoins to ensure that users' transactions can be tracked. If a hard drive crashes, or a virus corrupts data , and the wallet file is corrupted, Bitcoins have essentially been “lost”. There is nothing that can done to recover it.

Disadvantages of Using Bitcoin

Exposure to Bitcoin-Specific Scams and Fraud. ...Black Market Activity May Damage Reputation and Usefulness. ...Susceptible to High Price Volatility. ...No Chargebacks or Refunds. ...Potential to Be Replaced by Superior Cryptocurrency. ...Environmental Ills of Bitcoin Mining

If you can afford to loose money then go for it
If you can't then best stay away from it as in my opinion it is not worth the risk
If in doubt as your financial advisor

Should I ask @Hangonaminute to become my financial advisor?

Did you hit your head

 

[Hangonaminute]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

 

[cochise]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

 

[jirskyr]

Back to Pies..

To get a better understanding in relation to bit coin.. it seems to fluctuate in value . So a pie could cost me 5 bitcoin today 7 bitcoin tomorrow and 3 bitcoin on Friday is that right...?

Where as apart from a price rise for a pie at the shop itself a pie that cost 5 today will cost me 5 tomorrow and 5 on Friday

Well 1 bitcoin is worth about $13,700 at the moment, so 7 bitcoins would probably get you the shop. But yes, if you'd gone to the pie shop on 11 March your 1 Bitcoin would have been worth about $12,500 and if you'd gone on 12 March it would have been worth around $7,700. As long as that kind of volatility remains in it then its popularity is going to be limited. Gamblers will love it. Anarchists and anti-establishment types will love it for what it represents. Mainstream uptake though? Seems a way off...

Anarchists, Libertarians and criminals. Silk Road was one of the first places you could trade exclusively in Bitcoin, mainly to buy drugs or organise hits.

So why do you use cash?

Because criminals never use cash, right?

If anything Bitcoin is the worst thing to use for illegal activity, every transaction is recorded in the blockchain.

That's not the point, it's about being able to steal bitcoins from other people, anonymously, then that bitcoin is lost forever. If someone hacks the bank, the bank can cancel / over-ride the transaction.

For example
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/5/8/18537073/binance-hack-bitcoin-stolen-blockchain-security-safu

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Anyone who has a negative opinion of Bitcoin and crypto = knows nothing about it.

 

[Hangonaminute]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

Got better things to do.

I'm here to talk with others who are into crypto, not argue with those that aren't

 

[cochise]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

Got better things to do.

I'm here to talk with others who are into crypto, not argue with those that aren't

It doesn't seem there are many of those here though, it was a topic I was interested in but the negatives others have pointed out have outweighed the positives that have been mentioned.

 

[Hangonaminute]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

Got better things to do.

I'm here to talk with others who are into crypto, not argue with those that aren't

It doesn't seem there are many of those here though, it was a topic I was interested in but the negatives others have pointed out have outweighed the positives that have been mentioned.

Cool

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

Got better things to do.

I'm here to talk with others who are into crypto, not argue with those that aren't

You realise that you can be interested in crypto, but not have a positive view of it, right?

 

[Hangonaminute]

Good to see so many people who aren't into crypto know so much about it.

Why don't you refute their claims then?

Got better things to do.

I'm here to talk with others who are into crypto, not argue with those that aren't

You realise that you can be interested in crypto, but not have a positive view of it, right?

Yep

 

[Blacknwhite]

Seems an interesting topic... but what I want to know is

How much is a Pie and Sauce in Bitcoin..?

Go get a visa debit card from crypto.com load it with Bitcoin, take it to a bakery and find out.

Seems a lot of effort when I can just go a and give em 5 bucks..

Is bitcoin tangible..can you hold it in your hand..?

explain tangible in regards to fiat money to me?

Just because you can touch a $50 note, doesnt mean the piece of plastic has a value of $50, the true value of the note is some decimal of a "cent". A 5c coin is more valuable than a $100 note if you are talking about the materials worth... So using "tangible" to argue the validity of a fiat system vs crypto is a fools errand.

Furthermore, if everyone in the country went to their bank and withdrew all their funds within their accounts, it would actually be impossible to pay everyone out! Ironically, most of the fiat money within our economy only exists as a bunch of data.

Public consensus is the difference between fiat and crypto. The only difference.

That said, Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme at this stage. Its a dying proof of concept. It would be akin to investing in Nicolas Cugnot, instead of Henry Ford.