Brooks Why????

[BZN]

WOW and WOW again @bigsiro: I can't believe what I have been reading here recently. Awesome, cool, fabulous, well-written, sensible posts with no trash talk. Keep it going guys!!!!:relaxed:

 

[BZN]

Well done with those stats @Curly_Tiger, good on ya for your opinion and I respect it :relaxed:

 

[BZN]

Very well said @jirskyr and at this stage 13 likes without any trash talk. Obviously a lot of people like what you say and the way you say it 😛oint_up: :relaxed:

 

[BZN]

I really enjoyed reading your post @Needaname, thank you and keep the good no trash talk posts coming :relaxed:

 

[BZN]

Another great post to add to the list @cktiger, thank you :relaxed:

 

[BZN]

G'day Administrators: my post on page 4 of this thread? in reply to @shane2801 was apparently deleted. Please explain. Thank You :relaxed: .

 

[WT2019]

@Matto 100% right J. Thanks .

 

[GNR4LIFE]

What confounds me is the posters who have made it their mission to push Moses barrel. Not because I don't like him or because of the way he carried on before he left, but just because...why? Why do we get reminded over and over that Moses is the better player, to what end? It wasn't anybody on the forum who pulled his contract. At the time, we all wanted him to stay. You could take it up with the club, but the culprit who let him go is no longer here either. And I don't remember him copping it for that decision before he stabbed the club in the back when everyone thought the sun shone out of his backside. I know most of you like to deal with reality and facts, and the reality and facts of the situation are Moses is gone, and Brooks is here. No amount of Nelson Munce ha haing will bring Moses back and just confuses the rest of us, because we didn't make the decision to pull his contract.


Most of it used as a comparison how one player has gone to another level or how one handles the occasion better than the other.

its a legit comparison given they started together here.

And despite what you think this is a forum, a place for discussing these type of comparisons and opinions.

What occasion? Moses is 0/2 in finals. Brooks is the reigning Dally M halfback of the year which apparently is a worthless award. But just wait till that award shoots up in value and prestige if Moses wins it this year.

 

[jirskyr]

@GNR4LIFE Agreed. Totally happy to see a Moses / Brooks comparison, and coming from the same roots, it's as valid a comparison as any.

But I already made an argument that I don't see any evidence of Moses being an indicator of personal success or "handling occasions" better. Parramatta came last in 2018 and, as you note, Brooks won the Dally M halfback award.

Fast-forward 12 months and the Eels are 6th and Moses is having a good season (ugh I've just been sick in my mouth). As you note, Moses has played 2 finals games ever and will add at least 1 more this year, without any evidence otherwise of "handling occasions better".

Moses is about to complete his 7th season in FG - it's a very weak argument that he is progressed as a footballer simply because his side has lost 2 finals matches and he's having a good run of try assists. You go back a year and Luke Brooks is sitting on top of the pile.

Chad Townsend is in his 9th season and his sides have made the finals 6 times, with 2019 pending. Townsend is personally 4 wins 4 losses in finals, including 1 premiership. At the very least, that is some indicator of success and handling finals pressure, so at the very least you could make an argument comparing the careers of Brooks and Townsend.

But Brooks and Moses? Nope. Basically both have minimal career achievement besides playing regular FG.

 

[Zach]

@Zach Well mate find a better halfback available , that is better than Brookes before you do what other coaches have done and see our players shine.

Well that is what actually happen watch the replay, the Manly player pulled his leg and that made Brookes come down, as normally happens if your laying on the ground pulling somebody's leg, ie gravity

I'm available on Saturdays! Madge can give me a shot...i cant be any worse then what we have! :sweat_smile:

 

[cktiger]

@GNR4LIFE Agreed. Totally happy to see a Moses / Brooks comparison, and coming from the same roots, it's as valid a comparison as any.

But I already made an argument that **I don't see any evidence of Moses being an indicator of personal success or "handling occasions" better.** Parramatta came last in 2018 and, as you note, Brooks won the Dally M halfback award.

Fast-forward 12 months and the Eels are 6th and Moses is having a good season (ugh I've just been sick in my mouth). As you note, Moses has played 2 finals games ever and will add at least 1 more this year, without any evidence otherwise of "handling occasions better".

Moses is about to complete his 7th season in FG - it's a very weak argument that he is progressed as a footballer simply because his side has lost 2 finals matches and he's having a good run of try assists. You go back a year and Luke Brooks is sitting on top of the pile.

Chad Townsend is in his 9th season and his sides have made the finals 6 times, with 2019 pending. Townsend is personally 4 wins 4 losses in finals, including 1 premiership. At the very least, that is some indicator of success and handling finals pressure, so at the very least you could make an argument comparing the careers of Brooks and Townsend.

But Brooks and Moses? Nope. Basically both have minimal career achievement besides playing regular FG.

That might very well be your opinion - but you have admitted you're heavily biased.
Every NRL commentator I've heard has said the Parramatta success has been on the back of Moses' form.
He's got them into the semis two years out of three.
Last year the 'supposed' best half in the comp led us to another year of... nothing.
Oddly enough the exact excuses trotted out for Brooks could be used for Moses form last year - when Parra had the worst pack in the comp.
But they weren't.
The same people who blamed Moses for their predicament are unwilling to blame Brooks for ours.
Being a supporter I hope, somehow, Brooks can become the guy we need ... but how long can we wait?

 

[jirskyr]

That might very well be your opinion - but you have admitted you’re heavily biased.
Every NRL commentator I’ve heard has said the Parramatta success has been on the back of Moses’ form.

Well 2 things.

Firstly, Moses is not doing it alone; this isn't some Jarryd Hayne 2009-type run to the finals. There are plenty of average footballers going around who are going to play finals football in 2019 and also good players who are not.

However the point of the discussion I entered is not whether or not Moses is having a superior year to Brooks, the point is whether or not Moses has developed into a player who "handles big occasions" better than Brooks, i.e. an argument that Brooks "fails to step up when it REALLY counts".

And I go back and look at the matches and we actually have a good record in the tight games, and he has been personally involved in clinching wins in tight matches. Moses on the other hand has no particular record of high-stakes success, especially if you look at Parramatta's 2 finals matches in his time or his matches against Top 4 (and Top 8 really) opponents this year, Parra have a poor record. I would be looking for "stepping up" against quality opposition, not the Titans or Tigers.

So ultimately some folks think Brooks doesn't do enough week to week to make Tigers a finals contender. There is a counter-argument that we are not a finals contender despite Luke Brooks' efforts. He's no world beater, that much can be agreed upon, but he has basically never had a quality roster to work with either. Whereas Moses did almost nothing for Tigers in his seasons, then walked in to a Parramatta side that won 11 of the next 14 regular season matches in 2017. This cannot simply be Moses being a better footballer or "growing" suddenly in the 6 months after leaving Tigers. This is evidence of a superior roster.

That's fine if you can excuse Moses in 2018 for having a bad pack, because you are right, that's what some fans are saying about Tigers 2019. It's fine if Moses and Brooks are on roughly equal terms, neither having done anything particularly special except have the odd good season.

But as a comparison of one player becoming successful and the other failing to find success - no, there is little difference between them IMO. And then, yes, Moses is a dog so he goes down further in my esteem.

Do Tigers 2019 become a premiership force if we swap in Moses and take out Brooks? I highly doubt it.

 

[TheDaBoss]

That might very well be your opinion - but you have admitted you’re heavily biased.
Every NRL commentator I’ve heard has said the Parramatta success has been on the back of Moses’ form.

Well 2 things.

Firstly, Moses is not doing it alone; this isn't some Jarryd Hayne 2009-type run to the finals. There are plenty of average footballers going around who are going to play finals football in 2019 and also good players who are not.

However the point of the discussion I entered is not whether or not Moses is having a superior year to Brooks, the point is whether or not Moses has developed into a player who "handles big occasions" better than Brooks, i.e. an argument that Brooks "fails to step up when it REALLY counts".

And I go back and look at the matches and we actually have a good record in the tight games, and he has been personally involved in clinching wins in tight matches. Moses on the other hand has no particular record of high-stakes success, especially if you look at Parramatta's 2 finals matches in his time or his matches against Top 4 (and Top 8 really) opponents this year, Parra have a poor record. I would be looking for "stepping up" against quality opposition, not the Titans or Tigers.

So ultimately some folks think Brooks doesn't do enough week to week to make Tigers a finals contender. There is a counter-argument that we are not a finals contender despite Luke Brooks' efforts. He's no world beater, that much can be agreed upon, but he has basically never had a quality roster to work with either. Whereas Moses did almost nothing for Tigers in his seasons, then walked in to a Parramatta side that won 11 of the next 14 regular season matches in 2017. This cannot simply be Moses being a better footballer or "growing" suddenly in the 6 months after leaving Tigers. This is evidence of a superior roster.

That's fine if you can excuse Moses in 2018 for having a bad pack, because you are right, that's what some fans are saying about Tigers 2019. It's fine if Moses and Brooks are on roughly equal terms, neither having done anything particularly special except have the odd good season.

But as a comparison of one player becoming successful and the other failing to find success - no, there is little difference between them IMO. And then, yes, Moses is a dog so he goes down further in my esteem.

Do Tigers 2019 become a premiership force if we swap in Moses and take out Brooks? I highly doubt it.

Quality post! If we swap moses for brooks..... the team decreases...as well as the fans

 

[cktiger]

@jirskyr
Either way ... Moses is a better all round footballer and looks like he actually wants to win.
Poor old Brooksie looks like a lost sheep sometimes.

 

[Sart0ri]

@jirskyr
Either way ... Moses is a better all round footballer and looks like he actually wants to win.
Poor old Brooksie looks like a lost sheep sometimes.

Parra have had either big wins or big loses all year, Moses plays well when his forwards are dominating and falls apart when any pressure is put on him. He is the same rocks and diamonds player as he was at the Tigers but with some better supporting players around him.

His try assists are also high because he gets the ball on nearly every 5th tackle rather than sharing between 2 or 3 playmakers. His % of successful 5th tackle options is terrible but he looks good in one stat.

 

[eyewondertwo]

on sunrise this morning Benji was talking up his positive thinking about playing again next year.
so,benji at 6 and luke at 7.
so that worked this year
the team will finish a mediocre 8th to 14th spot in 2019.
something has got to give.
thank heavens greater minds than mine are running the club.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr
Either way ... Moses is a better all round footballer and looks like he actually wants to win.
Poor old Brooksie looks like a lost sheep sometimes.

I would argue that's temporary. Brooks was the competition's best halfback in 2018, as assesed by impartial judges, across a whole season of football. Moses got a wooden spoon. If Moses was the better all-round footballer, these two events could not have happened.

If you are arguing that Moses is currently in better match-winning form, then yes, he is. We'll have to wait and see how the competition pans out, because he might be sitting on the sidelines, same as Brooksie, in 3-4 weeks.

Whether players "look like" they want to win, that's an argument I have no interest in engaging. Who cares what they "look like"? For every McEnroe there's a Borg.

 

[BalmainJnr]

Just wondering... since Brooks came into grade has the club ever employed either a full time halves coach or an external consultant to coach him and the other halves? I know we have had people around the joint who were thought to be able to provide him with coaching input through experience as a half ie JT and tried to get Laurie this year. But, we have been hearing for 5 years about his development and I have always been curious about why the seeming lack of investment in this regard when much of the clubs planning has hinged on the success of his development.

 

[TCL]

@bigsiro You forgot the Moses fast forward comparison.

He tanked playing for the tigers and left mid season.
He won the wooden spoon with the eels
Granted he is doing better this season

But let’s all agree that when it comes to Brooks the haters are going to hate, lovers are going to love.

 

[bigsiro]

@TCL
Fast forwarding Moses’ career has nothing to do with my argument. I was talking from a historical perspective.

I was just saying that when we re-signed Brooks at the time it was still a gamble with the hope that he may be the solution to lead us as a half, but it didn’t work out.

Moses’ last two years, as far as I’m concerned, has absolutely nothing to do with this Brooks discussion.