Coach GOAT

[batboy]

Tactical masterclass last night.

Turned the match into an ugly middle third game to take advantage of their superior middles. Worked Harry to a standstill. Munster was ineffective. No other team can go close to nullifying the strengths of the Storm.

Only losing JFH in the pack and will add Paps. They’ll remain a top two force given their forward strength (and halfback).

Noticed that play that tore the Roosters to threads with Paps coming out wide at full tilt - Panthers were solid, Slid together and Papi ran into a wall of them....

So impressive!!

 

[BAGNF05]

Noticed that play that tore the Sharks to threads with Paps coming out wide at full tilt - Panthers were solid, Slid together and Papi ran into a wall of them....

So impressive!!

I thought they were really clunky in H1 in attack as they kept turning it back inside and then switching play. The aim wasn’t to score points it was to burn Melbourne’s middles. Worked a charm.

 

[Furious1]

Surely Ivan comes right into the conversation. I understand why a lot of WT supporters don't like him, I was there myself, but put the hate aside and have a good think about what he has achieved as a coach over the last 5 years. Something Bellamy and Bennett have never been able to do. I would argue Bennett even had a superior Roster at the Broncos for a lot of his tenure.
I get that it's not all Ivan, just like it's not all Bellamy or Bennett, but the buck stops with the coaches, especially when they are losing.

 

[BAGNF05]

Surely Ivan comes right into the conversation. I understand why a lot of WT supporters don't like him, I was there myself, but put the hate aside and have a good think about what he has achieved as a coach over the last 5 years. Something Bellamy and Bennett have never been able to do. I would argue Bennett even had a superior Roster at the Broncos for a lot of his tenure.
I get that it's not all Ivan, just like it's not all Bellamy or Bennett, but the buck stops with the coaches, especially when they are losing.

It’s similar now to how the best sides at the Storm were built, he’s identified the heart and soul players in the team and continually building around them. While ever he has Nathan, Martin and Yeo & Edwards, he’s got a more than competitive side.

 

[batboy]

I thought they were really clunky in H1 in attack as they kept turning it back inside and then switching play. The aim wasn’t to score points it was to burn Melbourne’s middles. Worked a charm.

Sorry - Was the Roosters....
But you got what I meant.
Middles were fried - Panthers backed the miles in them for sure.

Would have been interesting to see the difference NAS would have made.

 

[BAGNF05]

Sorry - Was the Roosters....
But you got what I meant.
Middles were fried - Panthers backed the miles in them for sure.

Would have been interesting to see the difference NAS would have made.

I said that during the game. His absence made their game planning pretty obvious. There’s a reason Belly ache chased Stef.

 

[twentyforty]

Do great coaches make a team great, or do great teams make the coach great?

I was having a conversation with a mate about Cleary when he was the WT coach back in 2018. I thought Cleary was high quality based on what he got out of our very ordinary squad that year.

My mate argued that Cleary was not a quality coach. His criterion was: how many games did it take a coach to win his first grand final. He claimed that no modern coach that has won a grand final has coached as many games as Cleary to win their first GF.

My mate had a point. For example:

Wayne Bennett won his first grand final as a head coach with the Broncos in his 5th season (1992). I’m not counting the season he co-coached the Raiders with Don Furner in 1987.

Craig Bellamy won his first grand final as head coach with the Storm in his 5th season (2007). Although the Storm were stripped of win because of salary cap cheating.

Tim Sheens won his first grand final as head coach of the Raiders in his 6th season of coaching (1989).

Ivan Cleary won his first grand final as head coach of the Panthers in his 16th season of coaching (2021).

Cleary has certainly made up for lost time since then. But you can argue that he needed a great team to do it.

But is he any different to the others on the list? Bennett coached a virtual Origin squad. Bellamy’s squad was significantly over the cap, while the Raiders, although never sanctioned, were supposed to be over the cap also.

All the coaches needed a great team to achieve success.

My vote for the best coach would go to Bellamy. Mainly because of the sustained success he has achieved with Melbourne since 2003.

Good points from both you and your mate. If great players make a great coach then it follows that great organisations also make players and coaches great. I cant Argue with your choice of Bellamy.
Eels tried to sign him for $10m over 4 years.
I can’t help myself from wondering which other coaches could have walked into the job at Storm and finished with a similar record of achievement? Similarly at Penrith, would they have the last 5 GF appearances if Fletcher hadn’t developed the organisation and reduced debt to a manageable level?

 

[jirskyr]

Bellamy has been at the highest level for 20 years. Bennett has been at that level 40 years.

Cleary doesn't even come close. Although this is a Penrith dynasty, you can't overlook that Cleary had some 15 years of mixed to low success before striking gold this tenure.

Bellamy has never experienced down periods like Cleary has. The only strike against Bellamy is he hasn't done it anywhere else under any other conditions.

 

[happy_tiger]

Bellamy has been at the highest level for 20 years. Bennett has been at that level 40 years.

Cleary doesn't even come close. Although this is a Penrith dynasty, you can't overlook that Cleary had some 15 years of mixed to low success before striking gold this tenure.

Bellamy has never experienced down periods like Cleary has. The only strike against Bellamy is he hasn't done it anywhere else under any other conditions.

I think Bennett took 7 or 8 years to win his 1st premiership in the Brisbane rugby league comp .....in 84 his club suffered a record loss in a GF 42 to 10

 

[Tucker]

I totally forgot that Bellamy coached the Broncos.
He had one win…the infamous baby Broncos slapping us at Campbelltown 🤣
Never had a losing season where more games were lost than won. 22 seasons where his worst result was 14 & 12.