Coronavirus Outbreak

[leichhardtjunior]

And GO THE MIGHTY’S 🐯💪

 

[Rugba]

Come on Earl, keep it real.
Inactivated virus vaccine’s, Protein conjugate vaccine’s, what are we talking… 50+years?
(And no i don’t have a peer reviewed thesis on hand Earl, but I think we can agree that they’ve been effectively used in humans for multiple generations an hence have plenty of supporting long term data.)
As opposed to covid mRNA vaccine technology, what 18mths old with maybe 10 mths human use?
(Give or take)
Anyway, I can see this is going nowhere and I’ve wasted enough time so I’ll head off.
You guy’s stay here and keep dancing until you’re ready to ask the honest questions.
Who knows maybe I’ll see ya’s out there one day fighting for our kids’ human and social rights?
Stranger things aye!
Keep it real guys 😉

Can I ask a question , how can you tell any long term or medium term effects from a vaccine shot . If symptoms didn’t present when you had the vaccine .

5 years down the track how can you attribute any health concerns to a vaccine or 50 plus years down the track ?

Oh I had a vaccine 20 years ago , didn’t cause no issue to the heart at the time — oops 20 years later I have a heart attack , yep it’s the vaccines fault .


Also do you know what mRNA vaccines are and what it does that makes it oh so dangerous and scary ( please explain ) and do you know what previous types of vaccines are and do?

 

[earl]

You haven’t provided any “science”, nor anything of substance; just copied/pasted conspiracy theory/anti-vax talking points.

Exactly. He also called out being pro-science but he admitted he has no peer reviewed evidence.

We should all be evidence based. It shouldn't be a political debate.

I'm pretty confident this pandemic has a fair few little twists and turns left even in Australia. We have to follow the evidence/science/facts/reality in relation to making rational decisions going forward.

Anyone with an alternative viewpoint to the current state of science should be able to back up their viewpoint with a peer reviewed research paper and that paper should be backed up with really good data. That has to be the standard now.

I'm cool with the accepted science being proven wrong. Then the theory that proves it wrong is the right theory and accepted science.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Of course you can.
Let’s say, hypothetically of course and we hope it won’t be the case, that some of the many vaccine injuries that are happening now continue to develop in the future. Maybe blood clotting becomes on ongoing or worsening issues over time with age. Maybe the heart issues escalate? Maybe fertility issues arise at an alarming rate? You get the idea.
Anyway, you guys ALL seem to be dancing around my ONLY issue, which is that of the MANDATING of these vaccines. And you all keep reverting to this whole SHOW US THE ACCEPTED DATA for everything and anything deflection.
Is anyone actually interested in applying your own philosophy to my ONLY and ORIGINAL issue?
Or are you just going to keep avoiding the point?

 

[leichhardtjunior]

And yes Rugba I do know the differences between vaccine technologies and how they work.
I’m not going to sit here and spell it out, but as far as being relative to my point, mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and different to previous vaccine technologies. Further to that the only relevant point is that they DO NOT CONTROL TRANSMISSION AT A COMMUNITY LEVEL.

 

[earl]

Anyway, you guys ALL seem to be dancing around my ONLY issue, which is that of the MANDATING of these vaccines.

No we aren't or at least I'm not. I think the problem is pretty obvious. You have a political opinion on a topic whereas we are talking science.

I am not mandating the vaccine to you or anyone else. I'm not actually sure what I think about mandating vaccines.

 

[earl]

DO NOT CONTROL TRANSMISSION AT A COMMUNITY LEVEL.

This is nonsense. It's simply dribble. In an attempt to help you I will re-post something factual which I think is what you mean.

Vaccines do not stop the spread of COVID completely.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Yeah I get that Earl, they reduce transmission at a debatable %. But they’re clearly not close to being effective enough to control transmission in vaccinated communities. Now apply that debatable reduction % to the mortality rate of the virus and tell me my healthy, STATISTICALLY NOT AT RISK child should have to take one for the team.
Its not political Earl
It’s MATHS

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Cut the shit

 

[hammertime]

Yeah I get that Earl, they reduce transmission at a debatable %. But they’re clearly not close to being effective enough to control transmission in vaccinated communities. Now apply that debatable reduction % to the mortality rate of the virus and tell me my healthy, STATISTICALLY NOT AT RISK child should have to take one for the team.
Its not political Earl
It’s MATHS

I'm with you there actually mate. The kids are a debatable aspect of this, considering their rate of transmission and impact... and I'm very Pro-Vax as it's all about community.

I'm actually in Singapore at the moment and we're just letting it run now over here. Interestingly, my son caught it from school about 3 weeks ago. He had a fever for 2 days, then that was it.

I see kids as the only area where choice is far more important as kids are not big transmitters, so the community aspect drops out the equation. The only question for me is around the long term effects of each. Which we have no data on.

It's really a matter of weighing up the risk of the vaccine vs the risk of the virus directly. The thing we all need to consider is that every country will need to just let it transmit very soon so you should consider the risk of catching it is almost a certainty.

I'm going to get it for my little girl. I'll tell you why. If that 0.1% chance that she had an undiagnosed issue that I'm not aware of that will cause a fatality and I make the decision to not vax her, then I won't be able to live with myself.

In HK, I've met people and spoken about the long-term effects of SARS and it's not good. For me, the vaccine is the lower risk on the balance of the information at the moment, assuming there is 0 risk of avoiding the virus altogether.

Could the vaccine have unknown long-term issues? Sure. But so could the virus.

 

[earl]

Yeah I get that Earl, they reduce transmission at a debatable %. But they’re clearly not close to being effective enough to control transmission in vaccinated communities. Now apply that debatable reduction % to the mortality rate of the virus and tell me my healthy, STATISTICALLY NOT AT RISK child should have to take one for the team.
Its not political Earl
It’s MATHS

I'm happy to use maths/statistics. That is actually all I want to use. I also think you should go back and read what I previously posted about vaccinating kids because I already posted something similar. I don't think my viewpoint on vaccinating kids has changed.

I personally don't see the huge benefit to vaccinating kids via the science (which is just the statistics/data). I think the benefit is reducing transmission because a lot of kids get it and then give it to their parents. Kids aren't really getting sick from COVID. I also have an 11 yo and he will get vaccinated but mainly because my wife is a pro-vaccine nutter.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Thanks mate, appreciate all of that 👍

 

[earl]

Could the vaccine have unknown long-term issues? Sure. But so could the virus.

I read your post and I have the exact same take on the situation as you do.

This is the only potential issue but I think the risk is massively one sided on a consequence basis in relation to not being vaccinated.

The unvaccinated are relying on the figure of about 80% of people having mild or no symptoms. The problem is that if you get really sick (or die and this does happen) you probably would have been much better off being vaccinated.

That is the personal risk that you take.

Mandatory vaccinations are more about the societal impact. I think every country has to let it rip to a degree and we can't stop the bloody thing. The more people especially of higher risk demographics are vaccinated the significantly lower the impact to the health system. It doesn't take much for the system to break.

I honestly don't know what you do with mandatory vaccinations but Austria for instance are mandating the vaccine for everyone. That isn't a company or something doing it. It's the government for the whole country. The impact to the local demographic can be extreme.

 

[earl]

Thanks mate, appreciate all of that 👍

This is a loaded topic and we somehow have to try and keep it cool.

 

[jadtiger]

Just reading about the latest mutation in South Africa which is causing great concern amongst many covid experts.It appears to be more contagious and possibly more vaccine resistant (if i read the article correctly).It is on the BBC website atm if you want to have a read

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Just reading about the latest mutation in South Africa which is causing great concern amongst many covid experts.It appears to be more contagious and possibly more vaccine resistant (if i read the article correctly).It is on the BBC website atm if you want to have a read

That variant could make the current vaccines useless

 

[jadtiger]

Just reading about the latest mutation in South Africa which is causing great concern amongst many covid experts.It appears to be more contagious and possibly more vaccine resistant (if i read the article correctly).It is on the BBC website atm if you want to have a read

That variant could make the current vaccines useless

Nobody from the legitimate medical field is suggesting that.No doubt some of the nut jobs and anti vaxers will use it to try and muddy the waters even more to spread as much misinformation as they can.

 

[jadtiger]

Some countries are already isolating southern Africa in an attempt to stop the new strain getting to their country.I would expect our government to follow suit quickly and ban all travel to and from there if we haven't already

 

[tigger]

Some countries are already isolating southern Africa in an attempt to stop the new strain getting to their country.I would expect our government to follow suit quickly and ban all travel to and from there if we haven't already

That will be interesting to see.
At this stage, scientists don't really know what the potential is for this variant, so closing borders to southern Africa appears to be precautionary until such time as the potential impact of the new variant is better understood. Britain and the EU have already taken that decision.
The alternative, to wait until the science is understood, would be higher risk. If the variant is more contagious/deadly the damage will already have been done by the time we find out.
Our government has made a big deal about opening up our borders. I really hope they have their eye on the ball here and aren't just posturing for the upcoming election.

 

[jadtiger]

Some countries are already isolating southern Africa in an attempt to stop the new strain getting to their country.I would expect our government to follow suit quickly and ban all travel to and from there if we haven't already

That will be interesting to see.
At this stage, scientists don't really know what the potential is for this variant, so closing borders to southern Africa appears to be precautionary until such time as the potential impact of the new variant is better understood. Britain and the EU have already taken that decision.
The alternative, to wait until the science is understood, would be higher risk. If the variant is more contagious/deadly the damage will already have been done by the time we find out.
Our government has made a big deal about opening up our borders. I really hope they have their eye on the ball here and aren't just posturing for the upcoming election.

Sadly politics seems to be always be part of our federal governments decisions