Coronavirus Outbreak

[GNR4LIFE]

It’s funny how some people are more scared of a needle than a virus.

 

[earl]

While everyone’s hopeful that covid will evolve into something less harmful, they’re just theories at the moment.

We don't know what is going to happen. Typically viruses like this become much less of an issue over time.

They track how infectious and how deadly diseases are.Typically viruses start out to the right - i.e. more infectious and more deadly. They tend to move more to the left - i.e. less contagious and less deadly.

I think the odds are really in our favor longer term. I could be wrong but going off history this is unlikely.

 

[Tiger5150]

I'll try and post what efficacy rates mean if people don't want to watch the video.

1. Divide your sample population into 2 groups. This needs to be randomized and equal sized. So we want two equal groups. Give one group the vaccine and don't give the other group the vaccine (they get a placebo).
2. Track these people over time.
3. Finish the test and calculate the efficacy rate.


The calculation should work like follows:-

1. Get the number of people with COVID in the placebo group. Get the number of people who are vaccinated who get COVID.
2. Subtract the number of people with COVID who were vaccinated from the number of people who received the placebo who developed COVID. Divide this by the number of COVID cases in the placebo group.

STOP STOP STOP STOP ***JUST STOP.***

Earl you have zero clue.

You do **NOT** *"Subtract the number of people with COVID who were vaccinated from the number of people who received the placebo who developed COVID. Divide this by the number of COVID cases in the placebo group.*". You simply divide the number in each group by the total number who contract COVID. That is how efficacy works, that is how percentages work, that is how mathematics works.

Not only do you have no idea about science, you have also proven you have no idea about mathematics.

YOU NEED TO STOP.


The flaw in the system is that ***it is really hard to compare vaccine A to vaccine B***. The only way you could do this is to complete the studies under the same real time conditions which probably won't happen.

No......its not hard to do this. It is happening all the time.

Here is the New England Journal of Medicine Publishing a recent study doing EXACTLY that showing 88% efficacy (YES EFFICACY) for Pfizer against Delta and 67% for AZ.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Earl you seem to be on a crusade in here to save the forum from misinformation on Covid and be a white knight. You constantly (Particularly to me) and continually put people down stating that they "dont understand science" when in fact you are continually proving that you dont (your latest Vox video the latest example). I believe your intentions are good but particularly lately, in your quest to save us all from misinformation, you continually rely on your opinion which are increasingly incorrect. In your effort to save us from misinformation, lately you are becoming part of the problem.

You need to stop.

 

[Tiger5150]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

I understand your point of view. My earlier response may have come across as judgmental. I apologise.

Absolutely zero need to apologise. We are having a discussion about a subject that will naturally have a broader range of opinions and you have discussed it in good faith and Im all for that, whether we agree or not. For that matter its not a matter of agreeing anyway.

I am fit, healthy and it was the only vaccine available when Kerry Chant pleaded with residents to be vaccinated. I like to do my bit to help the greater good for NSW.

By the way, no idea why anyone would down vote your post, but it wasnt me.

 

[Tiger5150]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

I will answer as i have done the same (am 34). I have a second job at Woolworths (currently my primary job as my sole trader business is closed down as I live in an LGA of concern).
Despite falling in category 2B as i have an autoimmune disease (i would make the same decisions even if this wasn't the case) i was told i was unlikely to have access to Pfizer until the end of the year.
Given im active in the community (and in a higher risk area) for about 30hrs a week I essentially wanted whatever protection I could get rather than wait 6 months for the 'best' protection.

But, I totally understand someone less active e.g. working from home waiting for Pfizer and respect their decision to do so.

Perfect. You've made a rational risk based decision.

I can understand being a little risk averse but people in my opinion are stupid. They are honestly not taking a really good vaccine in the AZ vaccine and they are over 70. It kills me. These people are dropping like flies when they get COVID and they don't get vaccinated.

The way I see it is that it's coming. We can't stop it. Get vaccinated and give yourself the best possible chance.

There are going to be so many people who are unvaccinated and some of them are going to get really sick and some will die. It's not rational. Maybe it's rational in like ,000001% of cases.

I'm going to give up caring though. My family is getting vaccinated. We aren't the ones who will suffer.

Yeah I do not understand why the elderly would not get the AZ. It is sad to see deaths that could have been avoided. But I certainly understand why a younger less active person would not and I would think the same risk adverse young people choosing Pfizer (and the wait time) over AZ would be similarly risk adverse in returning to 'normal' activity levels if possible prior to them being vaccinated.
Those who simply refuse any vaccine however whilst any illness or death is still sad can not be changed no matter how much others may try to pursuade them towards vaccination.

We are 100% in agreement.

The AZ vaccine is very very good. If you don't get the blood clot issue which happens very very rarely then you are good. It's efficacy is really good.

On what basis do you determine that the efficacy "is really good"? A Vox video?

Or actually scientific data?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true


I heard some medical professionals talking recently and one guy said he was now really happy he got the AZ vaccine.

You heard one guys say he was really happy?!?!?!? Well then the CDC can stand down...QED.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It’s funny how some people are more scared of a needle than a virus.

They might change their views if they visit a Covid ward to see how patients suffer and how hard our medical staff fight to keep them alive.

 

[Tiger Beach]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.

The TGA advises 7 deaths linked to the vaxx with a further 418 deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated. The conclusion is that these 418 didn’t die as a result of the vaxx so I’ll respect that view

I would however argue that in much the same manner there is a distinct likelihood that some to many of the so called covid deaths are attributed to people who tested positive using a flawed PCR test and then died of something other than covid. The age profile and co-morbidities would add weight to that view

Also I'm not sure I agree on the age profile moving younger based on this graph

 

[mike]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.

The TGA advises 7 deaths linked to the vaxx with a further 418 deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated. The conclusion is that these 418 didn’t die as a result of the vaxx so I’ll respect that view

I would however argue that in much the same manner there is a distinct likelihood that some to many of the so called covid deaths are attributed to people who tested positive using a flawed PCR test and then died of something other than covid. The age profile and co-morbidities would add weight to that view

Also I'm not sure I agree on the age profile moving younger based on this graph

Do you have any evidence of PCR being flawed. I mean nothing is perfect but a % failure would be nice. I mean what is the % false positive and what is the % false negative (much more concerning).

 

[Tiger5150]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

 

[TillLindemann]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

 

[TillLindemann]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Though I must have been seeing things as it doesn't look like you did quote that at all. Ignore me and carry on.

 

[Tiger5150]

I'll try and post what efficacy rates mean if people don't want to watch the video.

1. Divide your sample population into 2 groups. This needs to be randomized and equal sized. So we want two equal groups. Give one group the vaccine and don't give the other group the vaccine (they get a placebo).
2. Track these people over time.
3. Finish the test and calculate the efficacy rate.


The calculation should work like follows:-

1. Get the number of people with COVID in the placebo group. Get the number of people who are vaccinated who get COVID.
2. Subtract the number of people with COVID who were vaccinated from the number of people who received the placebo who developed COVID. Divide this by the number of COVID cases in the placebo group.

>For Pfizer's trial, the efficacy was (162-8)/162 = 95.1%. For Moderna, there were 95 total cases of >COVID, of which 90 were in the placebo group, so the effectiveness was (90-5)/90 = 94.4%

There are flaws in the system. It is really hard to compare vaccine A to vaccine B. The only way you could do this is to complete the studies under the same real time conditions which probably won't happen.

The other flaw is that if you don't die or get really sick the vaccine has done it's job.

I don't know why so many people have been told the wrong story. The AZ vaccine is really good. The risk of blood clots is really low.

The vaccines were rolled out according to risk profile which I think is correct.

Earl you went back and edited this post, but left all the rubbish about incorrect calculations of efficacy which are 100% incorrect and spreading misinformation.

You also went back and ***ADDED*** *"I don’t know why so many people have been told the wrong story. The AZ vaccine is really good."* **AFTER** I posted the New England Journal of Medicine Study demonstrating the relative efficacy between Pfizer and AZ.

What is the rationale behind ***knowingly*** posting and spreading misinformation? Seriously?

 

[Tiger5150]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Though I must have been seeing things as it doesn't look like you did quote that at all. Ignore me and carry on.

No I misquoted the original post and had that original quote about the bath hanging at the top there. Went back and edited so as not to misrepresent anyone. You werent seeing things.

 

[earl]

I'm not reading that guys posts because he consistently misquotes and misrepresnts me. I suggest everyone speaks to their GP for advice. I suggest looking at the NSW or Australian government health line for advice. I suggest listening to the NSW press conference.

I am more than happy to provide factual information in relation to the Pfizer vaccines and efficacy rates. I don't really want to do this.I think it's stupid and chldlish but I'll do it and we can go from there. If anyone disagrees with what I'm stating I'm happy to respond.

Lastly I'm not a doctor. All I'm doing is filtering through a deluge of information and picking the general line. I'm looking at data and facts. That means to my mind proper information. I mean medical and scientific experts. My opinion on the Pfizer vaccine may be very similar to that guys posts but he misrepresents what I state.

 

[Tiger Beach]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.

The TGA advises 7 deaths linked to the vaxx with a further 418 deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated. The conclusion is that these 418 didn’t die as a result of the vaxx so I’ll respect that view

I would however argue that in much the same manner there is a distinct likelihood that some to many of the so called covid deaths are attributed to people who tested positive using a flawed PCR test and then died of something other than covid. The age profile and co-morbidities would add weight to that view

Also I'm not sure I agree on the age profile moving younger based on this graph

Do you have any evidence of PCR being flawed. I mean nothing is perfect but a % failure would be nice. I mean what is the % false positive and what is the % false negative (much more concerning).

I'm sure you can research that yourself Mike, there's loads of information out there and anything I post I sense is highly disregarded. There are significant concerns about cycle levels used and I'm sure you've read them. The WHO have backed away from it and the creator of the test himself also expressed his view that it wasn't fit for the purpose it was being used for

 

[Papacito]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Serious question, how does an adult die from having a bath?

I can appreciate there might be other factors (like having a heart attack and then drowning) but the risk comparison of a healthy person sitting in a bath vs a healthy person getting a vaccine does not seem right.

By the way, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

 

[mike]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.

The TGA advises 7 deaths linked to the vaxx with a further 418 deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated. The conclusion is that these 418 didn’t die as a result of the vaxx so I’ll respect that view

I would however argue that in much the same manner there is a distinct likelihood that some to many of the so called covid deaths are attributed to people who tested positive using a flawed PCR test and then died of something other than covid. The age profile and co-morbidities would add weight to that view

Also I'm not sure I agree on the age profile moving younger based on this graph

Do you have any evidence of PCR being flawed. I mean nothing is perfect but a % failure would be nice. I mean what is the % false positive and what is the % false negative (much more concerning).

I'm sure you can research that yourself Mike, there's loads of information out there and anything I post I sense is highly disregarded. There are significant concerns about cycle levels used and I'm sure you've read them. The WHO have backed away from it and the creator of the test himself also expressed his view that it wasn't fit for the purpose it was being used for

Well that’s rather disappointing. I was throwing you a bone. I thought you would have some inkling. If your were to post some scientific literature it wouldn’t be ignored. But I guess then you don’t have any to back up your statements. Do you even know what cycle level used means?

 

[TillLindemann]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Serious question, how does an adult die from having a bath?

I can appreciate there might be other factors (like having a heart attack and then drowning) but the risk comparison of a healthy person sitting in a bath vs a healthy person getting a vaccine does not seem right.

By the way, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

Dunno? Maybe try to get out, do some kind of Robert Jennings slip, land face down and drown?

 

[TheDaBoss]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Serious question, how does an adult die from having a bath?

I can appreciate there might be other factors (like having a heart attack and then drowning) but the risk comparison of a healthy person sitting in a bath vs a healthy person getting a vaccine does not seem right.

By the way, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

Toaster in bath to try and turn into toaster man?

 

[hobbo1]

Do you blokes have jobs ?