Coronavirus Outbreak

[earl]

Do you blokes have jobs ?

Awesome question. Not at the moment.

I was waiting for someone to ask. I don't know how I have the time. I gotta go now. The sad thing is I had that information on hand.

 

[hobbo1]

Do you blokes have jobs ?

Awesome question. Not at the moment.

I was waiting for someone to ask. I don't know how I have the time. I gotta go now. The sad thing is I had that information on hand.

I thought you were all unemployed GP’s for some reason .

 

[Tiger5150]

I'm not reading that guys posts because he consistently misquotes and misrepresnts me.

And yet you responded......without reading my posts?


I am more than happy ***to provide factual information*** in relation to the Pfizer vaccines and efficacy rates. ***I don't really want to do this.I think it's stupid and chldlish*** but I'll do it and we can go from there. If anyone disagrees with what I'm stating I'm happy to respond.

It is "stupid and childish" to "provide factual information" so you really dont want to do this? Have I misquoted you here? Im reading that you dont want to post factual information because it is childish and stupid. You would much rather post Vox videos and then spread misinformation about the vaccines rather than the childish and stupid idea of posting actual factual information?

Rightio.....

I have repeatedly posted actual scientific journals proving what you are saying is completely wrong. Not a little bit, 100% completely wrong and misleading. People make decisions on these basis. You are being deliberatley misleading and you should stop.


Lastly I'm not a doctor. All I'm doing is filtering through a deluge of information and picking the general line. I'm looking at data and facts. That means to my mind proper information. I mean medical and scientific experts. My opinion on the Pfizer vaccine may be very similar to that guys posts but he misrepresents what I state.

Correct me if Im wrong, but you have clearly and repeatedly stated that the AZ has the same efficacy as Pfizer. This is 100% wrong as proven here. https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

You also posted that the stated efficacy are wrong and tried to prove it with a Vox video. You went on to post the wrong formula for calculating percentage efficacy. Have I misrepresented anything?

For your information AGAIN, the correct information for Pfizer efficacy is inthe New England Journal of Medicine here. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

and relative to AZ here https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

As you can see I have gone down the "stupid and childish" route of proving what I say with actual scientific data. Possibly cant compare with a Vox video but is has served western science for a couple of centuries.

Earl, me calling you out here is not a personal thing. You are ACTUALLY spreading misinformation, intentionally and doubling down when called on it. Then you run and hide when I call you out by saying "Im not responding to that guy because he misquotes me". Its not about me, its about the rubbish and misinformation that you are spreading. At the moment you are no different from the Radoushs and others you have railed against here.

The right thing is to say "Oh I was wrong about that"....or alternatively provide information that backs up what you are saying. Its not about me or you trying to prove that they are "smarter" than the other (although you repeatedly state I dont understand science so there is some delicious irony there), it is about providing the right information. Im not saying I am smarter. Its not a competition. I am posting the ACTUAL information. If you posted a peer reviewed study proving the opposite then I/we would have to look into why my or your information differs and what the conclusion is. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SCIENCE IS.

As it stands Earl, you are intentionally, knowingly spreading misinformation for your own purposes. It is dangerous and it needs to stop or someone needs to stop you.

It is important. I am not saying that AZ is not a good vaccine but I AM saying it has a significantly higher efficacy against Delta (or Alpha) than AZ. This is simply a fact. This fact is an important part of my decision making. It may not be for others. Others here have logically stated that they got the AZ because it was quicker and more available and these are very reasonable reasons to get the AZ, but efficacy MUST be part of the decision. Some decide I want to get vaxxed now to not run the risk of waiting, others (like me) want to run the risk of waiting for that higher efficacy. For som eit might be about the clots.

It is important that the discussion is not polluted by rubbish and misinformation and you KNOW this. Yo ualso know that you are currently spreading misinformation. You need to stop.

 

[Geo]

When's the footy start..

 

[Tim Sheens]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Obviously not anti-vax, but you have raised important points. All covid vaccines for use here have only **provisional** approvals, made through a reasonably thorough process, often with much more information than others that had provided emergency use authorisations, nonetheless still **not** fully approved here either. The recent limited AZ change of advice is basically emergency use.

Limitations later rightly placed based on known risk factors, even if considered relatively minor by some as they became apparent and then of course comes the relevant efficacy. We have people on here questioning everything, which they have the right to do, so accuracy and transparency become even more important.

Each of us needs to make an informed decision, taking whatever is important to the individual and those close to them into account as part of that process. I see no selfishness in anyone choosing the right path for them when it is heading towards vaccination.

 

[mike]

When's the footy start..

Saturday

 

[mike]

A man has been charged after an essential healthcare worker was allegedly assaulted while working at a COVID-19 testing site in Sydney’s north-west earlier this week.

About 4pm on Monday (9 August 2021), a female staff member was performing duties at a COVID-19 testing site at Kissing Point Road, Dundas, when she was approached by an unknown man who was not wearing a mask.

Police were told the man began filming the 31-year-old worker on his mobile phone, before verbally abusing her about vaccinations.

The man then allegedly dislodged the woman’s mask and punched her to the head. Several people awaiting testing exited their cars and assisted the woman.

The man fled the scene on foot and officers from the Cumberland Police Area Command attended and commenced an investigation.

The woman was treated at the scene and did not require hospitalisation.

Following inquiries, investigators from Cumberland arrested a 50-year-old man at a home on Shortland Street, Telopea, just after 10.30am today (Wednesday 11 August 2021).

He was taken to Granville Police Station, where he was charged with common assault, two counts of possess prohibited drug and breach of the public health orders.

The man was granted conditional bail to attend Parramatta Local Court on Tuesday 28 September 2021.

 

[Tiger5150]

Here is some info on the Pfizer vaccine in Israel.

Israel -
After 2 doses protection against infection -- 39% down from 90%
Syptomatic infection -- 41%
Very sick -- 88%
Hospitatlised -- 91.4%

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&s=09
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/corona-flu-10072021/en/files_weekly-flu-corona_EN-2021_corona-flu-week-27-EN.pdf
https://govextra.gov.il/ministry-of-health/corona/corona-virus-en/
https://www.gov.il/en/departments/topics/corona-main-sub

Ok, at least you are posting something other than a Vox video.....but....

The first link is a newspaper article (not a scientific article) that does discuss reduced efficacy and also another UK study showing 88% efficacy. The other three links you provided have NOTHING about efficacy.

The important thing here is, we are discussing the efficacy of Pfizer relative to AZ. What is the efficacy of AZ in Israel? ( I know you know the answer).

Efficacy rates are not really useful because the data changes. Those efficacy rates were at a point in time. The virus has changed. We will get better data over time and the picture will change again.

Efficacy rates arent useful? Seriously? What if the efficacy rate was 24%? would it be useful to know that? What about when the vaccines were being proven safe and effective for use? Useful? You are not an antivaxxer are you?

What about if there was way......of testing the two vaccines, at the same time, under the same conditions? Would that be useful? If they were tested at the same time, under the same conditions, would that not prove the relative efficacy of the two vaccines.....like 88% vs 67%? Like https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

***Don't let the little tiny details trick you***. The efficacy of the Pfizer vaccines has decreased in Israel however the big picture remains. Do you think Pfizer vaccine has changed ?

Here is a little detail for you that hopefully wont trick you......PFIZER IS THE ONLY vaccine used in Israel. There is ZERO AZ used in Israel. That is kinda a big detail is it not? PFIZER HAS NOT CHANGED, the variant has changed to Delta AND YOU KNOW IT. AZ might have a 5% efficacy in Israel against the Delta, it is not used and we will never know.

This is absolute proof that you are knowingly and willingly lying to spread misinformation adn I am calling you out, infact I am calling out the mods to stop this. I told you previously and posted a scientific journal proving and explaining that Pfizer is the only vaccine in Israel and yet you knowingly twist this to imply the efficacy of Pfizer is at fault despite published journals proving otherwise.


I think there is another piece of big picture information that people haven't gotten. The health advice has been pretty spot on. Older people should get the AZ vaccine. Younger should get the Pfizer. The risk equation is changing because we have the Delta variant and it is twice as infectious.

oh because of the Delta variant and twice as infectious? Unless we are in Israel?

That video I posted by Vox provides the information on efficacy that I understand to be correct. ***I am happy to respond to anyone who directly quotes me and improves my information. That would be good for me.***

Ok....pauses.....I am directly quoting you here, that you are *"happy to respond to anyone who directly quotes me and improves my information. That would be good for me."* and that it would be "good for you".

Ok....here is a study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, that PROVES that both Pfizer and AZ have reduced efficacy against Delta compared to Alpha and that Pfizer has an efficacy of 88% against contracting Delta compared to 67% for AZ.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true.

Here is a scientific article, again in the New England Journal of Medicine showing the correct calculation for efficacy. By the way, I watched the Vox video before the mods correctly took it down. The calculation in the video was correct, your method is wrong.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

I dont expect you to read or respond because you are too set on spreading your misinformation.

 

[Tiger5150]

Do you blokes have jobs ?

"Work" for myself....saving the world from Earl is just a hobby.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Police and legal officers are drafting modifications to existing health orders relating to

1. ownership of two homes and owners being able to travel to the second home during lockdowns
2. issues around the single bubble.

Also there is a request for additional ADF personnel for the hot spot areas.

From what was advised on 9, Police consider the existing health orders work for the public but not the Police.

This follows what was reported as a fiery meeting between Brad Hazzard and David Elliott. The new health orders if accepted have to be redrafted in 48 hours.

 

[hobbo1]

Do you blokes have jobs ?

"Work" for myself....saving the world from Earl is just a hobby.

You wouldn’t happen to be a mobile barber ?
I pay cash !

 

[Papacito]

Posting this in the hope of helping anyone doing it tough during lockdown.

I've been stuck in a Sydney covid red zone for what seems like forever.

My missus has been out of work, my kids can't go to school or do sport - although I'm fortunate to be able to do my job from home.

Here's what has kept me sane:

- Making some progress on some home landscaping projects that have been put off for a while
- Putting in an hour or so every day on some money making projects and getting good results
- Getting a solid home gym routine going
- Daily walks (although I have been hassled by the boys in blue a few times)
- Brushing up on a couple of other languages that I learned when I was younger

If anyone needs a few tips on getting through, send me a message.

 

[Tiger5150]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Obviously not anti-vax, but you have raised important points. All covid vaccines for use here have only **provisional** approvals, made through a reasonably thorough process, often with much more information than others that had provided emergency use authorisations, nonetheless still **not** fully approved here either. The recent limited AZ change of advice is basically emergency use.

Limitations later rightly placed based on known risk factors, even if considered relatively minor by some as they became apparent and then of course comes the relevant efficacy. We have people on here questioning everything, which they have the right to do, so accuracy and transparency become even more important.

Each of us needs to make an informed decision, taking whatever is important to the individual and those close to them into account as part of that process. I see no selfishness in anyone choosing the right path for them when it is heading towards vaccination.

Well put. I have had back and forths with a few here and other threads. These are important issues and its not about personalities, its about ensuring that factual information is provided. It is also important for ALL of us to question our biases and opinions. All of us think our opinions are right but on an issue like this it is critical that we challenge our own biases and opinions with quality data.

Months ago I was making some pretty strident statements regarding Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) and its place in the scheme of things. At the time it was my preference that an Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) regime be implemented rather than vaccines. Over time and continually testing of my opinions based on data, I havent thrown that out totally, I still think there is a strong scientific signal there, just as I remain very concerned about the overt suppression of information, but I also have changed my biases to an acknowledgement that in a risk benefit analysis, vaccinations are the exit strategy.

 

[Tiger5150]

Do you blokes have jobs ?

"Work" for myself....saving the world from Earl is just a hobby.

You wouldn’t happen to be a mobile barber ?
I pay cash !

If you saw my hair, I make Pascoe look good

 

[mike]

Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

The Sydney basin needed to be isolated no later than the **Thursday prior to school holidays** commencing. Instead we have have had other states and regions in lockdown and at this rate are probably going to be an outlier state until closer to the end of the year than the Grand Final.

Did you mean the Thursday before 20th September? The 20th is when the next school holidays start. Or did you mean tomorrow 12th August?

 

[FinestTigers]

Mmk...

Likely for some Newcastle/Hunter lockdowns to be extended today, allegedly.

I think once summer hits, it's going to be extremely hard to keep people inside and not going to the beach.

Should be a rush to get this sorted as best they can before summer, IMO.

The cutoff points for the Hunter lockdowns were weird, ending at Muswellbrook and not including Aberdeen or Scone was a mistake and I would expect that to be extended.

Yeah, pretty weird...
I'm reading they'll extend lockdowns 2 weeks.
Likely, later today.

Feel sorry for everyone impacted, across the country.

Will be announced at 11 mate

Mmk...

Likely for some Newcastle/Hunter lockdowns to be extended today, allegedly.

I think once summer hits, it's going to be extremely hard to keep people inside and not going to the beach.

Should be a rush to get this sorted as best they can before summer, IMO.

The cutoff points for the Hunter lockdowns were weird, ending at Muswellbrook and not including Aberdeen or Scone was a mistake and I would expect that to be extended.

Yeah, pretty weird...
I'm reading they'll extend lockdowns 2 weeks.
Likely, later today.

Feel sorry for everyone impacted, across the country.

Will be announced at 11 mate

Indeed.

I'll put on that Covid-19 channel on Foxtel and see what they have to say.

Hope you're holding up well Cochise.

Finding it tough, 7 weeks in. Its really hard for my daughter, it is getting to her and she was begging me last night to let her go to school for just one day. She is 8 and hasn't played with another kid for 7 weeks, it really is a little heart breaking to see the negative impact it is having on her.

That's rough.
There is no replacing the social aspect of schooling.
Hoping it works its self out soon.

The iPad and messenger for kids works a treat but isn't the same.

Yeah, I always said I wouldn't get her an ipad but relented for that very reason. Been buying things like totem tennis and things to keep her busy, but its hard when she is by herself and only has me to play with.

100%
You're aware but just a reminder, you're not the only one feeling this way. Hard time for all, unfortunately.

These lockdowns are isolating and no surprise the mental health hospitals and services are getting smashed.

Hope everyone's handling it the best they can, utilising whatever they have inside their homes to keep busy and keep their mind active.

This is a challenge and hopefully we'll all be stronger after conquering it.

Inbox is open for anyone feeling they need a chat.

Thanks mate, I'm actually feeling a lot better than I did last week.

In regards to mental health it does seem that there will be many sad stories that will be heard due to these lockdowns, and even as many or more that **will not be heard**.

When the freedom of a community has been restrained for so long, some of those individuals are not going to handle the lockdown as good as some other individuals, and it really doesn't matter what type of a person it is, **it can be anybody.**

When locked down and at home, Some people would try to manage some of their awkward situations by going into lets say **silent depression** with the intention of supposedly avoiding conflict with their family members, but this attitude can lead to frustration, then aggression, and than **even DV**. and you can guess the rest. It's all very sad.

Dear @cochise this topic could all be discussed in the Players>People>Socialmedia>Psychology, thread,
Please delete my last post in there with the realisation now that it did give a negative impression of a frustrated, distressed person, **i apologise**, but i now know how to better manage my frustrations, it is also worth noting here and to realise that these **undesired reactions** by a person is controlled by a function in our brain by what is known as the "**amygdala**" The amygdala is primarily involved in the processing of emotions and memories associated with fear. The amygdala is considered to be a part of the limbic system within the brain and is key to how we process strong emotions like fear or pleasure. The challenge for all of us then is to know how to refine these reactions so as to not to cause chaos in situations of **fear and threats**.

I beleive that thread could be beneficial for all of us to know more about the awareness of social behaviour how it is defined and how it is viewed from the science of psychology.

Like i've said before i do not have any experience in this field, but being married with children in a covid lockdown and now spending a considerable amount of time on social media such as this one has made me determined?? to learn more about social media and psychology.

So my wish now is that the deleted post be replaced by this one then allow the thread to resume from there. Cheers

 

[cochise]

Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

The Sydney basin needed to be isolated no later than the **Thursday prior to school holidays** commencing. Instead we have have had other states and regions in lockdown and at this rate are probably going to be an outlier state until closer to the end of the year than the Grand Final.

Did you mean the Thursday before 20th September? The 20th is when the next school holidays start. Or did you mean tomorrow 12th August?

He meant last holidays

 

[Tim Sheens]

A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.

The TGA advises 7 deaths linked to the vaxx with a further 418 deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated. The conclusion is that these 418 didn’t die as a result of the vaxx so I’ll respect that view

I would however argue that in much the same manner there is a distinct likelihood that some to many of the so called covid deaths are attributed to people who tested positive using a flawed PCR test and then died of something other than covid. The age profile and co-morbidities would add weight to that view

Also I'm not sure I agree on the age profile moving younger based on this graph

To be fair, you would get similar results if you wrote: are not suited to or could die from playing rugby league, above the graph.

 

[mike]

Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

The Sydney basin needed to be isolated no later than the **Thursday prior to school holidays** commencing. Instead we have have had other states and regions in lockdown and at this rate are probably going to be an outlier state until closer to the end of the year than the Grand Final.

Did you mean the Thursday before 20th September? The 20th is when the next school holidays start. Or did you mean tomorrow 12th August?

He meant last holidays

Thanks, I couldn’t make sense of it. That clears it up. I missed the word needed, past tense.

 

[tigger]

On the general subject of Covid misinformation, this from the BBC in relation to Sky Australia:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58168048