Defensive issues: an analysis

[underdog]

Can we do a petition to get Jirskyr into the box doing Simon Dwyers job?

Isn't this the kind of stuff Simon Dwyer should be doing? video analysis - looking at the psychology behind the science - knowing what players will do before they themselves even know?

Not having a sledge at the big guy, but Jirskyr has just schooled us numpties using a laptop, and an NRL pass subscription, over the course of a couple of hours. (if that) - Imagine if he was getting paid to do it! :stuck_out_tongue:

:master:

 

[PYMBLEPETE]

Agree with 2041, the best analysis I have seen on this forum. Great stuff jirkyr.

 

[BornBlack_amp_Gold]

Excellently presented jiirskyr. Nice job!

 

[cunno]

Good work jiirskyr, in regard to the defensive lapses you have pointed out, have you thought about how our backs could be better structured in defence and how Teddy fits into this. Given JT wont change his team how can they be better used from your observations?

 

[Russell]

Top job jirskyr - appreciate your work.

A couple of those plays happened near where I was standing - it was good to see it in stills and be able to analyse at leisure instead of live speed.

Loved your explanations as well - keep up the good work.

 

[cktiger]

Here is the simple answer - stick to your man and put him on his bum on his before he can pass the ball.

 

[happy_tiger]

I think the major reason they pass early is because we seem to struggle to hold onto the ball when we play flat and at the line

I would prefer to see both or either Brooks or Moses take on the line early and at pace , this will create some room for their outside backs as it creates second thoughts in defenders

Give the 2nd man 2nd man play a rest also , Tedesco gets pounded because most teams sit on this

Try a variation where we cut Tedesco out and this will also create room for the outside players , if Tedesco can stay alive and the outside man hits Tedesco on the inside this will create room for Teddy and get him behind the opposition defence

Anytime you can get Tedesco one on one with the opposition fullback is a good thing

 

[hobbo]

I think the major reason they pass early is because we seem to struggle to hold onto the ball when we play flat and at the line

I would prefer to see both or either Brooks or Moses take on the line early and at pace , this will create some room for their outside backs as it creates second thoughts in defenders

Give the 2nd man 2nd man play a rest also , Tedesco gets pounded because most teams sit on this

Try a variation where we cut Tedesco out and this will also create room for the outside players , if Tedesco can stay alive and the outside man hits Tedesco on the inside this will create room for Teddy and get him behind the opposition defence

Anytime you can get Tedesco one on one with the opposition fullback is a good thing

I thought Tedesco would've taken on Zelezniak last week ( one on one ) !

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[Geo]

Nice analysis jirskyr…

One thing I noticed at the game was the speed or lack thereof Wests Tigers were both in arrack and defence....even the speed at which they walked back time and time again after the Pamfers scored...

 

[jirskyr]

Good work jiirskyr, in regard to the defensive lapses you have pointed out, have you thought about how our backs could be better structured in defence and how Teddy fits into this. Given JT wont change his team how can they be better used from your observations?

Mate I'm no pro, but I think it is as simple as sliding against backline decoy plays, and always numbering up from the outside.

It starts with line speed, which we usually struggle to maintain, to cut down the attack timing and options. Then you slide if they start to get around you.

The play that killed us last week was fullback sweeping around the decoy to create the extra man. It works because halves are worried about big bodies and fullbacks are always an extra man (because your fullback is out back).

Brooks continually picked up the decoy too strongly and this created 3 on 2 outside him. It was compounded by the outside men charging in rather than trying to stay on their own man.

The solution here is to not commit so hard to the runner on the inside shoulder, if there is another runner appearing out the back. The decoy becomes the concern of the inside defender and your concern becomes the player on your outside shoulder.

If the backrower goes outside shoulder, odds are he will get the ball, because otherwise he is likely to cause an obstruction and it becomes much harder for the fullback to get around him and create the overlap. If the backrower goes inside, he is much more likely to be a decoy, and even if he gets the ball, you are going to have your own backrower there to cover.

The pics I uploaded show how hard Brooks commits to the decoys, and the outside men don't trust his recovery and come charging in. It's much easier to cover inside because of shorter distance to run and the defensive fullback will be closer, so you should not go so hard at inside runners.

Compare to Wallace who certainly tracked the inside decoys, but he does not commit hard and is quickly adjusting when the extra man appears around the back. The Panthers centre and wing slide to hold their position, Wallace comes across on Tedesco and the play is shut down.

 

[jirskyr]

Give the 2nd man 2nd man play a rest also , Tedesco gets pounded because most teams sit on this

I think it depends how good the decoys are. To be fair, Siro is an effective decoy, because he often gets the ball, he runs decent lines to attract defenders (not that he could not run harder) and he has an offload in him. Tedesco was doing great early-season, going behind Siro and hitting Simona/Richards.

Marty TAupau was used to great effect out wide against the Rabbits, I was disappointed not to see this used again against Penrith.

Lawrence has become a force again at second row, precisely because of how good he is at running effective hard lines.

But the halves need to take it right to the line, to commit the defenders more, and Tedesco needs the ball on his chest as he sweeps around.

Sometimes we run this play really hard and fast, looks a treat, very threatening. We got it right about 6 or 7 times in a row against the Dragons Rd 2 and cut them to shreds.

But many many times, this play is just too disjointed - bad passes, players out of position, lack of pace / depth.

Furthermore, having Nofo and Simona outside you as an option is much more threatening than Milone or Hoeter. No reason to stick on your centre when he is NSW Cup level; all the more reason to go in hard at Tedesco.

And part of the reason why Tedesco is able to affect so many tackle breaks, because he gets lined up so often.

 

[Mickeyboy]

Excellent analysis jirskyr, if you could just put it all into a powerpoint presentation you probably have a first grade coaching job at the Wests Tigers come round 13, 2016!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Give the 2nd man 2nd man play a rest also , Tedesco gets pounded because most teams sit on this

I think it depends how good the decoys are. To be fair, Siro is an effective decoy, because he often gets the ball, he runs decent lines to attract defenders (not that he could not run harder) and he has an offload in him. Tedesco was doing great early-season, going behind Siro and hitting Simona/Richards.

Marty TAupau was used to great effect out wide against the Rabbits, I was disappointed not to see this used again against Penrith.

Lawrence has become a force again at second row, precisely because of how good he is at running effective hard lines.

But the halves need to take it right to the line, to commit the defenders more, and Tedesco needs the ball on his chest as he sweeps around.

Sometimes we run this play really hard and fast, looks a treat, very threatening. We got it right about 6 or 7 times in a row against the Dragons Rd 2 and cut them to shreds.

But many many times, this play is just too disjointed - bad passes, players out of position, lack of pace / depth.

Furthermore, having Nofo and Simona outside you as an option is much more threatening than Milone or Hoeter. No reason to stick on your centre when he is NSW Cup level; all the more reason to go in hard at Tedesco.

And part of the reason why Tedesco is able to affect so many tackle breaks, because he gets lined up so often.

We just need to ease back on it Jirskyr at times

I'd rather it as our surprise play , not our go to play

Its like bowling bouncers in cricket , bowl too many and they are easy to read and pick off

 

[Geo]

We just need to ease back on it Jirskyr at times

I'd rather it as our surprise play , not our go to play

Its like bowling bouncers in cricket , bowl too many and they are easy to read and pick off

Curtly Ambrose Joel Garner Malcolm Marshall Andy Roberts et al say hello… :laughing:

 

[cunno]

Good work jiirskyr, in regard to the defensive lapses you have pointed out, have you thought about how our backs could be better structured in defence and how Teddy fits into this. Given JT wont change his team how can they be better used from your observations?

Mate I'm no pro, but I think it is as simple as sliding against backline decoy plays, and always numbering up from the outside.

It starts with line speed, which we usually struggle to maintain, to cut down the attack timing and options. Then you slide if they start to get around you.

The play that killed us last week was fullback sweeping around the decoy to create the extra man. It works because halves are worried about big bodies and fullbacks are always an extra man (because your fullback is out back).

Brooks continually picked up the decoy too strongly and this created 3 on 2 outside him. It was compounded by the outside men charging in rather than trying to stay on their own man.

The solution here is to not commit so hard to the runner on the inside shoulder, if there is another runner appearing out the back. The decoy becomes the concern of the inside defender and your concern becomes the player on your outside shoulder.

If the backrower goes outside shoulder, odds are he will get the ball, because otherwise he is likely to cause an obstruction and it becomes much harder for the fullback to get around him and create the overlap. If the backrower goes inside, he is much more likely to be a decoy, and even if he gets the ball, you are going to have your own backrower there to cover.

The pics I uploaded show how hard Brooks commits to the decoys, and the outside men don't trust his recovery and come charging in. It's much easier to cover inside because of shorter distance to run and the defensive fullback will be closer, so you should not go so hard at inside runners.

Compare to Wallace who certainly tracked the inside decoys, but he does not commit hard and is quickly adjusting when the extra man appears around the back. The Panthers centre and wing slide to hold their position, Wallace comes across on Tedesco and the play is shut down.

Thanks mate given the effort you have put in to your analysis, I was interested in your views re solutions thanks. I find it interesting that first graders come running in for defence this is a problem I used to get coaching juniors until they got the idea of not panicking keeping a steady defensive line, manning off and forcing the attack towards the sideline with defenders inside covering the inside and not leaving those on the flanks stranded. I am surprised our defensive coach doesn't appear to have worked on our wide defense to the required level.

 

[jirskyr]

I find it interesting that first graders come running in for defence this is a problem I used to get coaching juniors until they got the idea of not panicking keeping a steady defensive line, manning off and forcing the attack towards the sideline with defenders inside covering the inside and not leaving those on the flanks stranded. I am surprised our defensive coach doesn't appear to have worked on our wide defense to the required level.

I totally agree, I am surprised we don't/can't hold our shape more often. I sometimes wonder about the tactical / spatial awareness that players have, because some are just naturally good at numbering up and spreading out, others are always in the wrong place.

 

[Newtown]

The problem with our defensive pattern, especially in the backline, is that throughout this season we have used and placed our defensive trust in novice inexperienced centres who are not yet adept to the defensive requirements of first grade. In fact two such centres have been selected for Monday's match. We need at least one good defensive centre with more natural speed more than that of Lovett who will most fill centre again if one of the chosen centres are injured on Monday .

 

[happy_tiger]

We just need to ease back on it Jirskyr at times

I'd rather it as our surprise play , not our go to play

Its like bowling bouncers in cricket , bowl too many and they are easy to read and pick off

Curtly Ambrose Joel Garner Malcolm Marshall Andy Roberts et al say hello… :laughing:

Cool mun :sunglasses: