Electricity Prices - smart meter scam?

[mikey]

My sons and I build custom homes in a rural area. Son 3 and I come from and electrical background - Son 2 is a chippie/mechanic. We don't talk about son 1 - he is a geek and lives in Queensland 🤣 We don't compete for solar installations but do them on our own homes. I have done complete off grid systems and grid connected - with and without battery.

Unless you are off grid because you dont have power close enought it is not worth the effort. You would pay a lot of standard bills for the amount you will fork out over the life of the solar installation. What the solar installers don't tell you is that the average lifespan of the components is 25 years for panels, 8-12 years for batteries (provided they are looked after) and 8 years for the inverter. So plan on changing the inverter over twice, batteries at least once and then throw the system out and start again after 25 years. That adds up quickly.

I have replaced pelnty of Chunesium inverters after 4 years (right out of warranty). I expect you will find the same with some of the early lithium tech (batteries). You do get what you play in with your solar installation.

Thanks for that info. The mate I referred to does live in an area where it is not possible to afford power. His last system - 1.5kw - lasted 18 years but basically only ran the lights and some other electricals - fridge and stove were gas.
He prefers lead acid batteries rather than lithium and has installed them on his current system (24 volt). He now runs fridge, electricals and peripherals off that. Obviously he has to be frugal still.
I know it's probably pie in the sky for me with my electrical usage but I'm over the bullshit and ever-increasing costs of things just for corporate greed. That is exactly what has happened with electricity meters imo.

 

[mikey]

Switch to Ampol Energy.. cheapest rate by far…. Plus you get 10cL discount on Ampol fuel

Ampol Energy | Residential Electricity Supplier in New South Wales

energy.ampol.com.au

Looked at that but you need an old-style meter in my area to join them on those rates.

 

[mikey]

You make some valid points there @Jolls
My husband is a solar designer and installer. We have been completely off grid since November 2013. We started off with second hand batteries and they didn't last very long because someone (ahem, me) didn't use the power properly. So we've put in new batteries about 8 years ago, and they're still going well.

If you go off grid, you have to be 100% honest with your designer about your usage. You have to follow their instructions. And for the love of all things,read the manual and don't ring us at 7.00am on fathers day to say all your power's gone and you can't get the generator to charge the batteries! 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

You are absolutely correct when you say you get what you pay for. Higher initial price usually equates to a better system.

Research your components and installers. And check your hot water systems when the new meter goes in.

Interesting. All good if you don't want to tell me but what size system and batteries did you install? Are your appliances all 24 volt? Approximate up-front costs?
We use around 11kwh a day atm in a 2 person household.
I wouldn't describe myself as frugal with power. Both my wife and I could cut back on some of our usage.

 

[Suzie-Q]

Interesting. All good if you don't want to tell me but what size system and batteries did you install? Are your appliances all 24 volt? Approximate up-front costs?
We use around 11kwh a day atm in a 2 person household.
I wouldn't describe myself as frugal with power. Both my wife and I could cut back on some of our usage.

All our appliances are normal, household appliances, mostly from Hardly Normals. At the moment we have a 5kW system with 12 panels. And batteries and more to be added (batteries and panels) but I'm not sure of battery size. We are a 4 person household (3 adults, 1 teen), but have been 2, 3, and 5 at different times. We have run the generator about 5 times this Winter. I have no idea on cost, as hubby gets it wholesale, it was set up as a display installation, it's 11 years old, and (privileged, I know) I just don't have to worry about that side of things.

It was a learning curve to manage the power. Timers are key for us, as I work an hour away. It's key for us to use the most power as it comes in and be conservative at night. That being said, I can run the dishwasher,or the washing machine, at night occasionally.

 

[mikey]

All our appliances are normal, household appliances, mostly from Hardly Normals. At the moment we have a 5kW system with 12 panels. And batteries and more to be added (batteries and panels) but I'm not sure of battery size. We are a 4 person household (3 adults, 1 teen), but have been 2, 3, and 5 at different times. We have run the generator about 5 times this Winter. I have no idea on cost, as hubby gets it wholesale, it was set up as a display installation, it's 11 years old, and (privileged, I know) I just don't have to worry about that side of things.

It was a learning curve to manage the power. Timers are key for us, as I work an hour away. It's key for us to use the most power as it comes in and be conservative at night. That being said, I can run the dishwasher,or the washing machine, at night occasionally.

Cheers thanks for the information. Glad to see you can mainly run it as a normal household. Appreciate the fact that Mr Suzie gets it wholesale. Any chance he would name a ballpark retail price out of interest? No need for detail. Just want to get an idea if it is doable for me.

 

[Buttface]

You make some valid points there @Jolls
My husband is a solar designer and installer. We have been completely off grid since November 2013. We started off with second hand batteries and they didn't last very long because someone (ahem, me) didn't use the power properly. So we've put in new batteries about 8 years ago, and they're still going well.

If you go off grid, you have to be 100% honest with your designer about your usage. You have to follow their instructions. And for the love of all things,read the manual and don't ring us at 7.00am on fathers day to say all your power's gone and you can't get the generator to charge the batteries! 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

You are absolutely correct when you say you get what you pay for. Higher initial price usually equates to a better system.

Research your components and installers. And check your hot water systems when the new meter goes in.

“Research your components and installers.”
That statement is not easy for the novice, but you have to try your best to get your head around it or you’ll get caught out.

 

[Suzie-Q]

“Research your components and installers.”
That statement is not easy for the novice, but you have to try your best to get your head around it or you’ll get caught out.

Exactly. I have very little knowledge, but I go with advice I was given many, many years ago by lovely Maltese man. "Don't go for the cheapest, they're crap. Don't go for the most expensive, they're a rip-off! Go somewhere in the middle for value for money." So, for panels, inverters, etc, this is the rule. Hubby reckons German-made are the best.

As far as your installers go, look for someone local to you, someone who owns the business and has a good reputation. In other words, avoid the fly-by-night, overseas installers, who only have a 1800 number, and you don't have an actual person to run your job.

 

[Buttface]

Exactly. I have very little knowledge, but I go with advice I was given many, many years ago by lovely Maltese man. "Don't go for the cheapest, they're crap. Don't go for the most expensive, they're a rip-off! Go somewhere in the middle for value for money." So, for panels, inverters, etc, this is the rule. Hubby reckons German-made are the best.

As far as your installers go, look for someone local to you, someone who owns the business and has a good reputation. In other words, avoid the fly-by-night, overseas installers, who only have a 1800 number, and you don't have an actual person to run your job.

Wise words.
German made is usually always good quality. Especially tools.

 

[mikey]

Wise words.
German made is usually always good quality. Especially tools.

Not to mention motorcycles - have several BMWs and used to have an 1959 NSU Supermax (why did I ever sell that?).

 

[bptiger 0]

Recently received a letter telling me my meter was getting switched to a smart meter.
Thought nothing of it - it was changed; and then I received a letter from my provider (who I won't name).
It informed me that I was being switched to another 'plan'. My Anytime - rate was 32c per Kwh. Now they have changed me to a peak rate of 45c per kwh (peak being 7-10am and 3 - 10pm); with off-peak being 30c per kwh. Essentially, they have increased my anytime rate approximately 40 plus percent as no-one only uses electricity between 10am and 3pm.

This put the wind up me so I checked their website to see if there was a cheaper plan or alternative. Lo and behold - my 'plan' is not even on their website.

I rang the provider to question them about the change being done unilaterally and without any notification; and the fact that my plan was not on their website.

Firstly, they claimed my meter was changed because there was a fault. I disputed this and they said, 'Oh, maybe that's wrong.'
Then I asked how they could change me to a rate that's not even listed on their website. Their response was they were charging what the actual provider charges. I challenged them re their not advertising the rate as I believe it is illegal to do so. I also challenged them about the fact they didn't even warn of the change. The call centre person promptly asked if I wanted the call to be escalated. I said I did.
It's been 3 days since and no call. I have also emailed them about this - no response.
Just wondering if anyone has had this issue; and if so, if they were able to reverse it or at least get a better outcome.
Also wondering if anyone knows anything about how long you need to wait for them to respond before going to the Ombudsman.

I would not wait for them , go straight to the ombudsman and lodge a complaint

 

[Jolls]

Exactly. I have very little knowledge, but I go with advice I was given many, many years ago by lovely Maltese man. "Don't go for the cheapest, they're crap. Don't go for the most expensive, they're a rip-off! Go somewhere in the middle for value for money." So, for panels, inverters, etc, this is the rule. Hubby reckons German-made are the best.

As far as your installers go, look for someone local to you, someone who owns the business and has a good reputation. In other words, avoid the fly-by-night, overseas installers, who only have a 1800 number, and you don't have an actual person to run your job.

Cheers thanks for the information. Glad to see you can mainly run it as a normal household. Appreciate the fact that Mr Suzie gets it wholesale. Any chance he would name a ballpark retail price out of interest? No need for detail. Just want to get an idea if it is doable for me.

Definitely the German made (and Australian - Redback) are quality units and most are now coming with 10-12 year warranty on their inverters. Panels can also be a rort - cheap panels are affected by shading, at the top end each individual cell is bypassed if shaded. No need for a top end panel if you are not affected by shadows so you can go for a middel of the road and save some $.

The last off grid I did (6KVA 240V with backup genny) was around 50K with lead acid batteries. If you're doing 24V it can be cheaper - but hard to run a lot of conventional stuff. Good part is that you can wire it yourself because it is not covers by AS3000 and need a sparky (not that I would recommend that approach unless you know WTF you are doing)

Batteries. Lead Acid are great, "cheap" but bulky, and you can only draw them down to 50% otherwise you start to damage the battery and affect the battery life. Lithium you can drag down to 20% no problems. Not that these are huge issues as the battery management system takes care of kicking in the genny if you have 3-4 days of poor weather. As Suzie said the key is being up front about your usage patterns so the system is correctly sized. I built a home for a lawyer and and architect (worst experience ever) and we ized a system for them and they went and installed a steam shower and a geothermal slab heating system. Then wondered why the system wasn't coping - because it was not designed to support the load!

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

 

[mikey]

I would not wait for them , go straight to the ombudsman and lodge a complaint

Called them only to be told it was legal.
My only avenue is to discuss with Red Energy to get them to put me on the old rates or switch provider, which out of principleis highly likely to happen. I don't like being rolled over.
At least I'll have the 'satisfaction' of telling them they are not particularly nice. That's after I ask for breakdowns of different plans, costs etc just to take up as much of their time as possible. I'm not a vindictive person person but 'Do unto others etc' is applicable in certain instances.

 

[mikey]

Definitely the German made (and Australian - Redback) are quality units and most are now coming with 10-12 year warranty on their inverters. Panels can also be a rort - cheap panels are affected by shading, at the top end each individual cell is bypassed if shaded. No need for a top end panel if you are not affected by shadows so you can go for a middel of the road and save some $.

The last off grid I did (6KVA 240V with backup genny) was around 50K with lead acid batteries. If you're doing 24V it can be cheaper - but hard to run a lot of conventional stuff. Good part is that you can wire it yourself because it is not covers by AS3000 and need a sparky (not that I would recommend that approach unless you know WTF you are doing)

Batteries. Lead Acid are great, "cheap" but bulky, and you can only draw them down to 50% otherwise you start to damage the battery and affect the battery life. Lithium you can drag down to 20% no problems. Not that these are huge issues as the battery management system takes care of kicking in the genny if you have 3-4 days of poor weather. As Suzie said the key is being up front about your usage patterns so the system is correctly sized. I built a home for a lawyer and and architect (worst experience ever) and we ized a system for them and they went and installed a steam shower and a geothermal slab heating system. Then wondered why the system wasn't coping - because it was not designed to support the load!

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Thanks for the input.Must say I wasn't expecting that much but having said that will still at least look into it.

 

[mikey]

Hhhm. Finally got to talk with a Red Energy supervisor after 10 business days.
No joy re rates but they've given me some credit for the inconvenience.
One thing they did mention, which I have absolutely no understanding of, is to look into a rate called Residential Demand.
Does anyone know:
- anything about it
- whether it can be beneficial re bill