Folkes deserves more credit for where we are than Sheens

T

TigersFan4Life

New member
The Tigers will be at worst sitting in 4th place after tonight's Broncos-Roosters game. I think if we'd all been asked the question "would we be happy with this?" before the season started we'd have given a resounding yes!

However, to be perfectly honest we have been fortunate in a number of games. Our for and against is currently zero which means that in our 11 wins the margin of victory has been equal to what it is in our seven losses, meaning we are losing by much bigger average margins than what we are winning by. This is a real reversal of what's happened in previous seasons.

Some will look at the season we've had as proof that Sheens is still a good coach. However, when you look deeper what the team has done is managed to win despite the fact that he is the coach. As has been the case in previous seasons some of his team selections have been diabolical. In particular, his infatuation with Fitzhenry is inexplicable. So it's really possible that if he had been picking better lineups we might have won two or three more games this season.

So IMO the man who deserves most of the credit for where we are is our conditioning coach Steve Folkes. He has instilled some much needed toughness into the team, which has led to them winning a number of close games, games that during the last three years have cost them a finals spot.
 
@TigersFan4Life said:
The Tigers will be at worst sitting in 4th place after tonight's Broncos-Roosters game. I think if we'd all been asked the question "would we be happy with this?" before the season started we'd have given a resounding yes!

However, to be perfectly honest we have been fortunate in a number of games. Our for and against is currently zero which means that in our 11 wins the margin of victory has been equal to what it is in our seven losses, meaning we are losing by much bigger average margins than what we are winning by. This is a real reversal of what's happened in previous seasons.

Some will look at the season we've had as proof that Sheens is still a good coach. However, when you look deeper what the team has done is managed to win despite the fact that he is the coach. As has been the case in previous seasons some of his team selections have been diabolical. In particular, his infatuation with Fitzhenry is inexplicable. So it's really possible that if he had been picking better lineups we might have won two or three more games this season.

So IMO the man who deserves most of the credit for where we are is our conditioning coach Steve Folkes. He has instilled some much needed toughness into the team, which has led to them winning a number of close games, games that during the last three years have cost them a finals spot.
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I've been saying this all year. I think folkes has been the buy of the year for us
 
I think this is an unfair statement, and one that is impossible to prove.

Both of them deserve due credit for getting the Tigers to where they are at the moment.

There is going to be plenty of argument that Sheens has lost his marbles re team selections, and that is fair enough because it is something I agree with. However Sheens is a skilled tactician and he is responsible for a lot of the plays that we score points off. He has brought the best out of numerous players in my opinion, especially Lawrence, Heighno and in more recent times Bryce Gibbs.

I would not give Folkes a perfect report card either, on Sunday we looked terribly flat for a large portion of the game. The Eagles ran the boys ragged, and most the side were blowing pretty hard. This to me says they need to lift fitness levels further, which is the responsibility of Folkes.

To say Folkes has contributed more is rubbish. He has been a great buy, and I definitely agree he has had a positive effect. But Sheens still calls the shots and as such deserves a certain level of praise.
 
This thread/post proves that the pointless Sheens bashing has hit critical mass.

You seriously think that the guy responsible for our fitness conditioning for less than one season is more responsible than the guy that has sole control for the last 7 years of recruitment, retention, sacking players, skills development, tactics, set plays, team selections and on and on…?

If we were coming 10th....Sheens would be responsible. We are coming third...and Sheens is responsible. BTW who do you think would have been responsible for Steve Folkes coming on board.

I think that criticism of his selection of Fitzhenry and now Skando is valid, but just as many here have been bleating in previous seasons that Sheens can ONLY BE JUDGED ON THE RESULTS, well he should be judged on his results.
 
Gee Glenn it's easy to understand….

Win...Folkes and it's the conditioning
Loose...Sheens...team selections.....

Simple....
 
@Balmain Tiger said:
but you know that once we start winning again no one will boo sheens
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Not true. There are always a few idiots who boo Sheens despite the Tigers winning games.
 
@TigersFan4Life said:
However, to be perfectly honest we have been fortunate in a number of games.
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In previous seasons, when we have been unlucky and lost a handful of games by close margins, did you and the other Sheens bashers say "oh well, its OK we'll let Sheens off because we were unlucky?".

Since mid 05 we have lamented that our team could not grind it out and win close matches, this year we have and it _MAY_ be the difference of getting into the semis. But those on the bandwagon now say we have been lucky? I say we have to give the team (and by extension Sheens) the credit fo r doing what we have always wanted them to do.
 
@Geo. said:
Gee Glenn it's easy to understand….

Win...Folkes and it's the conditioning
Loose...Sheens...team selections.....

Simple....
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I can see it clearly unfortunately ….

Although also if we win we need to factor in luck now as well. Apparently we have been _lucky_ 7 out of our last 9 matches. Apparently Steve Folkes is the head coach in charge of luck. He must have learned that from a West Indian sharman. It is also probably the cause of the demise of West Indian cricket since he left as well.
 
@Centaur said:
I think this is an unfair statement, and one that is impossible to prove.
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You are 100% correct. All the talk about how Folkes has improved our situation is in my opinion complete and utter trollop. We did not look fit against Manly and I don't think we have looked any fitter this year.

Sheens deserves most of the credit after the players. Yes he consistently amazes me with his selections however he is the one that coaches the team. It is not Folkes.
 
it has to be folkes fitness regime…..because we are still making the same dumb mistakes week in week out but atleast our fitness is there to keep us in the game to mount comebacks or stay in touch.....
 
@ron burgandy said:
it has to be folkes fitness regime…..because we are still making the same dumb mistakes week in week out but atleast our fitness is there to keep us in the game to mount comebacks or stay in touch.....
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Oh ok Ron, by your brilliant logic it has to be Folkes fitness. Couldnt have anything to do with any improved defence keeping us in games? Before this week we were 4th best defence in the comp.

No it would have to be our fitness.
 
@Glennb said:
@ron burgandy said:
it has to be folkes fitness regime…..because we are still making the same dumb mistakes week in week out but atleast our fitness is there to keep us in the game to mount comebacks or stay in touch.....

Oh ok Ron, by your brilliant logic it has to be Folkes fitness. Couldnt have anything to do with any improved defence keeping us in games? Before this week we were 4th best defence in the comp.

No it would have to be our fitness.
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our fitness allows us to defend so long and not concede points then have the ability to come down field and score points…unfortunatley yesterdays the boys realised they had won 7 from 8 and didnt put in the effort.....

are you seriously saying that fitness has nothing to do with this?
 
Of course fitness has a lot to do with EVERY aspect of rugby league, and all teams are fit to varying degrees. By your ridiculous logic though we were fitter in 05 than we are now under Folkes.

Your last post brilliantly illustrates the stupid and baseless nature of this ridiculous argument. Sheens coaching of skills, defensive skills, defensive patterns, tactics, player retention/recruitment/release, team selections has NOTHING to do with our current success, it is mostly because of our fitness coach who has been here for 9 months….......UM...Um.....EXCEPT....um when we get run over in the second half by a team that has the worst second half stats in the NRL, then its not the fitness guy its the players.

To be blunt, this new twist in the anti sheens argument smacks of rabid desperation by a vocal minority who can see their stupid petty agenda being derailed by the teams success.

At the start of the year it was "If this team doesnt make the 8 Sheens is a failure and he has to go"....now you guys are getting desperate so its "if this team makes the 8 then it was because of the fitness coach and therefore Sheens has got to go"

Pointless and pathetic
 
Seriously?

Steve Folkes is the reason we are 4th?

If the Tigers miss the 8 from here, is that Folkes or Sheens' fault?

Sure- Tim Sheens makes some decisions we don't agree on, some headscratchers for certain- but every player at the club has his thumbprint on them- from the guys we love to hate- Fitzy, Lui etc, to the guys we can't believe aren't playing for Australia- Fifita, reserve grade halfbacks etc.

Folkes has had half a season's worth of impact on them. Are they fitter- probably. But I can't recall watching the Tigers lose because they were not fit enough.

I may be remembering this wrong- but didn't Shifty & Royce swap roles in the preseason- Sheens takes over defence & Royce attack? Because I remember defence costing the Tigers in season's past. But not so much this season.

Guess that's Folkes too though.

Thank Christ for posters like Gleenb.
 
I don't buy into the "Folkes is responsible for out ladder position" nonsense.

If Tim Sheens is responsible for our ladder position when it is 9 or lower, he's also responsible for our ladder position when it's 8 or higher.

If we make the 8, I'm happy for him to fulfil his current contract.
 
Royce has not been defensive coach for (I think) 18 months. Sheens is responsible for defence…..unless of course it is good....then its Steve Folkes
 
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