God?

[AmericanHistoryX]

Why didnt you say that in the first place? I hear you brother

 

[stryker]

I have very definite views on what and who Jesus was. I am also as sure that some of his thoughts and phrases were captured by those around him. I dont think that they were the words of god but have no doubt that he thought that they were.

Now imagine that he said these things with such conviction that those around him truly believed he was talking the truth. They wrote down some of his sayings. However they didnt always have materials with them at the time of his lectures to capture his musings word for word. This resulted in them paraphrasing his sayings. These paraphrasings were then added to and paraphrased upon again and again. That is not such a far fetched tale.

I prefer to think that he may have been a guy who said that every person is equal…rather than believe that he walked on water. I prefer to think that he said the collection of wealth whilst your countrymen starve is wrong... rather than he turned a couple of loaves of bread and a few fish into a banquet that fed hundreds. That he said love thy neighbour...rather than he turned water into wine...and so on.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

if benji can walk on water on water than I'm sure Jesus could. good luck Stryker - i'll stick to Einstein and his cronies. You make some goints points though - however you never came back from death and talked about it. "ye of little faith"

 

[alien]

if benji can walk on water on water than I'm sure Jesus could. good luck Stryker - i'll stick to Einstein and his cronies. You make some goints points though - however you never came back from death and talked about it. "ye of little faith"

Did Einstein really say that Jesus was/is god, or did he just say that god exists?

 

[Tigerdave]

To all of the non believers Can you explain one thing to me . Where did everything come from ??? Even if the Big Bang Theory is true, matter and energy has to come from somewhere . If someone can explain that to me i could possibly become a non believer but everthing has to come from somewhere

Well from what I understand matter, energy etc was all formed via the Big Bang. How did the Big Bang form? Well Stephen Hawkings has a show on SBS, at 8:30pm tonight in fact where he's been discussing it all.

Obviously for believers who ask this question they say since it all had to come from somewhere, they attribute this somewhere to God or whatever deity they choose to believe. The response to that is, if matter etc all had to come from somewhere and you say God, well then, where did God come from?

Chicken and the egg Tiger Dave

yes no one can say either way, at the moment, but God is being used as a God of gaps here, is it a bad thing? I suppose not, however God has been slotted into gaps of human knowledge for the last few thousand years and before that Zeus was the one who was throwing lightning bolts and Poseidon was the one causing tidal waves. Just because we don't know how something works or how something came to be doesn't mean we won't know eventually.

 

[Tigerdave]

Can someone just answer the simple original question i posed. Where is the evidence for god?? While it may make people feel all warm and gooey on the inside when they see a sunset or a baby smile or think to themselves 'its just all too big, something has to be behind it' it really doesnt have any bearing on an arguement for the existence of god.

As a non-believer its not my burdon of proof to show god doesn't exist. Im not making that claim. Im saying i dont believe your claim. So where is the proof? Surely if there was even just one peice of evidence everyone (mostly) would believe.

I'd like to hear from someone that is religious to answer this question and not someone thats agnostic like 70% of these replies.

Well prove that he/she/it doesn't exist. Alt his talk about proving whether a god exists. It's just as easy to say prove to me that he doesn't. No one can do that.

It's historical fact that there was a man who was named Jesus, there was even a man named Mohammad, that lived on this world and did amazing things. The bible is after all an historical Book. The bible is written text, just like the Koran, just like egyptian hieroglyphics. That's how things were document about the people who lived then and what was going on.

Who cares whether there is a god or not. I don't get why people need to be proven there is something that created it all, the real point of religion is how to treat one another, live a just life and guide you in times of need. If people say they don't have a religion because they don't believe in god, i think are missing the point of religion entirely.IMO.

It doesn't matter which religion you believe in, but you have to believe in something.

Actually the onus is on the person making the positive claim to provide the evidence.

It's not historical fact that there was a man named Jesus, the bible is not an historical book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho#Historicity

 

[Tigerdave]

So you think Xmas day is a make believe day - well which fool made this day up.

It's a pagan holiday celebrating the Winter Solstice, the gift giving is from the Roman Saturnalia celebration which happened at that time, xmas trees came from the German Pagans from memory

 

[Tigerdave]

other scientists that believed in God - Nicholas Copernicus, Francis Bacon, Jahannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei, Rene Descartes - Isaac Newton, Micheal Faraday - or are these people make believe too - or should i believe you people on this forum - im confused - what now! please people stick to wests tigers

Argument from Authority….I could also easily say that lots (the majority) of scientists don't believe in a deity of any variety.

Einstein was agnostic, he however, did not believe in a personal god.

 

[Adman]

So, how does Moltzen fit into all this?

Haha. :sign:

 

[Swordy]

Does religion have a salary cap that forces some good local christians who were born and bred in the system to put themselves out there to play with the muslims or the buddhists?

Personally, I am a member of the Judean Peoples Front, which of course is different to the Peoples Front of Judeah.

 

[happy_tiger]

Does religion have a salary cap that forces some good local christians who were born and bred in the system to put themselves out there to play with the muslims or the buddhists?

Personally, I am a member of the Judean Peoples Front, which of course is different to the Peoples Front of Judeah.

How about the Popular People Front of Judeah SPLITTER

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

A lot of ignorance in this thread me thinks…

Straight away the majority of posts here start talking about a catholic god. The thread asks do you believe in a god..

Its a tricky subjefct, Eienstein refused to believe some of his own theories because they chanllenge the concept of his god.

There is no right or wrong here either. Even the big bang theory is flawed when you go right back to the start. The universe is looks the same in every direction, if the big bang happened, the universe should be a mess..m which it isn't.

Basically, the big bang theory is still unproven! It is not FACT and holds as much truth as the ideology of a god... I myself side with a lot of what is apart of string theory.

Basically... No right or wrong! Nothing is fact, so let's not be ignorant to others beliefs. Also there is no reason why the idea of a god cannot be apart of most ideologies...

 

[jezz]

A lot of ignorance in this thread me thinks…

Straight away the majority of posts here start talking about a catholic god. The thread asks do you believe in a god..

Its a tricky subjefct, Eienstein refused to believe some of his own theories because they chanllenge the concept of his god.

There is no right or wrong here either. Even the big bang theory is flawed when you go right back to the start. The universe is looks the same in every direction, if the big bang happened, the universe should be a mess..m which it isn't.

Basically, the big bang theory is still unproven! It is not FACT and holds as much truth as the ideology of a god... I myself side with a lot of what is apart of string theory.

Basically... No right or wrong! Nothing is fact, so let's not be ignorant to others beliefs. Also there is no reason why the idea of a god cannot be apart of most ideologies...

I Couldn't have said it better (well anywhere near as good actually)!
I have typed up many responses the last few days, only to proof read it then delete it.
I accept that people have their own thoughts and respect those beliefs, as does one of my best mates who is a youth minister. He acknowledges we are not religious and hardly ever mentions god or the bible infront of us, and in return we try not to be blasphemous infront of him. Th fact we have a mutual understanding shows we can succeed in life together, and that there is no need to fight or argue about what is right or wrong, fact or fiction. My only problem is when someone tries to force their beliefs onto others, whether that be about religion or not.

In summary, the world would be better if,
The religious who believe didn't try to convert/constantly discuss/try to vilify the none religious.
The non religious didn't ridicule people for following a religion, regardless of proof of existance of a god or not.
This planet has been around for at least 230 million years (dinosaur ageing of bones) and to try and claim one way or another how it was formed, well impossible.

 

[Icon]

I think there has to be something that created existence. But if anyone has seen the doco, zeitgeist, it raises some really interesting facts of how the bible was seemigly derived from the ancient sun worshiping religions.

I agree with most, would love just a bit of evidence that the bible is something to be taken seriously.

"I think there has to be something that created existence"

Logical fallacy - then what created the something that created existence? if creation is so improbable that there must be a disigner, how much more improbable is the designer.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

A lot of ignorance in this thread me thinks…

Straight away the majority of posts here start talking about a catholic god. The thread asks do you believe in a god..

Its a tricky subjefct, Eienstein refused to believe some of his own theories because they chanllenge the concept of his god.

There is no right or wrong here either. Even the big bang theory is flawed when you go right back to the start. The universe is looks the same in every direction, if the big bang happened, the universe should be a mess..m which it isn't.

Basically, the big bang theory is still unproven! It is not FACT and holds as much truth as the ideology of a god... I myself side with a lot of what is apart of string theory.

Basically... No right or wrong! Nothing is fact, so let's not be ignorant to others beliefs. Also there is no reason why the idea of a god cannot be apart of most ideologies...

I Couldn't have said it better (well anywhere near as good actually)!
I have typed up many responses the last few days, only to proof read it then delete it.
I accept that people have their own thoughts and respect those beliefs, as does one of my best mates who is a youth minister. He acknowledges we are not religious and hardly ever mentions god or the bible infront of us, and in return we try not to be blasphemous infront of him. Th fact we have a mutual understanding shows we can succeed in life together, and that there is no need to fight or argue about what is right or wrong, fact or fiction. My only problem is when someone tries to force their beliefs onto others, whether that be about religion or not.

In summary, the world would be better if,
The religious who believe didn't try to convert/constantly discuss/try to vilify the none religious.
The non religious didn't ridicule people for following a religion, regardless of proof of existance of a god or not.
**This planet has been around for at least 230 million years (dinosaur ageing of bones) and to try and claim one way or another how it was formed, well impossible**.

I might be going off on a tangent here but what many don't realise (and I'm not inferring that anyone on this forum is amongst that group,) that time is actually a human concept and therefore proving anything (in respect to creation of the universe,) by using that concept is futile? The human mind cannot grasp the idea of "infinite," most probably due to our own mortality and our need to be able to collate events in a logical manner (as we usually do, by means of measurement.)

Everything around us does not last, and it ingrained into our pysche that everything has to have a start and an end. The concept of the "infinite" is not conducive to that. That's why the Big Bang Theory is hard for alot of people to swallow, and the concept that an ominous entity is the source of creation gives is easily acceptable, because that gives the human mind a reference point which is easier to comprehend. It is in keeping with the human psyche that there is always a beginning and an end and therefore a comforting mindset.

PS: I'm thoroughly enjoying some of the posts here. Very surprised that a few people seem to be proponents of the "Intelligent Design" theory.

 

[tiger_sean]

there were witnesses. how do like dem apples?

12 I think at least

:roll where do I start here!!!!!

If someone had you brainwashed into thinking they were the messiah - the very son of GOD and that if you told his story you would be rewarded by living an eternity in paradise, do you not think that there would be some exageration going on?

These so called "gospels" are not factual accounts. They are stories that have been handed down over hundreds of years, each time having a little added to them until they were finally published. They dont say that they were written by Mathew, Mark, Luke, John etc…. they say they are ACCORDING to them. In other words they are loosely based on what they wrote.

It blows my mind that people believe they are fatual accounts.

If these stories aren't factual accounts then why has there no-one around the time these gospels were written who said 'I was there and Jesus didn't do any of those things'. Surely if it was so wrong and fictional someone would have spoken up?

Also you can't just take some of what Jesus did and say yeah he had some good teachings. You either believe the whole Bible is made up therefore not true or you believe Jesus lived and did all of those things and was the son of god. You can't take out the bits you like and then deny the other bits.

 

[Kul]

probably because the earlier gospel was written about 60 years after the fact…

It's the equivalent of you writing a book about something that happened in the 1950's whilst living in an occupied arid territory where your religion is forced underground by the most efficient military machine in history. Somehow i doubt that there were scribes following every move...

I don't have any issues with the idea that there was a bloke and a movement that formed around 30 AD in Judea. In fact the fact that the cult was so successful that it flourished into what it is today in such a short period of time suggests that there indeed was a dude and a few followers preaching to the masses at that time. It would be sad if it wasn't true

 

[alien]

Also you can't just take some of what Jesus did and say yeah he had some good teachings. You either believe the whole Bible is made up therefore not true or you believe Jesus lived and did all of those things and was the son of god. You can't take out the bits you like and then deny the other bits.

yes you can actually

 

[tiger_sean]

Also you can't just take some of what Jesus did and say yeah he had some good teachings. You either believe the whole Bible is made up therefore not true or you believe Jesus lived and did all of those things and was the son of god. You can't take out the bits you like and then deny the other bits.

yes you can actually

Sure you can if you want

 

[alien]

I might be going off on a tangent here but what many don't realise (and I'm not inferring that anyone on this forum is amongst that group,) that time is actually a human concept and therefore proving anything (in respect to creation of the universe,) by using that concept is futile? The human mind cannot grasp the idea of "infinite," most probably due to our own mortality and our need to be able to collate events in a logical manner (as we usually do, by means of measurement.)

Everything around us does not last, and it ingrained into our pysche that everything has to have a start and an end. The concept of the "infinite" is not conducive to that. That's why the Big Bang Theory is hard for alot of people to swallow, and the concept that an ominous entity is the source of creation gives is easily acceptable, because that gives the human mind a reference point which is easier to comprehend. It is in keeping with the human psyche that there is always a beginning and an end and therefore a comforting mindset.

PS: I'm thoroughly enjoying some of the posts here. Very surprised that a few people seem to be proponents of the "Intelligent Design" theory.

maybe people exist in a dimension where time exists. maybe time doesnt exist in some higher dimensions