Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[tig_prmz]

I want to know who the Madge haters want as coach?

Haven't we longed for a coach who makes players accountable, and will not accept mediocre performances no matter what your name or status in the game is?

He hasn't been able to do that more recently because 1, we don't have the players and 2 there's too much pressure to send out Rowdy and Benji on the field.

Madge is not the issue, the cattle is. We are a weak club, and those who complain can see themselves out.

Side note, irks me that Saint Ivan doesn't get hammered enough in the media for what he did at this club in terms of the signings he made.

I can't wait until one journo asks him about Packer, Matulino, Mbye and Reynolds.

 

[TrueTiger]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

I don't think that is the case..even Taylor identified that Wests Tigers are soft mentally who are terrible defensively ..

We have heard the same from following coaches..so far all have failed to change it for any period of time despite the best effort and talk..

But he’s the only one I see as actually do something constructive. Plenty talked it up but then kept selecting the usual suspects. Taylor wasted all his time trying to get rid of one of the better players. Cleary went for the quick fix and blew our future cap on poor buys. None of them did a proper managed clean out.

If you look at it from the time when Sheens was here ,he had them playing fast attacking football...the old score more points than them and we win scenario...

Although we have had other coaches since try and change the style of play,Madge is the only one that has staunchly stated the change in culture first and foremost and its no wonder he is a coach who builds gameplans on defensive structures....this team and club at the moment cant handle the change implemented and thats why we see the team ""regressing ""so to speak...I put it down to adapting which takes longer than expected sometimes..

This is why you see Benji being the attacking player he is ...its what he was taught and specialised in it....thats why his defense is so poor...

The reality is Benji's attacking game is probably the best for a half in the NRL. His defence is not the strongest but could be accommodated in a better defensive team.

In a team already accommodating other defensive liabilities on the right, it is hard to hide all of them as Bellamy exposed. I'd rather move the others on and keep Benji. I loved those passes to Kepaoa.

I respect your devotion to Benji but i feel you are blind to his many faults.I totally disagree about
"Benji"s attacking game is probably the best for a half in the NRL".His attack is littered with poor options with no game management whatsoever.His defence is the worst in any position in the NRL imo.At this stage no other club in the NRL wants him including every team that is finishing behind us and no firm offers from overseas.

He was a great player and we should give him his last game for us and hope he goes out as a winner and has a decent game along with another in Chris Lawrence.I would love to belt the slugs on their own dungheap and put their season in turmoil

I respect your opinion. This is an emotive subject but I hope Benji gets a great farewell. I am going to miss him.

I hope Benj does get a great farewell and its ok to miss a player of Benjis quality,he has given rugby league and the WTs so much over the years....I wouldnt like him to play on and be known as a has been,he should go out the CHAMPION he truely is in football and family ...

 

[avocadoontoast]

Why are you a hater if you question Maguire .. the not his team is getting old ... there will be 26 of the 30 man squad signed re signed or extended by him in 2021 that extends to 29 of 30 in 2022 should he get an extension..it’s the head coaches job to get the best from those players..thankfully he hasn’t hid behind that in fact the opposite he believes in this mob even if us as fans do not..

As for replacing him who knows really until you did.

Personally I’ve always thought Geoff Toovey was a decent coach

Hard to disagree with any of that.

 

[tigeress]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

It’s a nice thought but tearing up $1.6M is not easy. The contract is between two parties, it’s much easier to have bravado and say than to actually execute. We have to be patient and accept that not much will change in 2021, 2022 is a different story.

Nice to know what the plan actually is but everything around the back end of the season is dealing with bush fires.

It’s a nothing statement last night by Madge about players no longer with club next season unless you elaborate or had discussions already considering the Benji debacle.

It just feeds media a story to write about without being factual and does not add to team culture.

Personally all it does is deflect the performance of the teams effort last night and the coach!!!

Until Packer & Reynolds leave, not much will change. Hopefully we get JAC and Tamou turns out to be a great buy. Other than that that’s probably all that will happen in 2021, apart from signing on a few players on minimal contracts.

Tend to agree another year of missing finals as other teams around us get better?

Reynolds, Packer, Mybe lose those 3 and the salary situation will ease yeah 2022.

Well Tamou is the only "new" player we have atm.
I am just hoping that he doesn't come here for a "rest" like a lot of these other blokes...It's absolutely disgusting how we buy players and they come here and do nothing...that's what I'm sick of about this club, I don't care whose fault or what coach was here at the time, don't these blokes have a conscience.

That's what upsets me most about the club, how that could happen in the first place, that's why I'm a little concerned about Tamou, as he is coming towards the end of his career, as some of these ones I have just spoken about, have as well, so they are almost ready to retire, and would be happy to not put in the hard yards and still get paid.:angry: and the club is asking us to renew out membership, I may give it a miss this year and see what happens:angry:

 

[crazycat]

I’d say a whole preseason of a team engineered to work together I would think we will have a much more coherent defensive unit.
It’s obvious that this year we had forces of mass pulling in all different directions. But if you look closely enough you can see improvement and commitment from players that are on board for the long haul.
I’m not sure that is limited to just the playing group.
Trent Barrett has been highly credited for his influence on Penrith this year but his not the head coach, so what is Ivan doing to ‘coach’ the team? A head coach is the overseer, but his not always the tactical genius.

It would be great to see the Panthers regress next year
It would say alot about Ivans ability as a coach
Especially if Barrett does well at the dogs

I reckon Barrett will be the biggest Fizzer at the dogs. Look at how Manly performs under Hazlier and Toovey. Ok sure they are out of the 8 with the injuries they have had this year but they clearly are performing pretty well.

 

[izotope]

Was just thinking on this last night, if we are basing madge's results on ladder position this year.
Have to consider we had the toughest draw in the league.
If the other 6 games went ahead we might be playing some of the duds again and catch that elusive 9th position.

 

[Moh]

I don’t think it is a question of replacing him, but it is reasonable to expect a degree of accountability on his part?

Yup, there's nothing wrong with criticizing his decisions and asking questions of him. I am strongly against driving him out/the thought another coach can fix our mess though.

Pressure? from who, sponsors, the club? It is a fact of life, though, in many sports where commercial interests prevail.

Fans, sponsors and people within the club - yes. I know I for one want to see them off on the field.

OK, the cattle is the problem, so how many of them have actually improved since last year?

Well if we're going to put everything on the coach when it's going bad then - Harry Grant has shown he is a superstar under Madge. Improvers are Aloiai, Lucy (though he has dipped, he's a much better player than he was at the Dragons), Nofa, Eiso, ET, Walters, McIntyre and Liddle has been playing well. Of course some players have gone backwards, but that doesn't always fall back to the coach.

 

[Moh]

Why are you a hater if you question Maguire .. the not his team is getting old ... there will be 26 of the 30 man squad signed re signed or extended by him in 2021 that extends to 29 of 30 in 2022 should he get an extension..it’s the head coaches job to get the best from those players..thankfully he hasn’t hid behind that in fact the opposite he believes in this mob even if us as fans do not..

As for replacing him who knows really until you did.

Personally I’ve always thought Geoff Toovey was a decent coach

Lets stick with a coach for a decent amount of time, it sucks to hear it but it's just the reality of our position - he needs 2-3 years before we can judge. He's already holding players accountable, and we'll soon lose these ridiculous contracts and the poison that has come with it.

 

[Cairnstigers]

A coach doesn't miss tackles
Drop balls
Give away 6 agains
Give away penalties
Kick the ball dead
Throw forward passes
Give up the chase
Or do crusher tackles
That is all on the players themselves

 

[jirskyr]

I don’t know what you mean by that

What I mean is Matto was leaving, right? He asked for a release. You can hold onto him as a bargaining chip or trade or compensation, but that's not actually what's happening, because the minute he hits 01/Nov/19 you have to start paying him his 2020 salary. By the time preseason has finished you have paid him 4 months salary, i.e. 33% of his wage, and he hasn't played a single game.

Let's say Matto was on $600K, then you've paid him $200K to basically train even when you know he won't play.

That $200K you can save and put elsewhere. That's the compensation, not having to pay Matterson whilst he collects your dollar turning up to training.

And no, Luciano signed with Tigers 1 month (Nov 30) after Matto was released (Oct 31).

I totally disagree re Luciano and Matterson, I think Matterson's output 2020 is well below what he did for Tigers in 2019 where he was on the cusp of origin selection. Luciano is twice the player he was at Dragons, our player of the year 2020 by some distance.

 

[rihannafan1]

I want to know who the Madge haters want as coach?

Haven't we longed for a coach who makes players accountable, and will not accept mediocre performances no matter what your name or status in the game is?

He hasn't been able to do that more recently because 1, we don't have the players and 2 there's too much pressure to send out Rowdy and Benji on the field.

Madge is not the issue, the cattle is. We are a weak club, and those who complain can see themselves out.

Side note, irks me that Saint Ivan doesn't get hammered enough in the media for what he did at this club in terms of the signings he made.

I know what you mean about someone other than Madge. We have as good a coach as you're going to find on the market.

But excusing him by saying that he doesn't have the players, amongst other things, is a bit lenient. When exactly do you have the players?

Anyway, we'll see where the team is in another two years. Then we'll all be able to judge a bit better.

 

[Tigerdave]

we don't have the cattle, we have a centre playing fullback and we have no halves.............not much he can do



How about he just gets us to compete, like Holbrook has done at titans and Payten with the warriors with a side that as players coming and going every week


we were competing and then the wheels fell off after the Bronco's game................as for the Titans a -147 for and against doesn't suggest they have been competing very well, but yes the Warriors went up a gear with Payten, however that was a change of coach which clearly helped..............it's never helped us in the past

Are the titans now above us ? But there not competing better

You're just raising the goal posts, you stated "How about he just gets us to compete"

Their for and against certainly is telling and 1 more win than us? Seriously?

 

[Snake]

I have no problem with Madge being here next season .. my only concern is a contract extension before some solid improvements that’s not much to ask ...mid season good improvements then an extension!

 

[Tigerdave]

4 coaches in 8 years, seriously people....

 

[Goanna57]

we don't have the cattle, we have a centre playing fullback and we have no halves.............not much he can do



How about he just gets us to compete, like Holbrook has done at titans and Payten with the warriors with a side that as players coming and going every week


we were competing and then the wheels fell off after the Bronco's game................as for the Titans a -147 for and against doesn't suggest they have been competing very well, but yes the Warriors went up a gear with Payten, however that was a change of coach which clearly helped..............it's never helped us in the past

Are the titans now above us ? But there not competing better

You're just raising the goal posts, you stated "How about he just gets us to compete"

Their for and against certainly is telling and 1 more win than us? Seriously?

Seriously what more wins in the win lose column no matter what the for and against is still puts you in front but you already know that.The point I was trying to make and maybe I didn’t explain myself correctly is that over the course of the season titans have showed steady improvement unlike us

 

[hobbo1]

4 coaches in 8 years, seriously people....

Other teams have had as many if not more....
Just saying...

 

[Tiger_heart]

A coach doesn't miss tackles
Drop balls
Give away 6 agains
Give away penalties
Kick the ball dead
Throw forward passes
Give up the chase
Or do crusher tackles
That is all on the players themselves

Definition of coach " Sports coaches assist athletes in *developing to their full potential*. They *are responsible* for training athletes in a sport by analyzing their performances, *instructing in relevant skills* and by *providing encouragement*. "
Thus, the disconnect - not a Madge hater, to be clear, nor calling for his head, merely transparency.

 

[Harvey]

4 coaches in 8 years, seriously people....

We pulled the trigger too early on Potter & JT. They had us on the right path.

People keep mentioning that Madge inherited Ivan's overpriced duds and unbalanced roster. Potter inherited the Sheens/Humphreys backended contract disaster & JT could not sign anyone other than reserve graders and has beens due to the cap space.

All these coaches have been in a similar predicament and all have produced similar results. I am not sure there is any valid argument to suggest that one is better than the others.

 

[Cairnstigers]

A coach doesn't miss tackles
Drop balls
Give away 6 agains
Give away penalties
Kick the ball dead
Throw forward passes
Give up the chase
Or do crusher tackles
That is all on the players themselves


Definition of coach " Sports coaches assist athletes in *developing to their full potential*. They *are responsible* for training athletes in a sport by analyzing their performances, *instructing in relevant skills* and by *providing encouragement*. "
Thus, the disconnect - not a Madge hater, to be clear, nor calling for his head, merely transparency.

Lazy
A person is being lazy if he is able to carry out some activity that he ought to carry out, but is disinclined to do so because of the effort involved. Instead, he carries out the activity perfunctorily; or engages in some other, less strenuous or less boring activity; or remains idle

There is no doubt that some players dont like madges style
They should move on because we don't need them
If Madge can get Nofoaluma to have his best year
Harry Grant has had a great year and he was relatively in experienced in the nrl
Lucy has had his best year (came from no where)
Doueihi has probably had his best year in the Nrl
Aloiai has had his best year
Musgrove injured but has still played well when able

So if Madge can get these guys to play good footy
What the hell is wrong with the rest of the lazy buggers in our team
Players like Packer, Mbye, Reynolds and McQueen should have a good look at themselves
They should ask themselves this ?
If these other guys can improve their football this year why can't I
They need to Take ownership of the way they play and the results they have achieved

Benji's woeful tackling
Brooks near non existent kicking game
Our forwards lack of penetration
These areas needs fixing

How does that old saying go
"You can leed a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it"

Some of our guys just needed to put in more effort
The 1%ers

 

[Cairnstigers]

4 coaches in 8 years, seriously people....

We pulled the trigger too early on Potter & JT. They had us on the right path.

People keep mentioning that Madge inherited Ivan's overpriced duds and unbalanced roster. Potter inherited the Sheens/Humphreys backended contract disaster & JT could not sign anyone other than reserve graders and has beens due to the cap space.

All these coaches have been in a similar predicament and all have produced similar results. I am not sure there is any valid argument to suggest that one is better than the others.

JT chose Jordan Rankin over Josh Addo-Carr
Enough said