I think the issue is Sheens

[Bigscreentv]

I think you are blaming Madge for Brooks failure when he has been the same now as he has been for the last 8/9 years at least...How you can honestly say he has coached the skill out of Klemmer,Bateman,Api,Paps,Tupou and Stains when they werent even here before he was sacked is a ridiculous statement and just shows how much distain people had for Madge..He didnt work out for us,but his desire to help the club was always there...
Sheens has far better players,more money and some youth coming through the pathways that Madge got going again...

I didn't say that Madge was the only reason we weren't successful. Brooks (and others) obviously had poor form, but how long can any player be in a team that's not winning, stay positive and perform?

My issue with Madge was that he was building a team that didn't play a style that would be successful in the current game - for the most part his recruitment was poor and he wasn't the right type of coach to develop a team. I'm not saying he was a bad coach; I'm saying he had his methods and they weren't right to get the Tigers out of the hole they are in.

Anyways, time will tell but I think they will turn it around, if given the time.

 

[Bigscreentv]

But it WAS a long time ago, 18 years, then 29, 32, and 34 years ago. The game has changed so much. I think the complete lack of success across multiple clubs here and overseas since then is very relevant

Man, it's rugby league, they're not splitting the atom. I'm sure Benji, Robbie & David Furner have input in to that too.
A huge part of success is belief, and belief impacts attitude...the Tigers lack belief, and you would too if you hadn't had success in a long-time. The problem is that a key orchestrator (Brooks) has been here for all the negative and needs to wash it off. If he left it would probably solve the issue, but I'd also love to see him turn it around at the Tigers. He might just do that and go down as the player that stayed during the tough times to help bring the success.

If the Tigers score first in a game they will win it. IMO that will be the turning point. Having consecutive attacking sets without scoring, then conceding is feeding in to the belief issue. This is why Sheens focuses on the positives to take out of a game to keep them positive.

 

[earl]

he problem is that a key orchestrator (Brooks) has been here for all the negative and needs to wash it off. If he left it would probably solve the issue, but I'd also love to see him turn it around at the Tigers. He might just do that and go down as the player that stayed during the tough times to help bring the success.

If he stays he stays and if he goes he goes.

I want to see him show more of that magical passing that he showed last game. He really got us scoring some points. He has been playing within himself this year but he didn't have a good pre-season. His last game was quality. We need more of that.

 

[TrueTiger]

If he stays he stays and if he goes he goes.

I want to see him show more of that magical passing that he showed last game. He really got us scoring some points. He has been playing within himself this year but he didn't have a good pre-season. His last game was quality. We need more of that.

This will be the big test for all of them,players and coaches...they have had long enough to realise the problems in the opening rounds...The last game was an indication that they are prepared to fight back instead of hanging their heads...Brooks should be fitter and with the team having the bye last weekend they should have been on the park working hard to remedy the problems that are there...after all they are professional players and should be doing extra to become better as a team,granted there are a couple of changes this week,but they have been indicating that the penny will drop soon...

 

[jirskyr]

The thing is Lauren we were given the same message when Cleary, Maguire and dare I say JT were given the job. Three to five year plans to change culture and bulid a competiitve squad While Sheens can't be blamed for the past failures, we certainly don't look to be moving forward on the field since his much anticipated arrival, and he has got more resources than all those who failed before him.
It's very hard to cop the same spin when we see a start up club already looking miles ahead of us.

It needs to be noted however that some of the "more resources" given to Sheens and Benji have been in effect for less than 12 months - i.e. the CoE and the current performance and recruitment staff.

Matt Betsey and his pathways team started in July 2021.

So unfortunately, although the club should hope to quickly see some benefits of this investment, the true net benefits take years.

 

[Telltails]

It needs to be noted however that some of the "more resources" given to Sheens and Benji have been in effect for less than 12 months - i.e. the CoE and the current performance and recruitment staff.

Matt Betsey and his pathways team started in July 2021.

So unfortunately, although the club should hope to quickly see some benefits of this investment, the true net benefits take years.

If Maguire was kept on with the same results with this current squad there would be no tolerance for our current position.
Wasn't expecting a miracle turnaround by any means but our current position has to reflect on the coach/ coaches.
Didn't expect to be top 8 material, but still looking to win our first game at round 8 is really not acceptable especially after what most considered our best recruitment years.

 

[hank37w]

I think Tim is taking the old under promise and over deliver approach. Safe if they meet expectation but a hero if they exceed it.

Well Tim has exceeded all expectations, it appears that we actually did win the bye.

 

[Lukic]

 

[innsaneink]

Before colour photos

 

[weststigerman]

Brought Madge’s style back tonight, this time with a better forward pack.

 

[Papacito]

0-2 from 2 games we should have won at a jog.

Me thinks someone needs a reality check. I'll await your post in Rd 10 when you say, "come on guys, it's only 0-10"

Would we have your permission to take some deep breaths then?

This didn't age well

 

[TIGERS]

But it WAS a long time ago, 18 years, then 29, 32, and 34 years ago. The game has changed so much. I think the complete lack of success across multiple clubs here and overseas since then is very relevant

I read similar comments about this guy back in 2003 and 2004, and also from 2007-2009 and of course in 2012. Sheens has been considered past his best, out of date, the game has changed etc, his coaching was the problem holding a talented side back. Tigers needed a 'tough defensive coach; to impose discipline into the squad bla bla bla.

Sheens had a successful spell as coach of Australia after leaving us. (An awesome squad yes, but they also achieved some awesome results at the time) At one point it seemed like most distinguished coaches in the game had worked and learned from Sheens in their careers at some stage. (Todd Payten is the latest addition to this list). While in England he enjoyed stints as a director of football with Salford and got Hull KR promoted back into Super League. That's not a 'complete lack of success'. From the man himself...(the promotion winning game with Hull was also his 700th Game)


"This is obviously a game I’ll remember. To put it in context it’s as good as anything in my time,”



I think around that time (late 2017) we had just said goodbye to Woods, Tedesco, Addo Carr, and Moses. Ultimately Sheens is here to get us 'promoted' into a higher tier of football, (the 8), which is something he did in fact accomplish with Hull KR.

So , coaching one of the most formidable group of players at the highest level for you country, and enjoying a bit of success by helping to revive (yet again) an underperforming team.

How does that stack up against what Wests Tigers have accomplished since the start of 2013?

 

[jadtiger]

I read similar comments about this guy back in 2003 and 2004, and also from 2007-2009 and of course in 2012. Sheens has been considered past his best, out of date, the game has changed etc, his coaching was the problem holding a talented side back. Tigers needed a 'tough defensive coach; to impose discipline into the squad bla bla bla.

Sheens had a successful spell as coach of Australia after leaving us. (An awesome squad yes, but they also achieved some awesome results at the time) At one point it seemed like most distinguished coaches in the game had worked and learned from Sheens in their careers at some stage. (Todd Payten is the latest addition to this list). While in England he enjoyed stints as a director of football with Salford and got Hull KR promoted back into Super League. That's not a 'complete lack of success'. From the man himself...(the promotion winning game with Hull was also his 700th Game)


"This is obviously a game I’ll remember. To put it in context it’s as good as anything in my time,”



I think around that time (late 2017) we had just said goodbye to Woods, Tedesco, Addo Carr, and Moses. Ultimately Sheens is here to get us 'promoted' into a higher tier of football, (the 8), which is something he did in fact accomplish with Hull KR.

So , coaching one of the most formidable group of players at the highest level for you country, and enjoying a bit of success by helping to revive (yet again) an underperforming team.

How does that stack up against what Wests Tigers have accomplished since the start of 2013?

We are 2-7 with the best squad we have had in a decade,it is hardly anything to get excited about.

 

[clontarfkid]

We are 2-7 with the best squad we have had in a decade,it is hardly anything to get excited about.

If Maguire was kept on with the same results with this current squad there would be no tolerance for our current position.
Wasn't expecting a miracle turnaround by any means but our current position has to reflect on the coach/ coaches.
Didn't expect to be top 8 material, but still looking to win our first game at round 8 is really not acceptable especially after what most considered our best recruitment years.

Dont apologise for them ,nor back yet "another 3 year plan" to buy time
With the much improved and vaunted forward pack we have this year,plus a youngish backline growing developing and maturing , add some promising juniors coming thru("best batch Ive ever seen"},throw in the COE,and I definitely expected improvement over first half of last year where regardless we won a few games against good competition under Madge
I not unreasonably anticipated being on the fringe of the top 8 this year,like Ivan achieved with a worse roster a few years back...and like Bennetts gonna achieve with the Dolphins this year.. again with a worse roster than current WTs
We shoulnt polish it ....nor apologise for it..but our coaching staff are struggling to make individuals better players and/or create a cohesive team in attack like even above average coaches do(see Warriors/Titans)..which is why were ranked last in that facet and why were coming last overall
Weve been a gross disappointment this year so far..yet again..A media laughing stock salvaged only by a depleted Panthers in pouring rain,and a very fortunate win over divided and dumb Dragons
But still coming last!!!
Going out to see em on Saturday with some Bunnies buddies,but candidly not looking fwd to a probable non contest
We need and deserve more than yet another few years of coach .spin to buy time ..get individuals to play to their potential and lift to the Apis and Papis wld be a start..not sit back and admire.Thats a coaching challenge in itself(one of many)

 

[TIGERS]

Dont apologise for them ,nor back yet "another 3 year plan" to buy time
With the much improved and vaunted forward pack we have this year,plus a youngish backline growing developing and maturing , add some promising juniors coming thru("best batch Ive ever seen"},throw in the COE,and I definitely expected improvement over first half of last year where regardless we won a few games against good competition under Madge
I not unreasonably anticipated being on the fringe of the top 8 this year,like Ivan achieved with a worse roster a few years back...and like Bennetts gonna achieve with the Dolphins this year.. again with a worse roster than current WTs
We shoulnt polish it ....nor apologise for it..but our coaching staff are struggling to make individuals better players and/or create a cohesive team in attack like even above average coaches do(see Warriors/Titans)..which is why were ranked last in that facet and why were coming last overall
Weve been a gross disappointment this year so far..yet again..A media laughing stock salvaged only by a depleted Panthers in pouring rain,and a very fortunate win over divided and dumb Dragons
But still coming last!!!
Going out to see em on Saturday with some Bunnies buddies,but candidly not looking fwd to a probable non contest
We need and deserve more than yet another few years of coach .spin to buy time ..get individuals to play to their potential and lift to the Apis and Papis wld be a start..not sit back and admire.Thats a coaching challenge in itself(one of many)

The Dolphins are not there yet. Its a long season and we're not even half way through it. (See Wests Tigers circa 2000)

It looks like we have settled on a spine that and it seems in much better shape than what we started the season with. Our pack is fine, we're completing sets, so far we've only been smashed on the scoreboard by the Broncos. If the team can be as solid as it has been this month, say for 8 of our remaining 17 fixtures then we are in with a shout.

 

[tony soprano]

Knew he could still coach

 

[Buttface]

We are 2-7 with the best squad we have had in a decade,it is hardly anything to get excited about.

Start rubbing your hands together with anticipation and excitement as we go on a 15 game undefeated run

 

[Halbrowne61]

Start rubbing your hands together with anticipation and excitement as we go on a 15 game undefeated run

Before we get to that I would be more than happy to see our current run extend to 3 on the trot.
Remember the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time.

 

[earl]

Start rubbing your hands together with anticipation and excitement as we go on a 15 game undefeated run

Can you imagine ?

 

[Tucker]

Dont apologise for them ,nor back yet "another 3 year plan" to buy time
With the much improved and vaunted forward pack we have this year,plus a youngish backline growing developing and maturing , add some promising juniors coming thru("best batch Ive ever seen"},throw in the COE,and I definitely expected improvement over first half of last year where regardless we won a few games against good competition under Madge
I not unreasonably anticipated being on the fringe of the top 8 this year,like Ivan achieved with a worse roster a few years back...and like Bennetts gonna achieve with the Dolphins this year.. again with a worse roster than current WTs
We shoulnt polish it ....nor apologise for it..but our coaching staff are struggling to make individuals better players and/or create a cohesive team in attack like even above average coaches do(see Warriors/Titans)..which is why were ranked last in that facet and why were coming last overall
Weve been a gross disappointment this year so far..yet again..A media laughing stock salvaged only by a depleted Panthers in pouring rain,and a very fortunate win over divided and dumb Dragons
But still coming last!!!
Going out to see em on Saturday with some Bunnies buddies,but candidly not looking fwd to a probable non contest
We need and deserve more than yet another few years of coach .spin to buy time ..get individuals to play to their potential and lift to the Apis and Papis wld be a start..not sit back and admire.Thats a coaching challenge in itself(one of many)

Good summation of where we are at currently.
We are two on the trot, but still not playing great footy. Proper test this weekend, so we’ll re-evaluate on Sunday.