Buttface
Well-known member
Flanno was a Magpie.
Des was a blow-in, another retirement contract for a couple of years coz manly wouldn’t re-sign him.
I think the issue is Sheens
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Des was a blow-in, another retirement contract for a couple of years coz manly wouldn’t re-sign him.
There's been a lot of discussion around culture and confusion to why there's been no immediate change in performance.
While I agree moving Sheens from his previous role has caused a major setback, I don't believe it's all been futile.
(Prior to reclaiming his coaching job) his evaluation of the team was proficient and I think he knew perfectly well that this club struggles to attract top-tier players.
He's always maintained that it will be a gradual process to rebuild it and I think the main problem (why we look disjointed) is that bringing in a certain standard of players (such as Koroisau, Papalii, Klemmer and Bateman) has now raised the bar, thus it requires further time and more experience together (learning each other's games) before we see some success.
No offence our guys have never played consistently at the level of those mentioned and they aren't going improve overnight. (It's a bit like when Harry Grant came here, the difference in competitiveness between him and our guys was clearly evident).
It's about bringing players up to a certain standard/level or recruiting the right players in order to do this - bringing the team up to scratch, so to speak.
His target was to have a competitive side, a genuine premiership contending team, by 2025.
If we can gain several players that are of a similar ability to all aforementioned players there's nothing to say we can't achieve this goal.
While I agree moving Sheens from his previous role has caused a major setback, I don't believe it's all been futile.
(Prior to reclaiming his coaching job) his evaluation of the team was proficient and I think he knew perfectly well that this club struggles to attract top-tier players.
He's always maintained that it will be a gradual process to rebuild it and I think the main problem (why we look disjointed) is that bringing in a certain standard of players (such as Koroisau, Papalii, Klemmer and Bateman) has now raised the bar, thus it requires further time and more experience together (learning each other's games) before we see some success.
No offence our guys have never played consistently at the level of those mentioned and they aren't going improve overnight. (It's a bit like when Harry Grant came here, the difference in competitiveness between him and our guys was clearly evident).
It's about bringing players up to a certain standard/level or recruiting the right players in order to do this - bringing the team up to scratch, so to speak.
His target was to have a competitive side, a genuine premiership contending team, by 2025.
If we can gain several players that are of a similar ability to all aforementioned players there's nothing to say we can't achieve this goal.
HUNT 101
Well-known member
Yeah so what,I didn't say he was a legend of the magpies just simply he played for them and Flanno isn't interested in the west tiger's..Des probably isn't ever that's why Sheen's is care taker no body seems interested but Des is worth a mention. He can blow into the Tigers coaching staff for 2years and palm it into Benji
Harvey
Well-known member
He has won as many premierships as I have in the last 15 years. He does have me covered for wooden spoons, super league relegations and number of times sacked.
Bringing him back was an absolutely dumbass decision by the club and it is working out much as I expected.
By selling himself as basically a long term caretaker he avoids any responsibility and accountability
Halbrowne61
Well-known member
Not sure if Des would be a great mentor, guys like him usually operate in their own world !
tigerballs
Well-known member
100% spot on, correct, exactly.
tigerballs
Well-known member
Only 4 current coaches have won a premiership since 2005. 3 other winners have been sacked including Bennett. Comes and goes...
The thing is Lauren we were given the same message when Cleary, Maguire and dare I say JT were given the job. Three to five year plans to change culture and bulid a competiitve squad While Sheens can't be blamed for the past failures, we certainly don't look to be moving forward on the field since his much anticipated arrival, and he has got more resources than all those who failed before him.
It's very hard to cop the same spin when we see a start up club already looking miles ahead of us.
Basically what's different this year ? Well we've recruited Korisau ,Papalii , Klemmer and Bateman and lost Garner , Tuilagi , Musgrove and Luciano ,Tamou and Liddle
So like for like weve improved our forwards a bit
With the backs we've lost Hastings, Maumalo ,Peachy,Madden and now Talau and Douehi gone for a long long time and we've recruited almost nothing
On top of that we've got Nofo and Laurie fallen from grace
Its clear we are suffering from a really weak backline and Sheens is hoping Wakeham can step up from reserve grade standard to first grade standard and Brooks will suddenly turn into a game breaker neither seem likely and on top of that we don't have any class centers
Here's hoping Bula can be our new Teddy or the hammer
All in all everything above adds up to no progress
By the way last year we beat parra and souths and thrashed broncos at suncorp and morally beat the cows in Townsville
If all the above is a report card I give it a C minus
So like for like weve improved our forwards a bit
With the backs we've lost Hastings, Maumalo ,Peachy,Madden and now Talau and Douehi gone for a long long time and we've recruited almost nothing
On top of that we've got Nofo and Laurie fallen from grace
Its clear we are suffering from a really weak backline and Sheens is hoping Wakeham can step up from reserve grade standard to first grade standard and Brooks will suddenly turn into a game breaker neither seem likely and on top of that we don't have any class centers
Here's hoping Bula can be our new Teddy or the hammer
All in all everything above adds up to no progress
By the way last year we beat parra and souths and thrashed broncos at suncorp and morally beat the cows in Townsville
If all the above is a report card I give it a C minus
Sheens has basically conceded the team was/is no match for the top teams and are a long way off. So while I don't disagree with any of your thoughts or feelings on it, my comments however, were in relation to building a competitive roster and how it's dependent on quality players enhancing the performance standard of the team.
StarswithStripes
Well-known member
Well said
Sheens is facing the same barriers as the coaches before him regarding recruitment - and attracting the quality needed to improve our position.
He did however talk it all up before the season started and threw shade at the last coach for being a square peg in a round hole, and that we would notice a difference in the style of footy - probably not a wise decision with hindsight now with the worst losing record in our history.
Bigscreentv
Well-known member
Agree, talking it up was a mistake, but I think his intentions were good and all we need is a win.
Sheens has proven multiple times that he knows how to build a winning culture - he’s won 4 premierships. I don’t buy this crap that if was a long time ago…Sheens job is to pull a bunch of people together and get them working in the one direction, in a plan they believe in. Unfortunately his plan requires skilful players that back themselves and that was coached out of them by Madge, but I’m confident things will turn. It just takes time.
Thank god we didn’t end up with the Rugby League Whisperer (Ciraldo) - big money for some great press conferences, but that’s about it so far.
Sheens has proven multiple times that he knows how to build a winning culture - he’s won 4 premierships. I don’t buy this crap that if was a long time ago…Sheens job is to pull a bunch of people together and get them working in the one direction, in a plan they believe in. Unfortunately his plan requires skilful players that back themselves and that was coached out of them by Madge, but I’m confident things will turn. It just takes time.
Thank god we didn’t end up with the Rugby League Whisperer (Ciraldo) - big money for some great press conferences, but that’s about it so far.
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I don't wish to get into any of that and I'm not exactly sure what you're challenging as I suggested the same thing (barrier with recruitment) and feel it's inconsequential to our current season.
My post was mainly about the team's current construct requiring time to build on teamwork, combinations and other factors.
This year was always going to be about assembling a forward pack that was a solid enough foundation for the team to play off the back of.
Dessie only played one year with the Magpies, in 1997; and yes, it was for his superannuation. 🙁
HUNT 101
Well-known member
But ,I think of the current top 30 players about 10 or 11 will still be contracted for 2025 , Our captain isn't one of them,so that means a lot of young fellas or a lot of recruiting either way they will need to to work out how to play along side each other. I think next year's recruitment in back line it top of the list if 2025 is the magic year .and recruiting plays to a potential back to back wooden spoon club could be a hard sell.
StarswithStripes
Well-known member
I think Tim is taking the old under promise and over deliver approach. Safe if they meet expectation but a hero if they exceed it.
Not challenging you didnt mean it to come off that way - but definitely questioning Sheens/actions and his messaging. He sacked the last coach on the back of poor results - fair enough. Identified he was a poor fit for the club and made a point that we would see a new playing style - I think most assumed that would mean improvement on the back of a good recruitment drive.
But, on the back of that strengthened forward pack going reasonably well, the constant juggling of the spine, being zero wins after 7 rounds, and the club being the butt of everyone's jokes finding it very difficult to back Sheen's three year build talk when it's our performances and position that is the biggest barrier to rebuilding.
I think you are blaming Madge for Brooks failure when he has been the same now as he has been for the last 8/9 years at least...How you can honestly say he has coached the skill out of Klemmer,Bateman,Api,Paps,Tupou and Stains when they werent even here before he was sacked is a ridiculous statement and just shows how much distain people had for Madge..He didnt work out for us,but his desire to help the club was always there...
Sheens has far better players,more money and some youth coming through the pathways that Madge got going again...
Frosty
Well-known member
But it WAS a long time ago, 18 years, then 29, 32, and 34 years ago. The game has changed so much. I think the complete lack of success across multiple clubs here and overseas since then is very relevant
