Improvement

[PYMBLEPETE]

Unlike many I don't believe Taylor has lost the playing group.

When Sheens was coming to the end, there were players just going through the motions & didn't appear to be playing together- Benji being the ultimate example.

Under Potter the team simply stopped playing midway through the season, once the Farah-Potter thing came to a head.

But under Taylor I see guys that should have excuses for poor defence putting in- Moses & Brooks are putting their bodies on the line despite being 'small' and therefore having 'excuses' for poor defence. I see a team that isn't shirking it's defensive responsibilities- and that is the 'hard work' part of football. If the team had given up on Taylor, they'd be getting wiped worse than what Potter had- due to the players inexperience coupled with poor effort.

That isn't the case.

So the improvement I see is this- the team is committed. Add a few extra pieces as far as talent goes, and with more experience for the young 'important' players, and I think JT has this side moving in the right direction.

Not surprising that at the beginning of the year 2nd Row & Centre were diagnosed by JT as the weaker positions- and when injury struck (mid game for our top Centres) it was at these moments we got exposed the most (Lovett having to play Centre against the Panthers is a good example)

I think this side is on the verge of being very good.

You're seeing it right Chadman; players are still putting in each week.

 

[ricksen]

You'd think that with a new coach, the new structures and gameplans would take time to come to fruition, but that we'd eventually see improvement over the back end of the season. This was my expectation for the season.

In reality, our much vaunted defensive focus has actually seen our points against rise as the season has gone on.
We've played games in four batches this season, broken up by the Test weekend and the two byes. 8 games in the first batch, 3 in the second, then 5 and 8 (of which we've played 7).
The points against average has actually increased for each batch (averaged independently): 18.6 for the first, then 22, 25.2 and 27 (with a game to play).

Simplifying it slightly - our points against for the first two batches (lets call it the first 'half') was 19.5\. This was up to and including the Cowboys game, 11 games in total.
Our points against for the second 'half' is 26.3\. This is from the GC game at Leichhardt and onwards, 12 games in total.

This is a hugely worrying trend IMO.

By the same token - our attack has gone from 17.4ppg in the first 'half' to 22.2ppg in the second.
Average differential has gone from -2.2 to -4.1.

 

[jirskyr]

You'd think that with a new coach, the new structures and gameplans would take time to come to fruition, but that we'd eventually see improvement over the back end of the season. This was my expectation for the season.

In reality, our much vaunted defensive focus has actually seen our points against rise as the season has gone on.
We've played games in four batches this season, broken up by the Test weekend and the two byes. 8 games in the first batch, 3 in the second, then 5 and 8 (of which we've played 7).
The points against average has actually increased for each batch (averaged independently): 18.6 for the first, then 22, 25.2 and 27 (with a game to play).

Simplifying it slightly - our points against for the first two batches (lets call it the first 'half') was 19.5\. This was up to and including the Cowboys game, 11 games in total.
Our points against for the second 'half' is 26.3\. This is from the GC game at Leichhardt and onwards, 12 games in total.

This is a hugely worrying trend IMO.

By the same token - our attack has gone from 17.4ppg in the first 'half' to 22.2ppg in the second.
Average differential has gone from -2.2 to -4.1.

Nice analysis.

Do you know what interests me from this - many fans were crying mid-year about "opening up the attack", but these statistics show that improvements in attack have not been matched by improvements in defence. Rather, the less points we've scored, the better our defence has been. It gives some credibility to the idea from JT that we need to get the defence right first, because letting the attack off the leash seems to have negative implications for defence.

My take on this is we are an immature side - loads of potential, but highly inconsistent. Nothing groundbreaking about this idea, but I don't believe we currently have the ability to concentrate evenly on multiple aspects of the game. That's the difference between us and the top sides, who get both attack and defence right most weeks. Our best games are amazing, we can kill any team, but our worst games are horrible.

 

[Tim Sheens]

You'd think that with a new coach, the new structures and gameplans would take time to come to fruition, but that we'd eventually see improvement over the back end of the season. This was my expectation for the season.

In reality, our much vaunted defensive focus has actually seen our points against rise as the season has gone on.
We've played games in four batches this season, broken up by the Test weekend and the two byes. 8 games in the first batch, 3 in the second, then 5 and 8 (of which we've played 7).
The points against average has actually increased for each batch (averaged independently): 18.6 for the first, then 22, 25.2 and 27 (with a game to play).

Simplifying it slightly - our points against for the first two batches (lets call it the first 'half') was 19.5\. This was up to and including the Cowboys game, 11 games in total.
Our points against for the second 'half' is 26.3\. This is from the GC game at Leichhardt and onwards, 12 games in total.

This is a hugely worrying trend IMO.

By the same token - our attack has gone from 17.4ppg in the first 'half' to 22.2ppg in the second.
Average differential has gone from -2.2 to -4.1.

Would have looked a hell of a lot worse had you compiled it last week Ricksen

 

[ricksen]

Do you know what interests me from this - many fans were crying mid-year about "opening up the attack", but these statistics show that improvements in attack have not been matched by improvements in defence. Rather, the less points we've scored, the better our defence has been. It gives some credibility to the idea from JT that we need to get the defence right first, because letting the attack off the leash seems to have negative implications for defence.

This is a very fair point.

Ultimately the numbers above don't mean anything, as this year was always being written off. There could be all sorts of reasons as to why the defence has dropped off - strength of schedule (can't be bothered to do this tbh), young players running out of puff as the season has gone on (very possible if not probable), JT changing his tune (again, possible) or just plain old JT struggling to get his methods across and/or losing the room (if so, we're in trouble).

How we turn up and perform in 2016 will tell us more about where we are and how we're going re: the grand plan for top 4 in '17\. If we get to mid June '16 without much improvement, then we'll have some really hard decisions to make - both JT's status as well as recruitment/retention for '17 and beyond.

 

[jirskyr]

Do you know what interests me from this - many fans were crying mid-year about "opening up the attack", but these statistics show that improvements in attack have not been matched by improvements in defence. Rather, the less points we've scored, the better our defence has been. It gives some credibility to the idea from JT that we need to get the defence right first, because letting the attack off the leash seems to have negative implications for defence.

This is a very fair point.

Ultimately the numbers above don't mean anything, as this year was always being written off. There could be all sorts of reasons as to why the defence has dropped off - strength of schedule (can't be bothered to do this tbh), young players running out of puff as the season has gone on (very possible if not probable), JT changing his tune (again, possible) or just plain old JT struggling to get his methods across and/or losing the room (if so, we're in trouble).

How we turn up and perform in 2016 will tell us more about where we are and how we're going re: the grand plan for top 4 in '17\. If we get to mid June '16 without much improvement, then we'll have some really hard decisions to make - both JT's status as well as recruitment/retention for '17 and beyond.

I don't think it's right to say the numbers don't mean anything, but rather that they suggest patterns that can be interpreted.

Personally I think half a season is a big enough dataset to make comments on performance, and it really shouldn't matter whether the team is vying for the finals or the injury list over 13+ games. Sure over 2 or 3 games the weather or time of day has impact, but over half or a whole season, those types of impacts really should average out.

For example you can argue that Tigers defence has fallen away in the back half because we are out of the finals, but in this same period we've won half our games, so the match results are as good (ordinary) as they've been all year. Actually if we beat Saints tomorrow, we will have won more games in the second half of the year, and 67% of our final 6 rounds.

You might argue that 4/6 is a strong finish to the year and evidence of not clocking-off, or that we only start to win once the pressure of finals footy has been removed (typical Tigers).

If you then look at teams like Manly and Raiders, they have had everything to play for in the last month but fallen away dramatically.

 

[stevetiger]

I think anyone arguing that Taylor Ball worked in any way, shape or form is clearly delusional. Taylor ball has been a massive failure.

We need to focus on playing positive football and utilising a game plan to suit the players that we have.

 

[jirskyr]

I think anyone arguing that Taylor Ball worked in any way, shape or form is clearly delusional. Taylor ball has been a massive failure.

We need to focus on playing positive football and utilising a game plan to suit the players that we have.

Not bagging you, just interested in you elaborating on what this actually means.

What is positive football exactly and how are the current game plans not suiting our players?

 

[stevetiger]

I think anyone arguing that Taylor Ball worked in any way, shape or form is clearly delusional. Taylor ball has been a massive failure.

We need to focus on playing positive football and utilising a game plan to suit the players that we have.

Not bagging you, just interested in you elaborating on what this actually means.

What is positive football exactly and how are the current game plans not suiting our players?

I think its extremely obvious that when you play positive football you give yourself the best chance to win. Taylor ball was the one out hit-ups that simply didn't work. It was dumb and it cost us the season. The delusional comments regarding how we had to get our defence in order or other such palava has been shown for what it was.

Positive football is playing to win. So you have to pass the ball more than one off the ruck. You have to have some attacking plays such as run arounds or like the Tigers try off the long ball from Tedesco. You have to have players running hard and then getting quick play the balls and then moving the ball out wide quickly.

When it comes to our current game plans I think JT has changed his focus or the players are now playing much better because we have changed our game plan compared to earlier in the season. I personally haven't had an issue with the game plans for a while.

The point though is that its really obvious that JT and his sympathisers should be recognising how poor that style of play suits us as a team and how wrong it was to play footy like that. We will lose much more games over the course of a season and longer playing negative footy like that. The comments related to defence was simply spin.

Have we improved this year ? We have improved since Taylor ball was thrown out the window. I think moving Lawrence to the backrow was a good decision. I view this season as a waste though because I think the coach stuffed us up too much earlier in the season.

We may though improve next season. I think moving on Richards and Galloway if we can get some better replacements may help us. I think that Robbie is also getting past it but I think you could get some value out of him. We need though some explosiveness out of dummy half and I don't think Robbie adds that now throughout the course of the game. Brooks and Moses may improve next year and if we get some punch in the forwards consistently I can see us improving a lot. My main concern is really the coach that we have. Will he stuff up our season again ? He has to be viewed as a risk based on this years performance.

 

[batboy]

I honestly think we are a better team this year, I know out for and against is better.
We won 1-2 games more last year, sure - but how many games experience did we lose last year.
Anasta - his experience would have been invaluable.
Blair - as above - and the extra prop were short.
Thompson - had a great year with the Warriors…
Liam Fulton - big part of our side for a long time.

Weather you like it or not, Put those guys in this side, with this coach and this structure in this years comp and we are a top 8 team - maybe top 4...

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[stevetiger]

I honestly think we are a better team this year, I know out for and against is better.
We won 1-2 games more last year, sure - but how many games experience did we lose last year.
Anasta - his experience would have been invaluable.
Blair - as above - and the extra prop were short.
Thompson - had a great year with the Warriors…
Liam Fulton - big part of our side for a long time.

Weather you like it or not, Put those guys in this side, with this coach and this structure in this years comp and we are a top 8 team - maybe top 4...

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

Anasta was terrible for us. Losing him was a massive plus.

 

[jadtiger]

I honestly think we are a better team this year, I know out for and against is better.
We won 1-2 games more last year, sure - but how many games experience did we lose last year.
Anasta - his experience would have been invaluable.
Blair - as above - and the extra prop were short.
Thompson - had a great year with the Warriors…
Liam Fulton - big part of our side for a long time.

Weather you like it or not, Put those guys in this side, with this coach and this structure in this years comp and we are a top 8 team - maybe top 4...

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

No i believe the team has been much worse this year the loss of Fulton has been hard but to be honest i dont think he played too many games last year either due to head knocks.As far as anasta is concerned he was a liability not an assett

 

[BALMAINIAC]

Fact: 73% of statistics are made up

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[batboy]

I honestly think we are a better team this year, I know out for and against is better.
We won 1-2 games more last year, sure - but how many games experience did we lose last year.
Anasta - his experience would have been invaluable.
Blair - as above - and the extra prop were short.
Thompson - had a great year with the Warriors…
Liam Fulton - big part of our side for a long time.

Weather you like it or not, Put those guys in this side, with this coach and this structure in this years comp and we are a top 8 team - maybe top 4...

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

No i believe the team has been much worse this year the loss of Fulton has been hard but to be honest i dont think he played too many games last year either due to head knocks.As far as anasta is concerned he was a liability not an assett

It doesn't matter what you believe, we won 2 more games last year (which we could have easily done this year - yesterday, raiders, dogs etc.) and our for and against is better.
All accomplished with a much worse squad, and less experience. - with a spine that essentially was in their first season together.

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[stevetiger]

All accomplished with a much worse squad

I don't believe this comment. If anything the squad if injuries are taken into account is better this season.

and less experience.

I don't think this matters. We are losing a lot of experience next year but I think it should make us a better team.

with a spine that essentially was in their first season together.

This is a fair point however I rate these kids.

 

[TYGA]

We were much worse this year given the position we were in before Potter was white anted by Mayer in 2014 and we copped a horror run of injuries. Why are people looking to use stats to back up a horrendous year. It has been poor and not acceptable. Taylor should be given until mid year if we aren't gong well he needs to be advised he is unwanted for 2017 and he is FREE TO NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER CLUBS so we have a decent coach for 2017 when we should have money to spend.

Mark my words if Taylor leaves the Tigers he will never be a head coach of any other club in the NRL. He just isn't up to it. The only people on the planet that think otherwise are our board and this Forum.

 

[magpiecol]

We were much worse this year given the position we were in before Potter was white anted by Mayer in 2014 and we copped a horror run of injuries. Why are people looking to use stats to back up a horrendous year. It has been poor and not acceptable. Taylor should be given until mid year if we aren't gong well he needs to be advised he is unwanted for 2017 and he is FREE TO NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER CLUBS so we have a decent coach for 2017 when we should have money to spend.

Mark my words if Taylor leaves the Tigers he will never be a head coach of any other club in the NRL. He just isn't up to it. The only people on the planet that think otherwise are our board and this Forum.

It has been a fairly good year. It has not been poor at all. Not many games this year that we could not have won. Anyway, let's see how we go next year.

As far as Taylor is concerned, I know lots of people on this planet who believe that Taylor is a good coach, as do I and, according to Farah, so does Farah.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

We were much worse this year given the position we were in before Potter was white anted by Mayer in 2014 and we copped a horror run of injuries. Why are people looking to use stats to back up a horrendous year. It has been poor and not acceptable. Taylor should be given until mid year if we aren't gong well he needs to be advised he is unwanted for 2017 and he is FREE TO NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER CLUBS so we have a decent coach for 2017 when we should have money to spend.

Mark my words if Taylor leaves the Tigers he will never be a head coach of any other club in the NRL. He just isn't up to it. The only people on the planet that think otherwise are our board and this Forum.

It has been a fairly good year. It has not been poor at all. Not many games this year that we could not have won. Anyway, let's see how we go next year.

As far as Taylor is concerned, I know lots of people on this planet who believe that Taylor is a good coach, as do I and, according to Farah, so does Farah.

TYGA a very good and accurate summary of our season.

 

[Peaches]

We were much worse this year given the position we were in before Potter was white anted by Mayer in 2014 and we copped a horror run of injuries. Why are people looking to use stats to back up a horrendous year. It has been poor and not acceptable. Taylor should be given until mid year if we aren't gong well he needs to be advised he is unwanted for 2017 and he is FREE TO NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER CLUBS so we have a decent coach for 2017 when we should have money to spend.

Mark my words if Taylor leaves the Tigers he will never be a head coach of any other club in the NRL. He just isn't up to it. The only people on the planet that think otherwise are our board and this Forum.

Agreed
We've been way too structured in attack. I'm all for defensive structures but I like the attack to very much play what they see in what you would call a loose structure. So you have some set plays and ideas on how to use your strengths but you play what's in front of you.
Too many attacks are the same. Its caging up players with great footy IQ which we have. Tackling harder, running harder and supporting the ball carrier will win you every game in rugby league.

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[Tiger_Tim]

Sorry Col I don't agree. It's like my golf game, i can talk a good game but can't hit the ball straight. Taylor knows what the right things from his time under Trent Robinson but he doesn't know how to put them into practice. I don't have the answer to why this is but the tigers should have been far better off this year with injuries not being a problem for most of the year and a reasonable squad.
I know some of the players complained last year that Potter was too much of a nice guy and wasn't barking orders. Taylor is very similar and for some reason the players aren't responding. I had hoped Anthony Griffin was going to be our coach because he is a hard head and the Brisbane player last year loved him. Unfortunately he didn't have the spit and polish Taylor did.