Interesting read!

[supercoach]

^ and the effect on the squad morale, confidence etc in the meantime, depending on how long this goes on.

Well in real terms only the squad can answer that question , true ??

The quicker they get it right , the quicker the pain is over

Happy you have it nail on the head when you said only the squad can answer the question, and their lays the problem, we are at least three NRL standard first grade players short, so getting it right will not happen till the roster has been injected with some new quality blood. So do not expect much to change in 2015

 

[happy_tiger]

We know when we concentrate on attack we have points in us

We have rarely ever proven we can defend on a consistent basis

I don't think that this is a factual statement and I don't think it has anything at all to do with Taylor ball.

You can state that if we somehow learn to defend then we will easily score points but that is completely unproven. You can state that somehow our offence is fine and our defence is the problem however you could easily state its our offence which is the problem. In 2005 our offence was great. That is why we won the comp. If we get that right we should go well. I'm not even going to go into this line of reasoning though because its obviously short sighted and missing half of the picture.

A couple of points that to me are completely obvious and prove Taylor has no idea:-

1\. You need to score more points than you concede to win games. Focussing on defence only will not win you games because you also need to score points.
2\. Focussing on defence does not mean that you have no attack. You can have a good attack and a good defence.

I made two comments then , you focused on one

Our problem lies in the fact that when we try and focus on both (Bulldogs game Raiders game ) we switch off and lose anyway

We can do it , Saints game was an ok example , but the Saints threw very little at us that night

But my question to all is this

When do we start focussing on defence and our attitude in defence

Taylor admitted when he coached against the Tigers he focussed on our defence

Benji on 360 the other night said the basically only worked on their attack when he was a Tiger .

Look at the Saints , for a month they worked on getting their defensive structures right and they turned it around

Every bloke on the MMM team the other day agreed when talking about the WT's weaknesses

I would highly doubt that Brooks and Moses are being affected mentally by this , they see that stats , they know they miss tackles and need the blokes protecting them to be more effective and not get sucked into the guts

I'm not saying Taylor is blameless in some of our issues , if what others think is happening with the mid field bombs is true , well we need to be targeting making the fullbacks and wingers work harder and make decisions at the back

I believe we are putting the bombs up yes for hang time , but why would you solely target the middle of the field , make them play from a corner using the same tactic and burn some tackles up to help us get into better field positions

I know many of us are sick of being told to be patient , but this time I think Taylor is on the right track

 

[barra]

Happy, I just don't get the mid field up and under thing though (I can't call them a 'bomb').

There is no chase. There is no urgency to try to chase let alone in a straight line. We gift them metres because of this, or offer a broken line.

That's what is doing my head in.

At first I was blaming Moses, then I was blaming the chase, now I have no idea who to blame but it is costing us big time, every time, every game!!!

 

[Tim Sheens]

Happy, I just don't get the mid field up and under thing though (I can't call them a 'bomb').

There is no chase. There is no urgency to try to chase let alone in a straight line. We gift them metres because of this, or offer a broken line.

That's what is doing my head in.

At first I was blaming Moses, then I was blaming the chase, now I have no idea who to blame but it is costing us big time, every time, every game!!!

Just kick the ball "high, high, high" seems to be the go, as the trainer yelled to Moses before copping a gobfull back.

 

[TrueTiger]

^ and the effect on the squad morale, confidence etc in the meantime, depending on how long this goes on.

Well in real terms only the squad can answer that question , true ??

The quicker they get it right , the quicker the pain is over

Happy you have it nail on the head when you said only the squad can answer the question, and their lays the problem, we are at least three NRL standard first grade players short, so getting it right will not happen till the roster has been injected with some new quality blood. So do not expect much to change in 2015

Supercoach,spot on in your review..everybody including Taylor say we need to shore up the middle because this is where we leak points,just take the Tigers on through the middle and you score points…
Firstly if you have quality players to "shore up the middle " then half your problem is solved..
Secondly let the halves dominate the attack and you score points with players running off them...

In summation the quality of players in some key positions is our problem,we are in no FINANCIAL position to rectify this problem,hence we put up with "this is the structure "until the thick heads get it right then we will be on the end of a towel up every week....we don't have quality players to field a great NRL side...full stop...

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

The excuses keep coming.

Now we have a team of thick heads as well.

Never Taylors fault with these minions.

 

[happy_tiger]

The excuses keep coming.

Now we have a team of thick heads as well.

Never Taylors fault with these minions.

Well we will find out at some stage this season who's right or wrong

For the WT's sake I hope I'm right , because if I'm wrong where the hell do we go next ??

 

[Geo]

The excuses keep coming.

Now we have a team of thick heads as well.

Never Taylors fault with these minions.

Well we will find out at some stage this season who's right or wrong

For the WT's sake I hope I'm right , because if I'm wrong where the hell do we go next ??

Matt Parish..

And another Coach being paid out doing SFA…

 

[cunno]

Is anyone going to the coaches night which is on next month?
If so it would be appreciated if feedback would be posted on this forum regarding what Taylor and his assistant coaches have to say about the team's patterns of play and future directions.
I thought about going until I saw the cost.

 

[jirskyr]

Interesting read… and an opinion piece. Plenty of opinions on here already.

I've made lots of comments in other threads, but I am along the lines of happy tiger. People complain about what this team has produced (or failed to produce) in the last 15 years, so a dude comes in and says "I am going to totally overhaul the team structures" and people now complain that the changes are too drastic.

It's so easy to say "JT has no idea", with the support comment "surely we can both defend and work on our attack". Well not so obvious, because we've never managed it before. The old Tigers of the late 90s were a dour side, who could defend and hope to score a try or two for a win. Wests Tigers have always been attack-focussed, always more worried about crossing the stripe than defending it. Rarely have I seen the team be both attack and defence savvy at the same time.

The comment that really sells it for me, is what JT said maybe one presser ago. He said something like "I've coached against the Tigers before, it's a simple game plan, you just punch it up the middle until they fold". I don't want us to be that team any more, I am sick of it. I am sick of getting 30 points ahead in a game and being worried it might not be enough points.

Of course you can focus on defence and be a quality side. Many coaches say "get the defence right and the attack will come".

It's a pretty straightforward idea - if you can defend your line, hold oppositions out, stop momentum, then you give yourself an automatic attack platform. If you can do even better and defeat the opposition with defence, you can force turnovers and start attack in their half.

If you can only score tries, you get the Raiders-Bulldogs game last weekend, which was great for everyone except the Raiders and Dogs fans. It was like watching NYC.

 

[snowleopard]

The changes JT and the Board are trying to implement are just about defence . It's about culture and Attitude . And the starting point has to be with our kids same as in all forms of life. change is evident at the top now but if it can't be changed at the grass roots ( our junior players) it will never happen. IMO if JT doesn't change the thinking of brooks, Moses, Sirro, Teddy and the other young guys then we are only ever get more of the pain we have felt from 2006-2015\. the problem is at the moment because of the sins of our salary cap past we can't buy a couple of those hard nosed players we need to give us the attitude and muscle in defence required . The question is do we wait until we have the $ to buy change or do we start now from the ground up with our juniors and try and determine our own destiny . IMO and with no disrespect to fellow forum members opinions we are on the right path now for all the right reasons and need to be patient and give the Board a chance to stabilise, grow and secure the long term the business side of WT while JT teaches our juniors their trade and develops a structured disciplined approach to football.

 

[Xby]

I honestly am surprised that anyone is sticking up for this guy and buying his long term palava. You cannot win football games without scoring points. I've also never been less interested in watching us play as we are so boring.

To top it all off his talk about structures is one of the all time dumbest comments I have ever heard.

Lets hope he grows some brains and starts trying to win some games.

Watched St.George lately?

God, some people are pinheads.

Col.,Stevetiger has every right to voice his opinion without being belittled,as a matter of fact Steve is saying what a lot won't because they want to go with the flow of what's happening…I happen to agree with some of what Steve says,if you think Taylor's process is winning him popularity...think again...It would be great if our team shows some attacking flair and determination to win a game of football,after all we have a team full of superstars ready to set the Tigers up for many years to come...I just hope many of us will be able to see the end result or at least string a couple of wins together to keep me interested in this great game in the meantime while these PROFFESIONAL footballers learn a basic fundamental of the game....DEFENCE....

TT., Col has every…

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

Can anyone show me just two people on this forum who dont want the coach to make us a tougher team team with better club culture and defense?

One even.

All you guys arguing for the positive are taking this high morale ground where you are trying to say that those like myself who are critical of the coaching dont want this or against this.

The thing is almost all of the guys who are critical are critical of the boring attack we are playing, the mundane five hit ups and a bomb to the fullback thing.

You cant argue that because you all know that it is useless and makes no rugby league sense. Instead you try to paint this picture of us being impatient and wanting things to stay the same. Like we are happy to keep being this soft inconsistent team that the good clubs like to beat up.

Might fool the stupid in the room but most arent buying it.

Happy and a couple of others have tried to bring right and wrong into the argument, like it is so black and white that anyone who disagrees with the coach wants him sacked and doesnt appreciate what he is trying to do.

There is no right or wrong, we are both right. We need to get to where he wants to take us, same as we need to offer more in attack than five boring hit ups and a simple bomb to be classed a good team.

Can anyone accept that?

 

[TrueTiger]

TITG,I can see the point you are making,Happy is saying that we have to go through this process to be a much better team in defence,an area we have sadly been poor at…

I like some others understand that the defence is an important part of the gameplan,however,do we tighten up the defence so much that we sacrifice the attacking flair and expansive football that the young players are so reputed to have...
Understandably WTs were renowned for their exciting attacking game that everybody who follows the game appreciated the entertainment that went with it...albeit we did leak points through poor defence..

What I'm saying is,can't Taylor try and factor into his structure some form of an attacking game for a small period of the game to add some flair and not the same thing over and over...the Cowboys game is a good example....

I know that Happy and others are pushing the defensive role and it is obvious to all we need it..I always thought the game of rugby league was won by having defence and attack go hand in hand.....just my thoughts and if this structure JT is implementing is making the board pleased,so be it,I hope we don't have to go to every game in the next three years watching the same thing...over and over...

 

[larrycorowa]

I don't think Taylor coached them to run one out last weekend. The young halves are still trying to execute a gameplan that is asking them to control the game with an emphasis on defence.

The problem the last couple of weeks is that our forward pack has been soundly beaten and we are starting our sets in our own 20m. Once our forward pack starts to get on top i think you will see some more enterprise.

 

[TrueTiger]

I don't think Taylor coached them to run one out last weekend. The young halves are still trying to execute a gameplan that is asking them to control the game with an emphasis on defence.

The problem the last couple of weeks is that our forward pack has been soundly beaten and we are starting our sets in our own 20m. Once our forward pack starts to get on top i think you will see some more enterprise.

I hope your forecast is right Larrycorowa,I can't go through what I went through the other night against the Cows..may as well have stayed at home…

 

[stevetiger]

Can anyone show me just two people on this forum who dont want the coach to make us a tougher team team with better club culture and defense?

One even.

All you guys arguing for the positive are taking this high morale ground where you are trying to say that those like myself who are critical of the coaching dont want this or against this.

The thing is almost all of the guys who are critical are critical of the boring attack we are playing, the mundane five hit ups and a bomb to the fullback thing.

You cant argue that because you all know that it is useless and makes no rugby league sense. Instead you try to paint this picture of us being impatient and wanting things to stay the same. Like we are happy to keep being this soft inconsistent team that the good clubs like to beat up.

Might fool the stupid in the room but most arent buying it.

Happy and a couple of others have tried to bring right and wrong into the argument, like it is so black and white that anyone who disagrees with the coach wants him sacked and doesnt appreciate what he is trying to do.

There is no right or wrong, we are both right. We need to get to where he wants to take us, same as we need to offer more in attack than five boring hit ups and a simple bomb to be classed a good team.

Can anyone accept that?

Top post.

I don't think that they guys sticking up for Taylor are getting it at all. Taylor is spinning dribble and I'm not trying to be slack but you can't believe what he is stating. Any person with any degree of maturity in Taylors role would not be blaming the players but looking at what he is doing wrong.

I hope that he is looking at his role in this and changing things up. If not we are going to have a terrible 3 years unless he is sacked.

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

TITG,I can see the point you are making,Happy is saying that we have to go through this process to be a much better team in defence,an area we have sadly been poor at…

I like some others understand that the defence is an important part of the gameplan,however,do we tighten up the defence so much that we sacrifice the attacking flair and expansive football that the young players are so reputed to have...
Understandably WTs were renowned for their exciting attacking game that everybody who follows the game appreciated the entertainment that went with it...albeit we did leak points through poor defence..

What I'm saying is,can't Taylor try and factor into his structure some form of an attacking game for a small period of the game to add some flair and not the same thing over and over...the Cowboys game is a good example....

I know that Happy and others are pushing the defensive role and it is obvious to all we need it..I always thought the game of rugby league was won by having defence and attack go hand in hand.....just my thoughts and if this structure JT is implementing is making the board pleased,so be it,I hope we don't have to go to every game in the next three years watching the same thing...over and over...

Hey True Tiger, funny thing is i hated the style of football we played under Tim Sheens. I wanted it gone, just hated it, bore my girlfriend silly with continual comments about how soft we were and how ineffective the forwards were.

Soft, high risk, no go forward, forwards who think they are 5/8's, too much ball playing not enough impact,not earning the right to attack you name it.

Potter was more my style, the old Balmain forward pack style.

We are all for what Taylor is trying to do but five hit ups and a simple bomb is not some sort of sacrifice we have to accpet to get to where we need to go.

Its a coach making a mistake.

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

Can anyone show me just two people on this forum who dont want the coach to make us a tougher team team with better club culture and defense?

One even.

All you guys arguing for the positive are taking this high morale ground where you are trying to say that those like myself who are critical of the coaching dont want this or against this.

The thing is almost all of the guys who are critical are critical of the boring attack we are playing, the mundane five hit ups and a bomb to the fullback thing.

You cant argue that because you all know that it is useless and makes no rugby league sense. Instead you try to paint this picture of us being impatient and wanting things to stay the same. Like we are happy to keep being this soft inconsistent team that the good clubs like to beat up.

Might fool the stupid in the room but most arent buying it.

Happy and a couple of others have tried to bring right and wrong into the argument, like it is so black and white that anyone who disagrees with the coach wants him sacked and doesnt appreciate what he is trying to do.

There is no right or wrong, we are both right. We need to get to where he wants to take us, same as we need to offer more in attack than five boring hit ups and a simple bomb to be classed a good team.

Can anyone accept that?

Top post.

I don't think that they guys sticking up for Taylor are getting it at all. .

I have to agree, they just do not see why we are complaining.

 

[stevetiger]

Its a coach making a mistake.

Of course it is. The only question is can he change.