IS The Salary Almost Dead And Buried

[supercoach]

The idea of the salary cap was to save club from themselves by limiting their spending and of course trying to bring the bottom teams onto the same playing field as the top teams. Than this all went out the window with the introduction of TPA'S as all the strong teams than went onto another playing field as they could attract TPA'S far easier than the weaker teams. So we are back to square one and of course their has always been cap cheating, but I guess all teams have been guilty of that.

The answer to the problem is easy, teams have to be heavily rewarded for junior talent they have developed from grass roots. The reward would be two fold in the way of cap concessions and compensation if they are purchased by another team. To make this system fair a team like the chooks with virtually no juniors could be allocated a country region to foster junior talent in.

The bottom line is, at present the system is not working and needs fixing

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

After the money that Manly has thrown at DCE on top of which they now want to throw an equal amount at Foran.
Can the Salary Cap do the job that it was supposed to do any longer??

The salary cap was dead the moment David Gallop was outed.

Its now back to how it used to be with the wealthy clubs able to recruit better and more often under the guise of third party agreements.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

After the money that Manly has thrown at DCE on top of which they now want to throw an equal amount at Foran.
Can the Salary Cap do the job that it was supposed to do any longer??

The salary cap was dead the moment David Gallop was outed.

Its now back to how it used to be with the wealthy clubs able to recruit better and more often under the guise of third party agreements.[/quote

Definetly seems like it.

 

[krayola]

Remove TPAs but expand the salary cap. It seems about time for an increase tbh. It doesn't seem like many teams are at the salary cap floor but if anything right at the limit. Players already earn a lot of money but in comparison to other major sports, they could earn more. Also, if you remove TPAs then the calls for ONE marquee player exempt from the cap don't seem so ridiculous.

Player payments should be made public, at least for the fans' sake. It makes everyone incl. players, CEOs and the NRL more accountable. Outside of this board, how many Tigers fans really know that the reason we aren't signing anyone is because Lawrence is on an insanely backended contract? If this was publicised then at least the fans realise it is the past errors of the club rather than the current that are to blame.

The NRL needs to make more concessions too. A player who has spent 6-7 years with a club, beginning from the time they make their Holden Cup debut should qualify for some type of discount under the cap. Atm I think it's 10 years and that works for very, very few players/clubs.

More than anything, when you look at it, the salary isn't dead. Souths have been managed superbly. They've made some astute purchases, developed some great junior players and have plugged gaps with lowly paid veterans who fit in to a well-coached system. Yeah, having Crowe has sure helped, but strong leadership and a bit of luck are the difference between the good and bad teams more than a salary cap ever is.

 

[pHyR3]

There is no way NRL can restrict TPA's or it would be a clear restraint of trade.

As happy tiger said we need to get better at doing what everyone else is doing.

I still say that we form a corporate entity made with fans as stakeholders/shareholders. In that structure we can create a TPA with the player of our choice and then we will have an actual hand in marquee recruitment - totally disconnected to the club.

How this may work on a very simple level: if each fan (shareholder) contributes $100 and we get 2,000 fans then we will have $200k. Simples!

The only problem I see with my proposal is part of the TPA rules that state: _"All third party agreements must be registered and approved beforehand. This is to ensure that they do not become a way for clubs or players to use sponsors or third parties to undermine the salary cap."_

So to get around this: if a player set up a company for these purposes (e.g. Israel Folau's lawyers created a company called Company ABC and Israel Folau was the only shareholder) this would circumvent the issue because the "sponsoring company" (us) is simply transferring funds to another company.

I have floated this idea on this forum before and can't quite recall the objection to it, but I remember that it was rejected by the masses. Still, I can't shrug the concept…am I living in dreamland?

well i mean it goes against the primary criteria of a TPA which is that it must be given to a player regardless of the club he is at. e.g. Nike sponsors say SBW, they dont care if hes at the dogs, chooks, chiefs or whatever they just want his face on their ads.

the actual fan base of a club pooling together $200,000 would quite clearly circumvent that and thus not be a TPA.

 

[bigsiro]

Phyr3

Do you mean that it would not be a TPA nor under salary cap?

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[tig_prmz]

given this is one of the closest competitions in NRL history, i'd say no. the salary cap is not dead

think it's more to do with the game itself- look at the odds in afl, you have clear $1.02 favourites compared to nrl.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

There is no way NRL can restrict TPA's or it would be a clear restraint of trade.

As happy tiger said we need to get better at doing what everyone else is doing.

I still say that we form a corporate entity made with fans as stakeholders/shareholders. In that structure we can create a TPA with the player of our choice and then we will have an actual hand in marquee recruitment - totally disconnected to the club.

How this may work on a very simple level: if each fan (shareholder) contributes $100 and we get 2,000 fans then we will have $200k. Simples!

The only problem I see with my proposal is part of the TPA rules that state: _"All third party agreements must be registered and approved beforehand. This is to ensure that they do not become a way for clubs or players to use sponsors or third parties to undermine the salary cap."_

So to get around this: if a player set up a company for these purposes (e.g. Israel Folau's lawyers created a company called Company ABC and Israel Folau was the only shareholder) this would circumvent the issue because the "sponsoring company" (us) is simply transferring funds to another company.

I have floated this idea on this forum before and can't quite recall the objection to it, but I remember that it was rejected by the masses. Still, I can't shrug the concept…am I living in dreamland?

The whole Salary Cap is already a Restraint of Trade, both in the NRL as well as the AFL.
That has never been denied.
If anyone in either Code was to take it to court they would win.
The AFL's cap was made a mockery when the Swans gave Franklin a contract that lasts for way past when he's likely to be playing.
And Manly is doing the same with DCE , And trying to do the same with Foran.
While the cap has always been a joke( with most of the Broncos
Wives supposedly working for the club .
It's now become an even bigger joke.
While people can get TPAs it will never be an even playing field. The rich clubs will get bigger( teamwise) and the weaker teams will get swallowed up. There's been a lot of talk about relocation to Perth on here at times.
If this trend is allowed to continue, we may be better off , where we are in a one team City
Rather Than running against the tide in Sydney.
It's easy for me to say that , I know , as we only get to see them play once or twice a year up here, but until I moved from Sydney in 1980, I was involved with Wests club , and had been a supporter since 63 when I saw them play Saints in the GF.
I hated not being there to see them play each week , for awhile , but then made sure that every time they were on TV I watched .
I never softened my support for the team and when the Broncos and the GoldCoast came in it meant we got the chance to see them sometimes twice a year.
Regardless of whether you see 20'odd games live, or 26 games (some on TV) some live, most supporters will still support .

Anyway it may not happen , but it is worth thinking about , in case things get even more uneven in the game, and some clubs are told move or die. Maybe it's better to go as your own choice, before someone is pushed

 

[jirskyr]

There is no way NRL can restrict TPA's or it would be a clear restraint of trade.

As happy tiger said we need to get better at doing what everyone else is doing.

I still say that we form a corporate entity made with fans as stakeholders/shareholders. In that structure we can create a TPA with the player of our choice and then we will have an actual hand in marquee recruitment - totally disconnected to the club.

How this may work on a very simple level: if each fan (shareholder) contributes $100 and we get 2,000 fans then we will have $200k. Simples!

The only problem I see with my proposal is part of the TPA rules that state: _"All third party agreements must be registered and approved beforehand. This is to ensure that they do not become a way for clubs or players to use sponsors or third parties to undermine the salary cap."_

So to get around this: if a player set up a company for these purposes (e.g. Israel Folau's lawyers created a company called Company ABC and Israel Folau was the only shareholder) this would circumvent the issue because the "sponsoring company" (us) is simply transferring funds to another company.

I have floated this idea on this forum before and can't quite recall the objection to it, but I remember that it was rejected by the masses. Still, I can't shrug the concept…am I living in dreamland?

well i mean it goes against the primary criteria of a TPA which is that it must be given to a player regardless of the club he is at. e.g. Nike sponsors say SBW, they dont care if hes at the dogs, chooks, chiefs or whatever they just want his face on their ads.

the actual fan base of a club pooling together $200,000 would quite clearly circumvent that and thus not be a TPA.

Not only that, how would 2,000 people agree on how the money was to be spent? There would need to be a funds manager, ownership committee etc.

We can't even agree on the small things in this forum, let alone what we would do with $200K of real-life money.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Remove TPAs but expand the salary cap. It seems about time for an increase tbh. It doesn't seem like many teams are at the salary cap floor but if anything right at the limit. Players already earn a lot of money but in comparison to other major sports, they could earn more. Also, if you remove TPAs then the calls for ONE marquee player exempt from the cap don't seem so ridiculous.

Player payments should be made public, at least for the fans' sake. It makes everyone incl. players, CEOs and the NRL more accountable. Outside of this board, how many Tigers fans really know that the reason we aren't signing anyone is because Lawrence is on an insanely backended contract? If this was publicised then at least the fans realise it is the past errors of the club rather than the current that are to blame.

The NRL needs to make more concessions too. A player who has spent 6-7 years with a club, beginning from the time they make their Holden Cup debut should qualify for some type of discount under the cap. Atm I think it's 10 years and that works for very, very few players/clubs.

More than anything, when you look at it, the salary isn't dead. Souths have been managed superbly. They've made some astute purchases, developed some great junior players and have plugged gaps with lowly paid veterans who fit in to a well-coached system. Yeah, having Crowe has sure helped, but strong leadership and a bit of luck are the difference between the good and bad teams more than a salary cap ever is.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Remove TPAs but expand the salary cap. It seems about time for an increase tbh. It doesn't seem like many teams are at the salary cap floor but if anything right at the limit. Players already earn a lot of money but in comparison to other major sports, they could earn more. Also, if you remove TPAs then the calls for ONE marquee player exempt from the cap don't seem so ridiculous.

Player payments should be made public, at least for the fans' sake. It makes everyone incl. players, CEOs and the NRL more accountable. Outside of this board, how many Tigers fans really know that the reason we aren't signing anyone is because Lawrence is on an insanely backended contract? If this was publicised then at least the fans realise it is the past errors of the club rather than the current that are to blame.

The NRL needs to make more concessions too. A player who has spent 6-7 years with a club, beginning from the time they make their Holden Cup debut should qualify for some type of discount under the cap. Atm I think it's 10 years and that works for very, very few players/clubs.

More than anything, when you look at it, the salary isn't dead. Souths have been managed superbly. They've made some astute purchases, developed some great junior players and have plugged gaps with lowly paid veterans who fit in to a well-coached system. Yeah, having Crowe has sure helped, but strong leadership and a bit of luck are the difference between the good and bad teams more than a salary cap ever is.

I think Crowe has had a much bigger influence on Souths than you stated, he's been involved in a lot of talks with players including the Burghii, how much additional clout does a club have when a world wide movie star flies in to have a chat with a player about coming to your club, not to mention the extra money that may find its way into a club when Crowe and Holmes a Court are hanging around. .
I can't think of a big name player they wanted, that did not sign.
And I'll bet that Crowe had more effect on their signings than did Richardson

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Crowe is great for the game of RL & Souths. We need more like him involved!

I don't buy into the wealthy club vs poor clubs scenario. I see this more as well managed clubs vs poorly managed clubs.

The poorly managed clubs are holding back the game!

 

[bigsiro]

pHyR3: TPA's being given to a player regardless of where he plays is not primary criteria.

But, jirskyr you're right that we will probably not all agree on any one player (only recently I suggested that if money were no option we should go for Israel Folau and even that got shot down…go figure...).

But this idea is revolutionary and should still work.

If there was simply a majority rule then we don't have to agree. i.e. if 51% of paying stakeholders vote for/against sponsoring a certain player then that majority gets the nod, like it or not. Obviously a small constitution would be written and a core group of people would run it.

It could even be run from these forums and the votes could be taken here as per usual forum method, however it would have to comprise of a private group of company paying stakeholders.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

given this is one of the closest competitions in NRL history, i'd say no. the salary cap is not dead
There's a big difference between the top three or four clubs and the rest , and it will get a lot wider once all the Rep players are back

 

[pHyR3]

pHyR3: TPA's being given to a player regardless of where he plays is not primary criteria.

But, jirskyr you're right that we will probably not all agree on any one player (only recently I suggested that if money were no option we should go for Israel Folau and even that got shot down…go figure...).

But this idea is revolutionary and should still work.

If there was simply a majority rule then we don't have to agree. i.e. if 51% of paying stakeholders vote for/against sponsoring a certain player then that majority gets the nod, like it or not. Obviously a small constitution would be written and a core group of people would run it.

It could even be run from these forums and the votes could be taken here as per usual forum method, however it would have to comprise of a private group of company paying stakeholders.

"Third party agreements are payments made by companies directly to players. There is no restriction on the amount a player can earn through third party agreements where he is being paid for his own intellectual property, without the need to employ club logos or names and where the company involved is neither a club sponsor nor are they acting on behalf of a club to secure the player's services."

http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

so its saying that its irrelevant to the club itself (cant use club logos etc.)