It's time to take the fight back to HBG

[Tom Shines]

I think the club has had no trouble producing talented footballers.

It has difficulty developing them to their potential & retaining them in their peak years though.

I see what you are saying. But I think we see a number of talented players come through our junior ranks, which suggests the systems to identify etc are in place.

Retention starts to become a salary cap discussion.

Can you give us a list of say over the past 10 years ? I don’t think it’s as lengthy as you might assume from a junior area of 10,000 …

 

[innsaneink]

This list is from 99 and aare only those whove repped Wests Jnrs (AI)


[td]- Andrew Everingham
- Mitch Achurch
- Nathan Waters
- Daniel Fitzhenry
- Liam Fulton
- Bryce Gibbs
- Chris Lawrence
- Beau Ryan
- Simon Dwyer
- Brett Hodgson
- John Skandalis
- Harvey Howard
- Isaac DeGois
- Luke Covell
- Ben Roberts[/td]
[td]- Shane Perry
- Ryan Hoffman
- Shannon McDonnell
- Dean Collis
- Daine Laurie
- Shannon Gallant
- Peni Tagive
- Rocky Trimarchi
- Ray Cashmere
- Ken McGuiness
- Kevin McGuiness
- Ciriaco Mescia
- Steve Georgallis
- Gray Viane[/td]
[td]
- William Mataka
- James Tedesco
- Shaun Spence
- David Nofoaluma
- Matt Groat
- Jesse Sue


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Last decade approximately
- Ray Stone
- Justin Matamua
- Tallyn Da Silva
- Kit Laulilii
- Lachlan Galvin
- Jordan Miller
- Luke Laulilii
- Kit Laulilii
- Heath Mason
- Heamasi Makasini
[/td]

 

[weststigers]

Can you give us a list of say over the past 10 years ? I don’t think it’s as lengthy as you might assume from a junior area of 10,000 …

No one has ever provided this list when I have questioned who these juniors are that are doing so well at other clubs.

Our juniors are a myth. I don't think it was any better before the merger either.

 

[weststigers]

can someone brush up on what happened in 1999

Paid Football club members from both Balmain and Wests Football clubs voted in agreeance to a joint venture.

Those same members did they give up voting rights or somehow the organisation has transformed into a dictatorship club or something? How did we ever get to this point that boards cant be ousted ?

Frankly I don't think Balmain did their due diligence on the unique governance structure at Wests Ashfield. Balmain had a traditional leagues club model where members had a vote. Wests Ashfield have a debenture system which is impossible for members to remove a non-performing board.

 

[weststigers]

so what do we do? How do we finally get HBG out? From ACCC reporting, Liquor and gaming investigation, their mass incompetency that still doesn’t move the nrl… what hasn’t been tried? what must be done to wrestle our club from their cold dead hands?

You need more than 500 people at a march to be taken seriously for starters.

Most of our fans are apathetic or refuse to believe there is a problem.

Chad literally said in this thread we have no problem producing talent from our juniors...can't provide names, but there's no problem. Most fans have a low IQ, are totally deluded, don't care as long as they can chug a beer and stuff their face in front of the footy or a section are simply gaslighters for HBG that just run interference.

Until fans get serious with their knowledge of the situation in detail and they commit to not buy memberships or not going to games, nothing can really happen.

If you had an empty ground or member numbers tanked that would send a strong message. It would affect sponsorship and force HBG to come up with the shortfall. It's a cruel strategy because the players and coach don't deserve that, but they also don't deserve an ownership group that is totally unaccountable that has no idea how to run a successful football club.

 

[Tom Shines]

Last decade approximately
- Ray Stone
- Justin Matamua
- Tallyn Da Silva
- Kit Laulilii
- Lachlan Galvin
- Jordan Miller
- Luke Laulilii
- Kit Laulilii
- Heath Mason
- Heamasi Makasini
[/td]

Thanks …slim pickings

 

[Telltails]

You need more than 500 people at a march to be taken seriously for starters.

Most of our fans are apathetic or refuse to believe there is a problem.

Chad literally said in this thread we have no problem producing talent from our juniors...can't provide names, but there's no problem. Most fans have a low IQ, are totally deluded, don't care as long as they can chug a beer and stuff their face in front of the footy or a section are simply gaslighters for HBG that just run interference.

Until fans get serious with their knowledge of the situation in detail and they commit to not buy memberships or not going to games, nothing can really happen.

If you had an empty ground or member numbers tanked that would send a strong message. It would affect sponsorship and force HBG to come up with the shortfall. It's a cruel strategy because the players and coach don't deserve that, but they also don't deserve an ownership group that is totally unaccountable that has no idea how to run a successful football club.

I may be wrong but Shaun M is not engaging with fans on a forum if he doesn't have some concerns about the impact of another poor year and very little to suggest that next year will be better.
Selling memberships when people are financially struggling, no Leichardt, no significant signings ...its becoming a hard sell even for the most dedicated of supporters.

 

[terriaa]

No one has ever provided this list when I have questioned who these juniors are that are doing so well at other clubs.

Our juniors are a myth. I don't think it was any better before the merger either.

With such huge numbers playing there has to be talent there. Clearly it hasn't been identified or developed sufficiently. It takes a clear strategy plus money and commitment to create elite pathways. I wrote previously about Penrith's development because that's what i know, it's where I live. WT held their challenge day at Leichhardt last week, lots of participants so that's a positive. Shaun said “This is just the start. We've got a lot of work to do here, and we're on a journey to make this the best rugby league pathway in the world.”
Let's see what happens from here I suppose.

 

[hammertime]

This letter illustrates the structure:

https://holmanbarnesgroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FINAL-Expressions-of-Interest-Club-Debenture-2025.pdf

It states: “As Debentures become available, the Board calls for Expressions of Interest from suitably qualified General Members to fill any vacancies. There is a constitutional requirement for five (5) Director positions to be filled by General Members holding a Debenture. Two (2) Board positions are reserved for other members.”

So, there are a handful of debentures (the number isn’t clear but the letter states there were originally 20), and the board consists of 5 debenture holders and 2 board members representing all other members.

So the debenture holders control the board (5 of 7 votes).

When a debenture holder dies, their debenture becomes available and the board gets to select who the debenture goes to.

So, in practice, the debenture holders control the board and get to decide who debentures go to, meaning other members cannot ever exert any control.

So the Wests Tigers are controlled by 20 unaccountable people.

Let's also add that the debenture is not a material amount. Its $100. Nothing. So its backroom dealings and nepotism that gets you in the group.

They are squatters that we can't get rid of. NSW L&G have proven to be weak. The only one that can do anything is PVL and the NRL board.

I'd suggest the only next move is to lobby him directly.

 

[Jolls]

I want to throw out a different scenario; while the root cause of our issues is HBG the solution does not necessarily mean we need to wrestle the ownership from them or force them to sell. I believe that this is a hail mary scenrio that is hardly likely to happen.

The issue at hand it two fold:

• HBG are more focussed on the Leagues Clubs and the patrons side of the constitution than the support of Wests Tigers, and even then it could be argued that they are doing exaclty what the constitution says, and more by supporting Balmain in the NSWRL competition, as the wording remains support of Western Sububs in the NSWRL competion. There is no consitutional mention of Wests Tigers and the NRL.
• The debenture holders have the power.

So while we can lay seige to the kingdom and live in hope that they grow bored of having to fight and ditch the NRL franchise to focus on the Magpies or we can initiate change. This is where the strategy gets a bit sketchy as I don't live in the region. However, I have become a member of HBG so that in two more years time I will have the right to vote. The alternate strategy is to change the attitude of the board. This is not an easy task and poking them with sticks gets their backs up.

There needs to be a concerted effort from several fronts, with consistent and key messaging. The aim being to transform HBG from being reluctant to invest in Wests Tigers to them tripping over their feet to get there. We need to work from the inside to penetrate the Debeture System and work, concurrently, to have it constitutionally removed. There needs to be consistent messaging from Wests Tigers (the Club), and the membership (Wests Tiger, Wests Ashfield and HBG) regarding the benefits to HBG and the broader membership through investment in Wests Tigers and so on.

While there was some traction gained when the independent board was won - it was very short lived. Potentially Richo moved to quickly or was too abrasive - only those on the inside know.

The proof is in the pudding - Souths have turned it around, Penrith have turned it around and SM has done it once with the Mariners. Hell, look at how China is winning the world domination fight - through economics not military might.

Someone, with the right connections, in the right location, with the right support could lead a soft takeover. And with the right strategy could be even more successful if the pitchforks at the door are the key supporting role as a deception operation. Get the right minds together and it is achievable!

 

[liltiger]

HBG shouldn’t be within a 1000 miles of an NRL franchise. Rotten and incompetent to the core.

They are the cancer killing the Wests Tigers. HBG have to go.

 

[Papacito]

can someone brush up on what happened in 1999

Paid Football club members from both Balmain and Wests Football clubs voted in agreeance to a joint venture.

Those same members did they give up voting rights or somehow the organisation has transformed into a dictatorship club or something? How did we ever get to this point that boards cant be ousted ?

- Members agree to form a joint venture private company to run the NRL brand and team
- Private company is formed, members give up direct say on the joint venture but have a say via their board members
- Board is made up of major funders (Wests Ashfield, Wests Campbelltown, Balmain)
- Wests Campbelltown pull out, Balmain goes belly up
- Wests Ashfield effectively own the company
- The Tiger lives on in brand and via a token board spot

 

[liltiger]

can someone brush up on what happened in 1999

Paid Football club members from both Balmain and Wests Football clubs voted in agreeance to a joint venture.

Those same members did they give up voting rights or somehow the organisation has transformed into a dictatorship club or something? How did we ever get to this point that boards cant be ousted ?

I Could be mistaken, but when the merger originally occured Balmain amalgumated with Wests Ashfield and Wests Macarthur. Think it was 50% Balmain and 50% between both Wests entities. Over time Wests Macarthur pulled out of the joint venture, pretty sure they sold their share to HBG. HBG then secured Balmains debt default to the N.R.L in exchange for a further 40% stake in Wests Tigers. Leaving HBG with 90% and Balmain a token 10% ownership structure.

 

[BeeCeen]

I want to throw out a different scenario; while the root cause of our issues is HBG the solution does not necessarily mean we need to wrestle the ownership from them or force them to sell. I believe that this is a hail mary scenrio that is hardly likely to happen.

The issue at hand it two fold:

• HBG are more focussed on the Leagues Clubs and the patrons side of the constitution than the support of Wests Tigers, and even then it could be argued that they are doing exaclty what the constitution says, and more by supporting Balmain in the NSWRL competition, as the wording remains support of Western Sububs in the NSWRL competion. There is no consitutional mention of Wests Tigers and the NRL.
• The debenture holders have the power.

So while we can lay seige to the kingdom and live in hope that they grow bored of having to fight and ditch the NRL franchise to focus on the Magpies or we can initiate change. This is where the strategy gets a bit sketchy as I don't live in the region. However, I have become a member of HBG so that in two more years time I will have the right to vote. The alternate strategy is to change the attitude of the board. This is not an easy task and poking them with sticks gets their backs up.

There needs to be a concerted effort from several fronts, with consistent and key messaging. The aim being to transform HBG from being reluctant to invest in Wests Tigers to them tripping over their feet to get there. We need to work from the inside to penetrate the Debeture System and work, concurrently, to have it constitutionally removed. There needs to be consistent messaging from Wests Tigers (the Club), and the membership (Wests Tiger, Wests Ashfield and HBG) regarding the benefits to HBG and the broader membership through investment in Wests Tigers and so on.

While there was some traction gained when the independent board was won - it was very short lived. Potentially Richo moved to quickly or was too abrasive - only those on the inside know.

The proof is in the pudding - Souths have turned it around, Penrith have turned it around and SM has done it once with the Mariners. Hell, look at how China is winning the world domination fight - through economics not military might.

Someone, with the right connections, in the right location, with the right support could lead a soft takeover. And with the right strategy could be even more successful if the pitchforks at the door are the key supporting role as a deception operation. Get the right minds together and it is achievable!

All of this makes sense, but it is unfortunately a long-term only option. But it might be the only way.

In the meantime, I won’t be renewing my WT membership. Obviously it will not make any difference, but I cannot continue to support the current arrangement.

 

[tig_prmz]

No one has ever provided this list when I have questioned who these juniors are that are doing so well at other clubs.

Our juniors are a myth. I don't think it was any better before the merger either.

The point I made earlier isn't that these Juniors are joining other clubs, it's more so that we aren't able to develop these juniors so we are losing them from the sport.

You seem to have a better grasp at it than I, but to me, junior participation rates in SW are high, population is growing, RL is the most popular sport here, the catchment area is big and culturally a big Polynesian population that has thrived under organised sport just like the Penrith area.

My point is that we are not giving these kids the education and development they need. If they make it to NRL that's great but our Club needs to learn how to develop good men/ women first.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

It’s almost forgotten how close Wests were to merging with the Steelers in 98. Both the Magpies and Sharks were keen, but the Steelers went with the Dragons, thus forfeiting their entire identity.

 

[weststigers]

The point I made earlier isn't that these Juniors are joining other clubs, it's more so that we aren't able to develop these juniors so we are losing them from the sport.

You seem to have a better grasp at it than I, but to me, junior participation rates in SW are high, population is growing, RL is the most popular sport here, the catchment area is big and culturally a big Polynesian population that has thrived under organised sport just like the Penrith area.

My point is that we are not giving these kids the education and development they need. If they make it to NRL that's great but our Club needs to learn how to develop good men/ women first.

My comment wasn't influenced by your post at all because I haven't read it.

 

[Jolls]

All of this makes sense, but it is unfortunately a long-term only option. But it might be the only way.

In the meantime, I won’t be renewing my WT membership. Obviously it will not make any difference, but I cannot continue to support the current arrangement.

I think it has to be seen as a long term option, and it will take time but the first step is to get theball rolling. I don't think there is a a need to stop the external noise though. If well done the external noise could be the distraction that says look over here while the infiltration happens.

However, even if we were to push for an independent baord again at Wests Tigers and were successful we are still reliant on funding from HBG for success; ie, to achieve the pathways goal (for players, coaching and professional staff); to offer more to players that is outside of the cap and to make the game day experience so much better for fans - building membership numbers etc.

The goal (if we aren't sold off) has to be to change the mindset of the Debentre Holders (HBG) from being a dictator looking after themselves, to a benevolent dictator where they willing provide funding, to an them willing relinquishing power to the popular vote. The last one may be a bridge too far at the moment - but St George have done it.

Amost like running operatives in a foreign country - who is going to heard up the Wests Tigers version of the CIA?

For shits and giggles - here is the draft plan for Operation Eye of the Tiger: The Internal Restructuring Force.

Leadership Group "The Eye"

Command Structure

	The Eye
	(Strategic Command)
I	I	I
Phantom Cell	Inkwell Cell	Ambush Cell
(Infiltration of HBG)	(PsyOps)	(Mobilisation)

The Eye (Strategic Command)​

• Objective: Oversee the entire operation, coordinate cell intelligence, and manage the long-term transition of power.
• Core Personnel: Corporate governance and constitutional experts combines eith deeply connected Wests Tigers alumni.
• Mission: Develop the "Benevolent Charter" for the phased transfer of debenture voting rights back to eligible members.
• Execution: Identify legal loopholes within the HBG constitution and exploit debenture transfers and voting blocks.

Phantom Cell (Infiltration Cell)​

• Objective: Gain physical and legal access to the HBG voting apparatus by acquiring existing debentures or influencing current holders.
• Core Personnel: Wealth managers, corporate moles, and sympathetic minority shareholders.
• Mission: Penetrate the HBG board.
• Execution: Execute a "silent buyout" to secure proxy voting rights from disgruntled or aging debenture holders who want to see the club succeed.

Inkwell Cell (Psychological Ops)​

• Objective: Shape the narrative internally and externally to make the status quo untenable for the current dictatorship.
• Core Personnel: Investigative journalists, PR strategists, and influential Wests Tigers podcasts/fan-media figures.
• Mission: Leak verified data regarding how the debenture system restricts the club's overall performance growth.
• Execution: Targeted messaging campaigns emphasising that a "Benevolent Dictatorship" is the only way to save the franchise from systemic NRL failure.

Ambush Cell (Mobilisation)​

• Objective: Weaponise the fanHBG membership base and and apply pressure from the outside to mask timed internal moves.
• Core Personnel: General members, fan group leaders, and grassroots organisers.
• Mission: Mobilise the membership to demand constitutional reform.
• Execution: Coordinate highly visible, peaceful stadium activations during NRL matchdays to draw media attention to the governance gridlock while concurrently running a subversive " Pigs with Snouts in the Trough" campign within the general membership of Wests Ashfield.

No 007 stuff with glamour girls/boys; but enough subterfuge to be interesting! Perhaps we could run a Honey Trap - Do you think we could turn "The Wig"?

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

Chad literally said in this thread we have no problem producing talent from our juniors...can't provide names, but there's no problem. Most fans have a low IQ, are totally deluded, don't care as long as they can chug a beer and stuff their face in front of the footy or a section are simply gaslighters for HBG that just run interference.

Cooper Clarke is a quality junior from our area who is doing well for...Melbourne.