Junior recruitment and local junior development since 2012.

[Needaname]

Well being the OP’s my point did also include players like Twal, Aloia and the Huth as we as a club targeted them to make a debut at first grade so it stands.
Discount Benji and Farah.
Yeah my original point was centred around the disappointment of holding onto a player like Ava for the past 5 years as starting player at times and after his moved on he can’t even maintain a first grade spot.
As much as Ava would be disappointed it’s made me look into this deeper.
From memory the only players to debut with us from 2013 onwards (end of Sheens era) koribeti, M Moses and Ado Carr that have gone onto a new club and held down a first grade spot.
Now it’s great that we no longer have Ava and we definitely look like we are moving in the right direction but doesn’t this highlight just how poor our junior (before first grade) identification has been for the last 5 years.
When people say our starting team wouldn’t make the other teams bench’s I’m really starting to believe this.
I’m still going to put together the list so everyone can see the numbers.

 

[jirskyr]

Take away the two that played in 05 and its 5 juniors out of 15 spots.

13 years on and only 5 spots filled by juniors.

Thats a massive issue

Dragons team this week:

juniors = Dufty, Aitken, N'gale, Frizell, De Belin, Leilua (6)
not juniors = Nene, Lafai, Widdop, Hunt, Graham, McInnes, Vaughan, Sims, Ah Mau, Mann, Latimore (11)

MASSIVE ISSUE

Also you can't just remove juniors because they are old. Tigers are officially taking more junior footballers into this week's game with the comp-leading Dragons, even if we remove Twal (who isn't playing right), Hooth and Aloiai.

 

[Needaname]

Yep its 12 v 7 not 12 v 10

Well that's not what the OP asked, he asked how many debutants.

And you have your numbers wrong anyway with your recount, because if you remove the "non-juniors" then you have to do it from 2005 as well - Laffranchi grew up in Murwillumbah, Heighno is a Umina junior, Ben Galea was a Parramatta Junior. Fitzhenry actually played Flegg for Souths.

But what is a "junior" anyway? Benji came to Australia when he was 16 and didn't play for the Tigers until he was 18\. Farah started off in the Canterbury District comp. Marsters moved to Australia when he was 17 and first played for the Roosters.

In the case of this I mean, junior, players no matter the age signed to the West’s tigers pre first grade debut.
As in Latrell Mitchell with Roosters not just Victor Radley. But would also include Eloni Vukikofu or Matthew Ikuala.
Or in the Panthers case Kikau.

 

[Needaname]

Last Chance U
the Ritual ( Netflix original horror movie)
annihilation ( Netflix Horror Original movie)

Wrong topic?

 

[swag_tiger]

Last Chance U
the Ritual ( Netflix original horror movie)
annihilation ( Netflix Horror Original movie)

Wrong topic?

mean't for the netflix furom.

 

[Needaname]

Here is all 36 Players - The list might be a little bit hard to read but i can't seem to work out how to post it in a structured format.
Club No. | Player Name | Tigers Career | Debut Round | Position | Tigers Career Games | New Clubs | NRL Post Tigers
147 | James Tedesco | 2012-17 | Rd. 1 | Fullback, Wing, Centre | 90 | Roosters 2018 - | 15
151 | Pat Politoni | 2012 | Rd. 11 | Hooker | 1 | Sharks 2014-15 / Titans 2017 - | 15
152 | Curtis Sironen | 2012-16 | Rd. 12 | Five-eighth, Halfback, Second-row, Lock | 65 | Manly 2017 - | 20
154 | Marika Koroibete | 2012-14 | Rd. 21 | Wing | 16 | Storm 2014 / Rugby | 58
157 | Jack Buchanan | 2013-16 | Rd. 1 | Prop, Second-row, Lock | 41 | ESL 2016 - | 0
159 | Ava Seumanufagai | 2013-17 | Rd. 3 | Prop | 105 | Cronulla Sharks 2018 - | 14
160 | Sitaleki Akauola | 2013 | Rd. 5 | Second-row | 11 | Penrith Panthers 2016 / ESL 2018 - | 21
162 | Sauaso Sue | 2013-18 | Rd. 6 | Second-row, Prop, Lock | 108 | N/A | N/A
163 | Shaun Spence | 2013 | Rd. 6 | Second-row, Lock, Prop | 9 | Penrith Panthers 2014 | 0 - Retired
164 | David Nofoaluma | 2013-18 | Rd. 10 | Wing, Centre | 97 | N/A | N/A
165 | Jarred Farlow | 2013 | Rd. 13 | Second-row | 1 | French RL 2014 / NSW Cup Contract | 0
166 | Joel Luani | 2013-14 | Rd. 22 | Hooker | 9 | NSW Cup Contract 2016 | 0
167 | Luke Brooks | 2013-18 | Rd. 24 | Halfback | 99 | N/A | N/A
168 | Nathan Brown | 2013 | Rd. 24 | Prop | 1 | South Sydney 2014 / Parramatta 2016 - | 63
173 | Kurtis Rowe | 2014 | Rd. 6 | Fullback, Wing | 8 | QLD Cup 2016 | 0
175 | Mitchell Moses | 2014-17 | Rd. 17 | Five-eighth, Fullback | 67 | Parramatta 2017 - | 32
176 | Matthew Lodge | 2014-15 | Rd. 17 | Prop | 12 | Broncos 2018 - | 16
177 | Jy Hitchcox | 2014 | Rd. 23 | Wing | 4 | ESL | 0
178 | Asipeli Fine | 2014-16 | Rd. 25 | Centre | 3 | Bulldogs 2016 - | 0
179 | Brenden Santi | 2014-15 | Rd. 25 | Second-row | 11 | QLD Cup | 0
181 | Kyle Lovett | 2015-17 | Rd. 1 | Second-row | 50 | ESL 2018 - | 0
182 | Delouise Hoeter | 2015 | Rd. 4 | Wing | 6 | QLD Cup | 0
183 | Lamar Liolevave | 2015 | Rd. 4 | Second-row | 1 | Bulldogs | 0
184 | Nathan Milone | 2015-16 | Rd. 13 | Centre | 5 | NSW Cup Contract | 0
185 | Manaia Cherrington | 2015-16 | Rd. 13 | Hooker | 16 | Sharks / Warriors | 0
190 | Josh Aloiai | 2016-18 | Rd. 1 | Second-row | 50 | N/A | N/A
192 | Josh Addo-Carr | 2016 | Rd.7 | Wing | 9 | Storm | 41
193 | JJ Felise | 2016-17 | Rd.7 | Prop | 13 | NSW Cup Contract | 0
198 | Jacob Liddle | 2016-18 | Rd.18 | Hooker | 22 | N/A | N/A
201 | Moses Suli | 2017 | Rd.1 | Wing, Centre | 16 | Manly 2018 - | 9
204 | Esan Marsters | 2017-18 | Rd.13 | Second-row | 29 | N/A | N/A
205 | Matt Eisenhuth | 2017-18 | Rd.15 | Second-row, Lock | 27 | N/A | N/A
206 | Alex Twal | 2017-18 | Rd.17 | Prop | 23 | N/A | N/A
207 | Bayley Sironen | 2017 | Rd.25 | Second-row | 2 | NSW Cup Contract | 0
208 | Jeremy Marshall-King | 2017 | Rd.26 | Hooker | 1 | Bulldogs 2018 - | 17
217 | Tyson Gamble | 2018 | Rd.16 | Five-eighth | 1 | N/A | N/A

 

[Needaname]

Stats from the above - Out of 36

POST TIGERS PLAYER CAREERS
13 players who have debut for Tigers have ended up playing first grade again in their post tigers career.
Of these 13, 8 players have managed to maintain a first grade position at their new club (i.e not be dropped to reserve grade)
Of these 8, 4 players had played less than 15 games for the tigers. (Suli and Koribete 16 Each)

14 Players who have debut since 2012 have not seen first grade again.
of these 14, 3 players played more than 15 games for Wests Tigers.

RETENTION
9 Players who have debut since 2012 remain at the club in first grade.

 

[innsaneink]

Geez we need a win…. Even just a game... Something to discuss... Anything

 

[The_Patriot]

Good to see Garner get a well deserved run today.

That said you guys can talk all the facts and figures you want but we should be producing more players and have better junior development relationships in place.

 

[Harvey]

Well being the OP’s my point did also include players like Twal, Aloia and the Huth as we as a club targeted them to make a debut at first grade so it stands.
Discount Benji and Farah.
Yeah my original point was centred around the disappointment of holding onto a player like Ava for the past 5 years as starting player at times and after his moved on he can’t even maintain a first grade spot.
As much as Ava would be disappointed it’s made me look into this deeper.
From memory the only players to debut with us from 2013 onwards (end of Sheens era) koribeti, M Moses and Ado Carr that have gone onto a new club and held down a first grade spot.
Now it’s great that we no longer have Ava and we definitely look like we are moving in the right direction but doesn’t this highlight just how poor our junior (before first grade) identification has been for the last 5 years.
When people say our starting team wouldn’t make the other teams bench’s I’m really starting to believe this.
I’m still going to put together the list so everyone can see the numbers.

I think the biggest thing to draw from this thread is that we can't identify talent, and when we do we can't hold onto it.

Ava played NYC for Parramatta and we targeted him to play first grade. Moving to Cronulla has shown that he may not be up to it (though Cronulla do have good forward depth). He may have played more if he went to a different club, is he better than Tatola, Paseka or some of the front rowers currently getting a run at at the Dogs or Parra?

There is nothing to suggest that Twal, Aloiai or Huth would make the first grade squad at another club, but you could probably say that about a number of other players in our squad.

 

[Geo]

Good to see Garner get a well deserved run today.

That said you guys can talk all the facts and figures you want but we should be producing more players and have better junior development relationships in place.

Agreed since the crop of 2012-14….not much has happened..

McDonnell for all his short comings did a decent job with the 20's for a while..

Kelly Egan is highly rated as a recruitment manager but so far not seeing that much output..

 

[Russell]

Twal, Aloiai, Eisenhuth and Moses are from Parramatta, Addo-Carr from Souths and then Sharks and Gamble from Redcliffe.

Don't get the point of them being on the list.

 

[Harvey]

Egan was an assistant coach before he came here (2009-2016), his only previous manager of football role was at the cowboys 06-08.

You would hope he had nothing to do with recruitment between 2009 and 2016 because he was at Manly and the dogs with Hasler, where both clubs imploded due to the salary cap mess that was left behind.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I posted about this in another thread, but it’s probsbly more relavent here. Campbelltown is second only to Penrith as the biggest junior nursery in NSW. When you look at the players it’s produced over the years like Izzy, Hayne, Lawrence (yes I include him, because he would have been the best centre in the game for a decade if not for the hip injury), Tedesco, Hodgson, Hoffman, De Belin, you wonder why we are doing such a poor job. Penrith have them coming out both ends. They genuinely cannot keep them all. Us on the other hand, the only star we’ve developed in the last decade has been Tedesco. The club has been totally incompetent in this area. If we only we could pinch Gus.

 

[The_Patriot]

Good to see Garner get a well deserved run today.

That said you guys can talk all the facts and figures you want but we should be producing more players and have better junior development relationships in place.

Agreed since the crop of 2012-14….not much has happened..

McDonnell for all his short comings did a decent job with the 20's for a while..

Kelly Egan is highly rated as a recruitment manager but so far not seeing that much output..

I prefer Kelly Egan to McDonnell but i worry its more the systems we have in place then pure recruiting and talent spotting.

Losing Keebra park etc

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Bugger producing juniors IMO, where does it get us anyway? The club busts its arse unearthing and nurturing a budding star only for clubs like Roosters, Sharks, Broncos etc to pluck them from our grasp. Stuff that.
Where did the results/gratitude come from with "budding superstars" such as the 3 maggots that bailed on us last year? Zero results in the end.
Where did having the best crop of youngsters from 5/6 years ago who got to the GF in the NYC get our club? Nowhere. It is a waste of time, effort and money unearthing young talent when there are clubs with bottomless pits of money/suspect benefits who will pick the carcass clean of any player even remotely talented.
Cherry-pick proven performers from other clubs from here on in IMO.
The NRL refuse to acknowledge or reward clubs who produce their own talent so why should we be a supermarket for wealthy/dodgy clubs to shop at?
There 100% needs to be salary cap concessions for teams who produce their own.

 

[newtiger]

Good to see Garner get a well deserved run today.

That said you guys can talk all the facts and figures you want but we should be producing more players and have better junior development relationships in place.

Agreed since the crop of 2012-14….not much has happened..

McDonnell for all his short comings did a decent job with the 20's for a while..

Kelly Egan is highly rated as a recruitment manager but so far not seeing that much output..

I thought that David Warwick was the recruitment manager and Kelly Egan was football manager.

 

[TonyTiger]

Bugger producing juniors IMO, where does it get us anyway? The club busts its arse unearthing and nurturing a budding star only for clubs like Roosters, Sharks, Broncos etc to pluck them from our grasp. Stuff that.
Where did the results/gratitude come from with "budding superstars" such as the 3 maggots that bailed on us last year? Zero results in the end.
Where did having the best crop of youngsters from 5/6 years ago who got to the GF in the NYC get our club? Nowhere. It is a waste of time, effort and money unearthing young talent when there are clubs with bottomless pits of money/suspect benefits who will pick the carcass clean of any player even remotely talented.
Cherry-pick proven performers from other clubs from here on in IMO.
The NRL refuse to acknowledge or reward clubs who produce their own talent so why should we be a supermarket for wealthy/dodgy clubs to shop at?
There 100% needs to be salary cap concessions for teams who produce their own.

Very good points

 

[Needaname]

Twal, Aloiai, Eisenhuth and Moses are from Parramatta, Addo-Carr from Souths and then Sharks and Gamble from Redcliffe.

Don't get the point of them being on the list.

You miss the point Russell.
This is not just about Local Junior Development, it's also about targeting other juniors we see fit to play first grade.
This list is inclusive of everyone who has played their first nrl game at our club.
It takes a lot to play first grade and it's a exclusive group.
So of these players who have failed to go on, we're at one stage targeted or nutured by our club in order to provide them the chance to play first grade.

 

[gallagher]

Bugger producing juniors IMO, where does it get us anyway? The club busts its arse unearthing and nurturing a budding star only for clubs like Roosters, Sharks, Broncos etc to pluck them from our grasp. Stuff that.
Where did the results/gratitude come from with "budding superstars" such as the 3 maggots that bailed on us last year? Zero results in the end.
Where did having the best crop of youngsters from 5/6 years ago who got to the GF in the NYC get our club? Nowhere. It is a waste of time, effort and money unearthing young talent when there are clubs with bottomless pits of money/suspect benefits who will pick the carcass clean of any player even remotely talented.
Cherry-pick proven performers from other clubs from here on in IMO.
The NRL refuse to acknowledge or reward clubs who produce their own talent so why should we be a supermarket for wealthy/dodgy clubs to shop at?
There 100% needs to be salary cap concessions for teams who produce their own.

Very good points

Absolutely spot on. Put all our money into the NRL set up.
Its been 31 years since Wests moved to Cambo.I wonder how much money has Wests, parra and Penrith out into the great western metropolitan areas in that time. For what? 3 premierships between them?