Kent on Hayne

[cktiger]

Pretty easy to work out the value of a player - put him on the open market.
If Parra can offer him a deal somewhere near the highest offer and stay under the cap then fine.
I'm pretty sure Newcastle and some others would have offered a lot more than $500K though.

 

[Harvey]

His family are in Forster. Hardly think Parramatta is the best geographical location to be close to them. The fact is most player managers are dodgy. I was looking interested to read that they get 6 % of contract, but 20% of TPA's that they organise, like Maloney's Keno deal.
Most professional sports now attract grubs as players, administrators and hangers on

 

[Fraze23]

I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.

 

[Munk]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

 

[happy_tiger]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

Seriously who would want Hayne

 

[Fraze23]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

Seriously who would want Hayne

I don't think that's the right question. It is how can they add a representative player to their roster for half his current value without having to lose any players? I don't want Hayne, but I wouldn't mind having Gutherson.

 

[Nelson]

I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.

Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving…The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...

 

[happy_tiger]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

Seriously who would want Hayne

I don't think that's the right question. It is how can they add a representative player to their roster for half his current value without having to lose any players? I don't want Hayne, but I wouldn't mind having Gutherson.

The rumours are already out there that they are releasing Bevan French

If they under the cap and salary cap auditors are happy what can anyone do

So maybe it is the right question , Parra were one of the red hot sides the back end of 2017 , probably the only club who really tested Melbourne in the semis , why would they risk further success signing the Hayne Refrain

 

[Munk]

I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.

Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving…The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...

You are completely missing the point we are making. He has told the NRL hed rather earn 500k than 1.2mill, with a team renowned for cap breaches recently and they said yep sounds good move forward, nothing questionable there.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

I don't see a problem with it. He was a speculative signing given his time away from the game and the Titans paid crazy money in part because they hoped he would be a crowd puller. He has utterly failed to deliver both on and off the field. As a player his value has plummeted and as a marketing tool his value has plummeted. He has however substantially enhanced his status as an actual tool.

You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?

He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens…

I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on…

Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Far out this sort of thing fires me up. I’m so sick of the inequity in the NRL. The draw is a joke, third party agreements are a joke, the salary cap is rorted, some teams are refereed differently to others….... and those charged with the responsibility to govern couldn’t grow a choko vine over a sh#%house. I’d say rant over but I doubt it is .......

Tiger Steve you are spot on mate…Our game is a shambles and the fans can see it which is why attendance numbers are down....It seems every marquee player who comes on the market is going to one of 3 Sydney clubs in the Sharks, Roosters or Parramatta...No other clubs gets a look in...
[/quote

Why is the game the shambles just because of perceived inequalities in the salary cap?

The salary cap is flawed, always has been, but generally speaking it works as a talent distribution system. There are always going to be individual situations that don't look consistent from the outside, but this is because those judgements are always somewhat subjective, same as all the other human components like refereeing, bunker, judiciary etc.

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

I'm annoyed by the Roosters situation with Cronk/Tedesco, but that's not salary cap as far as I can see, that's TPAs and successful clubs often getting their man. But that's sport, money talks and top clubs get their way more often than lower clubs, happens in every code.

We could scrap the cap or modify it and introduce a draft, but the reality is every club and manager will always be trying to test the limits of the cap rules, it's in their interests to do so. I don't see how this fall specifically on the NRL governance.

I can’t see a draft ever getting a start again in the NRL.
It could only work with the support of all players and clubs, as it’s a definite restraint of trade

 

[tig_prmz]

the salary cap is dodgier than the prince of nigeria offerring you $10M.

player managers, club admins, NRL admins and players all know that if one gets done, it'll open a whole bigger can of worms. everyone's gonna turn a blind eye to it, until one club pushes it one too far and the whole thing blows open.

NRL is the most amateur comp IMO.

 

[Munk]

You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?

He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens…

I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on…

Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?

I never complained about his pay for the Titans. When he re-signed to the NRL he was one of the premier names in Australian sport. Whats happened now is bollocks. If he went on the open market and 500k is all he got offered, so be it. Thats not what happened. He did a backdoor deal to supposedly rob himself of $700k. Im sorry but only the gullible would not see a problem with that.

 

[Nelson]

I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.

Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving…The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...

You are completely missing the point we are making. He has told the NRL hed rather earn 500k than 1.2mill, with a team renowned for cap breaches recently and they said yep sounds good move forward, nothing questionable there.

What do you want them to do? Say no you can't play because we think it sounds dodgy? As it stood at the moment he was released by the Titans he stood to make $0 in 2018\. What you're saying is the NRL should have told him no, you can't be paid $500K in 2018 instead of $0\. That would just land the NRL in legal trouble for restraint of trade. They can't punish players, they can only punish clubs and they can only do that by reference to a nominal market value (which is also probably questionable). For the reasons I've already given his market value is a far cry from what it once was.

I'm not missing any point. I think you're grossly overestimating what the NRL can do based on thinking something's dodgy when they have no evidence. Maybe they will investigate.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?

He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens…

I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on…

Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?

I get what you're saying, Christ I'd be filthy if we signed him, but it just stinks to high hell. It seems as though the NRL only want to follow their market rating system whenever it suits.

 

[innsaneink]

You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?

He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens…

I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on…

Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?

Its only funny if its the same people saying that…however in these situations thats not usually the case

 

[Tiger_Steve]

Kent made a huge point that I don’t think has been discussed in this thread. NRL own the Titans. NRL are trying to sell the Titans. NRL allowing Hayne to move to Eels takes him off Titans books. Buying the Titans just got a whole lot more attractive because their overheads are $1.2 million less. If something stinks - there it is!

 

[Munk]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

Seriously who would want Hayne

I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.

 

[happy_tiger]

What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.

Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.

Seriously who would want Hayne

I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.

Many are over the moon with Cleary's signing true ??

No coach has outstayed the Hayne Blame Game yet

 

[NT_Tiger]

Kent made a huge point that I don’t think has been discussed in this thread. NRL own the Titans. NRL are trying to sell the Titans. NRL allowing Hayne to move to Eels takes him off Titans books. Buying the Titans just got a whole lot more attractive because **their overheads are $1.2 million less**. If something stinks - there it is!

….and their oversized heads are 1 less.