Key to the lock..

C

crouching_tiger

New member
With Fulton back in 2010, another real contender IMO is going to challenge for the 13 jersey.
Well we all know Sheens likes to play his pack pretty laterally, slightly undersized but lean. In the past two off-seasons WT are seemingly trying to bolster their forward pack with added grunt and size whilst maintaining the "lightweight" intensity. So where does this really leave Fulton?
I personally like to think of Liam as a player with a good footy brain with good hands, a ballplayer who can shift a ball quickly, create the extra man in close or be used as a decoy to create an illusion of an extra man. In defence, his past records show, he has an extremely high workrate, which is one of the main attributes i believe a lock MUST possess to keep things tight.
2009 saw Sheens not having a player being able to claim ownership to this jersey, with about half a dozen players wearing the number 13 throughout the season. So THIS to me, is a bit of concern.
This, i believe creates instability through the "spine" of the team.
Many always mention the core numbers 1, 6, 7, 9…but i also believe the 13 needs to be added to this section where the players must almost always play together on a regular basis for cohesion.
I interpret a modern day 13 as a player with skill, who adds an extra dimension in attack and also a strong capable defender, and able to play both sides of the ruck. Almost a secondary heavyweight 5/8th to a team.
I have said it 100 times in the past 12 months and i will say it again....Ellis is the man for the role IMO or should be at least given a fair crack there. Although he had a steady debut season in the 2nd row, i believe his attack and ball skills are being totally wasted. His defence and commitment cannot be questioned as we all know, he hits hard and misses few.
The few times i have seen him misread is when he is defending wide and faster outside backs can wrong foot him when running angles, so would it not make sense to play him one man closer infield?
Only concern that i can see is if he has the stamina to lift his workrate up to another level with the added commitment to be used in attack.
Payten on the other hand possesses good ball skills, attacks well laterally, lacks a bit of punch to FIND a hole but can CREATE one by getting a ball away at the line, but IMO still lacks a bit of stamina due to his very solid frame.

So all in all, what i'm getting at is:
Fulton = perhaps lacking a bit of size for lock forward
Payten = perhaps lacking a bit of stamina for lock forward
Ellis = well balanced attributes for lock forward
 
I think that Ellis should stay in the 2nd row. Not sure if Fulton makes the backrow or not - he can play but lacks the size to dominate in defence.

Payten should be played as a prop. In the backrow he lacks the pace to make an impact. He is an in tight player with good defence & skills but average metres.

Ellis gets a back row spot. Heighington should also get one. The other players can fight for other possitions- Mataka, Fulton, Flanagan, Moors, Lui, Tupou, Trimarchi (if he is there) and any others that are up to it.
 
I'd like to see Ellis remain in the second row. As far as lock goes, Fulton will no doubt be strongly considered, although personally I'm not sure whether he is the best option there. Young Flanagan might get a look there at some stage but he's still an unknown. I think Heighno could make a good 13 and this would allow one of the other genuine backrowers in the Tigers ranks such as Dwyer and Mataka to get more of a run.

Really looking forward to the trials to see who Sheens throws in at 13\. Hopefully that will give us more of an idea.
 
@crouching_tiger said:
With Fulton back in 2010, another real contender IMO is going to challenge for the 13 jersey.
Well we all know Sheens likes to play his pack pretty laterally, slightly undersized but lean. In the past two off-seasons WT are seemingly trying to bolster their forward pack with added grunt and size whilst maintaining the "lightweight" intensity. So where does this really leave Fulton?
I personally like to think of Liam as a player with a good footy brain with good hands, a ballplayer who can shift a ball quickly, create the extra man in close or be used as a decoy to create an illusion of an extra man. In defence, his past records show, he has an extremely high workrate, which is one of the main attributes i believe a lock MUST possess to keep things tight.
2009 saw Sheens not having a player being able to claim ownership to this jersey, with about half a dozen players wearing the number 13 throughout the season. So THIS to me, is a bit of concern.
This, i believe creates instability through the "spine" of the team.
Many always mention the core numbers 1, 6, 7, 9…but i also believe the 13 needs to be added to this section where the players must almost always play together on a regular basis for cohesion.
I interpret a modern day 13 as a player with skill, who adds an extra dimension in attack and also a strong capable defender, and able to play both sides of the ruck. Almost a secondary heavyweight 5/8th to a team.
I have said it 100 times in the past 12 months and i will say it again....Ellis is the man for the role IMO or should be at least given a fair crack there. Although he had a steady debut season in the 2nd row, i believe his attack and ball skills are being totally wasted. His defence and commitment cannot be questioned as we all know, he hits hard and misses few.
The few times i have seen him misread is when he is defending wide and faster outside backs can wrong foot him when running angles, so would it not make sense to play him one man closer infield?
Only concern that i can see is if he has the stamina to lift his workrate up to another level with the added commitment to be used in attack.
Payten on the other hand possesses good ball skills, attacks well laterally, lacks a bit of punch to FIND a hole but can CREATE one by getting a ball away at the line, but IMO still lacks a bit of stamina due to his very solid frame.

So all in all, what i'm getting at is:
Fulton = perhaps lacking a bit of size for lock forward
Payten = perhaps lacking a bit of stamina for lock forward
Ellis = well balanced attributes for lock forward
Click to expand...

If you have a look at the best locks running around at the moment, Stagg, Johnson, Todd Lowrie, Parker, Gallen, Harrison, most of them do a considerable amount of defensive work for their team. I'm not sure if putting Ellis in that position would be benefical for the team. Sure he could make 45 to 50 tackles in a game, no worries, but more offen than not that would be it. Perhaps if Folkes can get his fittness up to another level, ellis' strong running game would not suffer. We NEED to have eliis standing in tackles and offloading in order for our flamboyant attack to work at its best. 2nd phase is crucial. Fulton is the man for lock, makes plenty of lackles and has a big motor. He should get 1st shot IMO.
 
'm so excited for this year! So many good options available for so many positions.

I'd like to see Liam given first shot, like you said, CT, good footy brain, does a lot of work in defence -

and he reads Benji well. :sign:
 
I think Ellis at lock with permission to roam = danger for other teams poping up ever where and hes always got his hands free for an ofload if we can get people running off him = line breaks galore. Then you have payten and heighnington in th
 
I think Ellis at lock with permission to roam = danger for other teams poping up ever where and hes always got his hands free for an ofload if we can get people running off him = line breaks galore.
 
in the trials, let Gareth Ellis spend some time at game at lock.
we all know his defence is very good, lets see how his attack is from lock.
if you don't give him an opportunity, we won't know.
 
if anything happens to marshall through injury, then id like to see ayshford move to 5/8,and maybe give davis or brown a run in the centres?
 
@tiger rat said:
if anything happens to marshall through injury, then id like to see ayshford move to 5/8,and maybe give davis or brown a run in the centres?
Click to expand...

HUH??????????
 
LOL…not broke..that explains why Sheens has whored out the 13 jersey for the past 4 seasons..
You'd be the first one to sook if the WT miss out on finals footy again..
 
Again a theory that has merit in my eyes. I have no doubt Ellis could be quite dangerous being able to roam. Cant hurt to give it a go in the trials. But as some may remember my theory, we must not have players in the backrow who cant hit a hole. Ill sound like a broken record to those who know me, but our attack is sooooooo much better when Benji and Robbie have backrowers who can hit the right line. This is where the youngsters really outdo our older guys. Liam can run good lines too and has a great combination with Benji, so he could play a part there.
 
@king sirro said:
Again a theory that has merit in my eyes. I have no doubt Ellis could be quite dangerous being able to roam. Cant hurt to give it a go in the trials. But as some may remember my theory, **we must not have players in the backrow who cant hit a hole**. Ill sound like a broken record to those who know me, but our attack is sooooooo much better when Benji and Robbie have backrowers who can hit the right line. This is where the youngsters really outdo our older guys. Liam can run good lines too and has a great combination with Benji, so he could play a part there.
Click to expand...

My opinion may differ here. Heighington's use is like a makeshift battering ram to help take the load off front rowers. Payten is a different kettle of fish. He is usually able to draw defenders in his hit-ups, pop a ball, and create an overlap. WT's brand of football does not necessarily need too many hole hitters in close as most of the damage is created OUTSIDE the halves. Most WT backrow line-breaks occur near where the centres are situated(wide running) where Ellis and Dwyer had a bit of success last year. The suggestion of moving him infield is going to create hole hitting closer to the ruck, which is what is needed now IMO with the backline starting to find their mojo.
 
@crouching_tiger said:
LOL…not broke..that explains why Sheens has whored out the 13 jersey for the past 4 seasons..
You'd be the first one to sook if the WT miss out on finals footy again..
Click to expand...

Try reading the entire post, namely the last 6 words.
Weaken one spot to shore up another…the general consensus is this is a foolish move.
 
Glad you now comprehend.
You dont listen, watch or read rugby league?
All the respected commentators say you shouldnt weaken one possy to strengthen another.
I might go with them instead of you if thats OK?
If you for once just gave the _-trying to impress people_ - a rest, you'd actually come out with some valid points.
Foresight and an untried opinion are two very different things, just my opinion.
 
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