Key to the lock..

Of course I make you laugh, I know nothing where you know it all.

Nice to see you remember what <big>Ive</big> said a year ago.
I dont remember what you said an hour ago.
 
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.
 
@king sirro said:
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. **IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened**, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.
Click to expand...

Of course, ie: #14 strengthening #7 (Morris)

Joke wasnt it?

But in this case we are talking about 2nd row & lock…very similar imo
 
I think rhino should be given the lock position with ellis in the 2nd row. To me I see fulton as a playmaker in the future so I would like to see him coming off the bench for motlzen.
 
@king sirro said:
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.
Click to expand...

I'm going with Buckets here….Backrow is Backrow......With Galea gone..Ellis is one of the few we have that actually hits hard and stings in defence....Why stuff with that.....In attack he owns the left side with Benji, Lawrence and Tuiaki....again if it ain't broke don't fix it......

The key here is Liam......a terrier in defence with ballplaying ability and a more developed kicking game to take some pressure of Benji and Farah in the 13 jersey will do me fine......
 
@Geo. said:
@king sirro said:
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.

I'm going with Buckets here….Backrow is Backrow......With Galea gone..Ellis is one of the few we have that actually hits hard and stings in defence....Why stuff with that.....In attack he owns the left side with Benji, Lawrence and Tuiaki....again if it ain't broke don't fix it......

The key here is Liam......a terrier in defence with ballplaying ability and a more developed kicking game to take some pressure of Benji and Farah in the 13 jersey will do me fine......
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Did both of u just skim over my post? It was about the general comment of never weakening another position. Read my last line.
 
Yeah I did read your last line…...... but my point is you DON'T weaken a strength to strengthen a weakness....Look what happened when Gallant was injured and Moltzen was moved out of the 7 and back to fullback.........

I'ts our front row that needs attention anyway and strengthening........not the backrow or lock positions IMO they ARE well covered.....
 
@king sirro said:
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.
Click to expand...

It is a load of BS and cliched. Almost as bad as the "fix the defence and the attack will take care of itself" BS line.
When you talk about positioning, you need to consider the two 2nd rowers + lock as a conglomerate to get an overall strongest balance and utilising their natural playing attributes.
FACTS:
The club has struggled with finding a lock to secure the 13 jersey for SEVERAL years. So how is THIS AREA not broke??
Even when Fulton WAS at the WT, he couldn't secure the 13 jersey.
Ellis has a proven better attacking record/history playing lock.
Galea, the club's hardest SQUARE-ON defender excelled at lock in 2009.
The WT forward pack is LARGER/HEAVIER in size since Fulton has been away.

Ellis has played even BETTER at Lock in the ESL than he has done since arriving to the NRL. His stats will show this. Anyone who has watched him play enough ESL will ALREADY know this.
 
Most of Ellis's last season in the ESL was spent in the centres covering for injury over there….....dont think he played much loose forward for Leeds.....On top of that how many awards has the bloke won for SECONDROWER of the Year....
 
I would rather Liam defending around in the middle behind the markers. Gareth can definately hit hard and he makes tackles stick but he made a few errors in defence last year when he was behind the markers when the other team made quick play the balls. I would rather Fulton there tackling his arse off. Lian might not make alot of big hits but he gets them down and does his job. Liam should also be used a bit like a second five eighth in attack. Liam at Lock, Gareth & Chris in the Second Row IMO.
 
Well as cruting tiger would know coach Sheens likes to play his 2nd rowers 4 in left & right side & use the lock in the middle with 8 9 &10 so who do we think should be 13?
 
@crouching_tiger said:
@king sirro said:
Personally i hate that old line of "never weaken one position to strengthen another", i think its a bulls…...... line. IMO it all depends on what positions are being strengthened and weakened, some positions are more important than others so sometimes it has to be done to give the team its best possible balance. Not saying this is the case regarding moving Ellis to 13, but its certainly the case in sometimes.

It is a load of BS and cliched. Almost as bad as the "fix the defence and the attack will take care of itself" BS line.
When you talk about positioning, you need to consider the two 2nd rowers + lock as a conglomerate to get an overall strongest balance and utilising their natural playing attributes.
FACTS:
The club has struggled with finding a lock to secure the 13 jersey for SEVERAL years. So how is THIS AREA not broke??
Even when Fulton WAS at the WT, he couldn't secure the 13 jersey.
Ellis has a proven better attacking record/history playing lock.
Galea, the club's hardest SQUARE-ON defender excelled at lock in 2009.
The WT forward pack is LARGER/HEAVIER in size since Fulton has been away.

Ellis has played even BETTER at Lock in the ESL than he has done since arriving to the NRL. His stats will show this. Anyone who has watched him play enough ESL will ALREADY know this.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Agree is great in attack, his defence compared to Liam average, it doesn't appear he play lock looking for your avenue for stats.
http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2008&hp1=469&hs2=2009&hp2=1711&stat=tries&season=2009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
could be worth a go, I am awfully concerned about switching players around though, had enough of that over the last few years, pick the best players for each position and leave them there.
 
dear oh dear. Just when i wish Sheens wasnt coach i hear other peoples suggestions and im glad that some others arent!

Ellis was the Dally M Second Rower of the year…..yeah....lets move him to Lock. Good idea guys.
Payton is not a lock. Fullstop.
Fulton shouldnt be in the team at all.
Heighington isnt a lock either.
Ayshford....please please PLEASE dont make him a lock Sheens. He has a chance at being a great Centre if given time.

In my opinion, the Lock position is one that might end up someone like Dwyer
 
its just the way the game has gone these days , its getting more and more like touch footy,anyone can fill in any where as long as someone is there to cover that position..too many interchanges, this rule needs to be looked at.i liked the days when if you came off you stayed off. Do you agree the interchange needs to be looked at ?
 
Yep…..definately reduce the interchange to 8 preferably 6.....

Once you have been interchanged once If you come off again that's it...........

For those with longer memories go back to the day when a reserve grader would be added to the bench after playing earlier.....
 
@Geo. said:
Yep…..definately reduce the interchange to 8 preferably 6.....

Once you have been interchanged once If you come off again that's it...........

**For those with longer memories go back to the day when a reserve grader would be added to the bench after playing earlier....**.
Click to expand...

thats the thing i really went to see brought back. I think u should only be allowed 3 fresh reserves and the 4th spot is taken up by an under 20's player backing up…........5 players from the 20's can sit on the bench and whoever is used may depend on injuries etc. Its a great way to give them a taste.
 
I agree with Crouching Tiger on how important the 13 is to the 1,6,7 and 9, but Ellis and Heighno need to stay exactly where they were in 2009.

Liam time at lock for the Tigers was when the whole Rugby League world considered us a lightweight pack. It looked something like this in most parts. We struggled big time up front for go forward.
Gibbs
Farah
Payten
Heighno
Halatau
Fulton
We struggled big time up front for go forward which make the locks job pretty much nothing more than another hitup backrower, which is where Fultons frame was exposed. Your lock shouldn't be taking the 2nd or 3rd hitup like he often had too.

Now in context of the likely pack this year, i think Fultons mobility and workrate balances the pack out nicely.
Cayless
Farah
Galloway
Ellis
Heighno
Fulton

A well balanced pack imo is two metre eating props, 1 rangey backrower and one battering ram backrower with a lock who offers a high defensive workrate (lateral defense very important), some ball skills and speed. The only other player who fits this bill is possibly Dwyer, but he needs alot time off the bench before starting a game at lock. Ayshford and Lawrence could play there but we don't want them moved from centre. So yep Fulton for mine.

I agree with Crouching Tiger on how important the 13 is to the 1,6,7 and 9, but Ellis and Heighno need to stay exactly where they were in 2009.
 
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