Killing off suburban rugby league tradition a mistake

@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

fans ARE voting with their feet. That's why ANZ averages have increased from 16k to around 22k in the last 5-7 years.

the NRL is using the 'right venue' strategy (or whatever its called). They're trying to transition fans into ANZ, SFS etc. and minimise those 10k crowds at ANZ. Eventually, when the NRL averages 20-25k we will only need a few games at the suburban grounds, if any.

25-30k at ANZ is a perfectly fine atmosphere imo. 40k+ is great!

Fact is, facilities and transport to many of these relics are beyond poor and modern stadiums are immensely better which is why most professional leagues are using them rather than suburban grounds. Add in the obscene amounts of money available there and its worrying we haven't moved there sooner…
 
@mike said:
@innsaneink said:
@mike said:
@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

**I disagree. It won't appeal to some and that's the issue. Better facilities will appeal to a lot more**. IMO I believe the fact that we have 3 home grounds, 2 of which are sub-standard suburban grounds, hurts our membership numbers. Time to move on and grow.

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I guess you missed the poll from the article I included in the OP where 80% disagree with this.

I see the reasoning for it, but Im not sure our game is right for it.
It might work for other codes, in other states…but I dont think its our fit. Our game, Its built on tribalism, the working class game...thats its foundations.
You take that away youre left with some corporates who are there for other reasons...the very essence that made the game what is is will finally be lost.

I didn't miss the poll. Polls like this mean nothing, bums on seats is what counts. What we are doing now is not working and hasn't for a long time. It's time to change. Keep doing the same thing as we have been and expecting different results is insanity personified. It's time to look forward and see what can be done, not look back and wish it was different but do nothing about it.

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Haha
The poll means nothing but we'll get 45,000 members if ''the environment is right"
We have 5500 ANZ members now.
You accuse others of having a defeatist attitude yet use vague pollie speak as part of your argument
We are light years from 45000 members unless we give them away for free, and then,…whats the point of that?
 
@pHyR3 said:
@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

fans ARE voting with their feet. That's why ANZ averages have increased from 16k to around 22k in the last 5-7 years.

the NRL is using the 'right venue' strategy (or whatever its called). They're trying to transition fans into ANZ, SFS etc. and minimise those 10k crowds at ANZ. Eventually, when the NRL averages 20-25k we will only need a few games at the suburban grounds, if any.

25-30k at ANZ is a perfectly fine atmosphere imo. 40k+ is great!

Fact is, facilities and transport to many of these relics are beyond poor and modern stadiums are immensely better which is why most professional leagues are using them rather than suburban grounds. **Add in the obscene amounts of money available there and its worrying we haven't moved there sooner…**

Yep, and when they have every weekend catered for, when every team is playing out of these grounds…do you really think the same money will be on offer??
 
@pHyR3 said:
@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

fans ARE voting with their feet. That's why ANZ averages have increased from 16k to around 22k in the last 5-7 years.

the NRL is using the 'right venue' strategy (or whatever its called). They're trying to transition fans into ANZ, SFS etc. and minimise those 10k crowds at ANZ. Eventually, when the NRL averages 20-25k we will only need a few games at the suburban grounds, if any.

25-30k at ANZ is a perfectly fine atmosphere imo. 40k+ is great!

Fact is, facilities and transport to many of these relics are beyond poor and modern stadiums are immensely better which is why most professional leagues are using them rather than suburban grounds. Add in the obscene amounts of money available there and its worrying we haven't moved there sooner…

Well said. X2

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@innsaneink said:
@pHyR3 said:
@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

fans ARE voting with their feet. That's why ANZ averages have increased from 16k to around 22k in the last 5-7 years.

the NRL is using the 'right venue' strategy (or whatever its called). They're trying to transition fans into ANZ, SFS etc. and minimise those 10k crowds at ANZ. Eventually, when the NRL averages 20-25k we will only need a few games at the suburban grounds, if any.

25-30k at ANZ is a perfectly fine atmosphere imo. 40k+ is great!

Fact is, facilities and transport to many of these relics are beyond poor and modern stadiums are immensely better which is why most professional leagues are using them rather than suburban grounds. **Add in the obscene amounts of money available there and its worrying we haven't moved there sooner…**

Yep, and when they have every weekend catered for, when every team is playing out of these grounds…do you really think the same money will be on offer??

even if they offer us $10 to play there it's better than losing 10s of thousands playing at LO and CS
 
As said earlier - you are not going to get 45,000 against out of Sydney teams.

You can have all the free transport, good seats, good meals etc. as you like but you will have a giant cave with 15-20,000 in there and no atmosphere.

If you ain't got atmosphere - you might as well be home on the lounge.

It may be the way of the future but it doesn't mean it is good.
 
The NRL IMO has stopped caring about die hard fans. They know that no matter what they do, the die hard fans are here to stay.
\
\
They want to appeal to a bigger mass. By taking games to bigger stadiums, it allows them to do that.

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@innsaneink said:
@pHyR3 said:
@innsaneink said:
So if the NRL & the State Govt propose moves that fans arent happy with, and those fans vote with their feet…its the fans holding the game back?

They keep saying this is a business, and the game and where its played is the product.
They have to make the product appealing...this wont appeal to many, and theyll take their business elsewhere

fans ARE voting with their feet. That's why ANZ averages have increased from 16k to around 22k in the last 5-7 years.

the NRL is using the 'right venue' strategy (or whatever its called). They're trying to transition fans into ANZ, SFS etc. and minimise those 10k crowds at ANZ. Eventually, when the NRL averages 20-25k we will only need a few games at the suburban grounds, if any.

25-30k at ANZ is a perfectly fine atmosphere imo. 40k+ is great!

Fact is, facilities and transport to many of these relics are beyond poor and modern stadiums are immensely better which is why most professional leagues are using them rather than suburban grounds. **Add in the obscene amounts of money available there and its worrying we haven't moved there sooner…**

Yep, and when they have every weekend catered for, when every team is playing out of these grounds…do you really think the same money will be on offer??

I would say more money would be on offer as corporate dollars will be in a more confined and concentrated environment with exposure to more fans especially in double header scenarios with ground advertising on field and stadia this will be boom times .
 
@mike said:
@innsaneink said:
@mike said:
@innsaneink said:
I disagree. It won't appeal to some and that's the issue. Better facilities will appeal to a lot more. IMO I believe the fact that we have 3 home grounds, 2 of which are sub-standard suburban grounds, hurts our membership numbers. Time to move on and grow.

_Posted using RoarFEED V.4_

I guess you missed the poll from the article I included in the OP where 80% disagree with this.

I see the reasoning for it, but Im not sure our game is right for it.
It might work for other codes, in other states…but I dont think its our fit. Our game, Its built on tribalism, the working class game...thats its foundations.
You take that away youre left with some corporates who are there for other reasons...the very essence that made the game what is is will finally be lost.

I didn't miss the poll. Polls like this mean nothing, bums on seats is what counts. What we are doing now is not working and hasn't for a long time. It's time to change. Keep doing the same thing as we have been and expecting different results is insanity personified. It's time to look forward and see what can be done, not look back and wish it was different but do nothing about it.

_Posted using RoarFEED V.4_

Haha
The poll means nothing but we'll get 45,000 members if ''the environment is right"
We have 5500 ANZ members now.
You accuse others of having a defeatist attitude yet use vague pollie speak as part of your argument
We are light years from 45000 members unless we give them away for free, and then,…whats the point of that?

When did I ever say anything about 45,000 members? It's bums on seats and yes we should be trying to fill lager stadiums and we can. If you want to discuss membership don't kid yourself if you think three home grounds are not hurting Wests Tigers membership. Wests Tigers are already a club without an identifiable home. ANZ membership @ 5,500 is already the majority of membership. This is what we need to promote. We need to be looking forward and like it or not bigger stadiums with great facilities and transport are the future. Time to move forward not back.
 
The AFL has nine teams in Melbourne went through this agonising change between 1956 and 2005\. The year of the move from their "local" ground and their 2014 average crowds are:-

MCG Teams:-
Carlton 2005 37,000
Collingwood 1999 52,000
Hawthorn 1991 39,000
Melbourne 1956 31,000
Richmond 1964 38,000

Docklands Teams:-
Carlton 2005 37,000
Essendon 1991 44,000
North Melbourne 1985 30,000
St. Kilda 1992 27,000
Western Bulldogs 1999 24,000

The AFL fans are just as fanatical as the NRL fans in Sydney, but they are playing all their games at quality stadiums and drawing good attendances. Why won't this happen for the NRL in Sydney?
 
ANZ is a poor ground to look at our great game, to say otherwise is ridiculous. My family are part of the five and a half thousand odd members that either have a seat as part of an extended LO and/or CSS package, or solely at the stadium. That leaves some 4250 members that have no connection with the stadium, despite the ridiculously cheap and highly publicised options available.

Some say that the viewing experience of watching the game live on a big screen is keeping a lot of fans away. No doubt that it is, but hey, we spend half our time at the ground looking at the big screen from our away seats up on level four, as the players are that far away when at the southern end, that we may as well be looking out the window of a 747\. Our Gold home seats are on a slightly sloped tier, at a low elevation and still too far from the sideline, despite not being far from the fence.

As an earlier poster stated, the AFL got it's way, with our inept politicians pandering to their post olympics stadium re-configuration requests that does not suit our (NSW) primary sports, and now the state government is looking to shaft us again.

Let's get real here fellow supporters, with the current match allocation heavily favoring ANZ for a decade, we are light years from turning people away from our games. Sure the crowds have been enough to overflow suburban grounds, with a great crowd and good atmosphere there for the Parra game, but that is far from the norm, as everything aligned for that to occur.

The perfect weather, easter show double up, time slot, public holiday, reciprocal ticketing, ladder positions and form, free rail transport, together with the closeness of the contest, allowed the match to reach the level of atmosphere that our other home grounds, and particularly Leichhardt, can provide with only seventeen odd thousand.

The club also makes MUCH MORE PROFIT from a decent crowd at LO or CSS than it gets from ANZ. Mayer said as such earlier this year and I believe the figures are on this forum, for those that care to check, amongst the kerfuffle following the low Campbo attendance, from which we apparently still made a reasonable profit. Even with poor player facilities and general amenities for the public being way below the standard of some, the players, almost to a man, and the MAJORITY of fans, love coming to the suburban grounds and soaking up the atmosphere that only they can provide for an average game.

A self raising plastic seat offers little when it's location is relatively low and far from the action.
 
@formerguest said:
The club also makes MUCH MORE PROFIT from a decent crowd at LO or CSS than it gets from ANZ. Mayer said as such earlier this year

i dont remember this but happy to be proven wrong.

i do remember mayer saying that they cannot keep playing at campbelltown "at a loss".

as for the rest of your post- imagine going to a sport which you dont know much about and rocking up at a place with no proper toilets, food or accessibility- these are the people that the NRL needs to appeal to in order for it to keep moving forward.

im just pulling these rough figures out of nowhere but what's better 15K for $40 per head or 50K at $20? plus the extra that ANZ gives you for playing there.

suburban grounds will always be a heritage of rugby league and where it originated from. brookie, leichardt etc are simply not up to the standard to host regular games. however, i have no issues with taking heritage games there with overpriced tickets.
 
@formerguest said:
ANZ is a poor ground to look at our great game, to say otherwise is ridiculous. My family are part of the five and a half thousand odd members that either have a seat as part of an extended LO and/or CSS package, or solely at the stadium. That leaves some 4250 members that have no connection with the stadium, despite the ridiculously cheap and highly publicised options available.

Some say that the viewing experience of watching the game live on a big screen is keeping a lot of fans away. No doubt that it is, but hey, we spend half our time at the ground looking at the big screen from our away seats up on level four, as the players are that far away when at the southern end, that we may as well be looking out the window of a 747\. Our Gold home seats are on a slightly sloped tier, at a low elevation and still too far from the sideline, despite not being far from the fence.

As an earlier poster stated, the AFL got it's way, with our inept politicians pandering to their post olympics stadium re-configuration requests that does not suit our (NSW) primary sports, and now the state government is looking to shaft us again.

Let's get real here fellow supporters, with the current match allocation heavily favoring ANZ for a decade, we are light years from turning people away from our games. Sure the crowds have been enough to overflow suburban grounds, with a great crowd and good atmosphere there for the Parra game, but that is far from the norm, as everything aligned for that to occur.

The perfect weather, easter show double up, time slot, public holiday, reciprocal ticketing, ladder positions and form, free rail transport, together with the closeness of the contest, allowed the match to reach the level of atmosphere that our other home grounds, and particularly Leichhardt, can provide with only seventeen odd thousand.

The club also makes MUCH MORE PROFIT from a decent crowd at LO or CSS than it gets from ANZ. Mayer said as such earlier this year and I believe the figures are on this forum, for those that care to check, amongst the kerfuffle following the low Campbo attendance, from which we apparently still made a reasonable profit. Even with poor player facilities and general amenities for the public being way below the standard of some, the players, almost to a man, and the MAJORITY of fans, love coming to the suburban grounds and soaking up the atmosphere that only they can provide for an average game.

A self raising plastic seat offers little when it's location is relatively low and far from the action.

X 2 … As a LO tragic it would be a dark day if grounds like LO,CSS,Brooky were dumped venues. LO has soul,tribal radition,history,hill,ordinary seating,no parking etc etc but its a place that other teams hate coming to unlike the soulless concrete expanse that is homebush which has any number of so called home teams.
 
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/rabbitohs-show-why-you-should-try-this-at-home-20140425-zqzf1.html

gotta love 17k crowds at leichardt on a sunday arvo against another Sydney team….

the NRL knows they need to expand their potential target audience and it wont happen playing out of crappy grounds like Leichardt, Belmore, Redfern and Kogarah.
 
@tig_prmz said:
@formerguest said:
The club also makes MUCH MORE PROFIT from a decent crowd at LO or CSS than it gets from ANZ. Mayer said as such earlier this year

i dont remember this but happy to be proven wrong.

i do remember mayer saying that they cannot keep playing at campbelltown "at a loss".

as for the rest of your post- imagine going to a sport which you dont know much about and rocking up at a place with no proper toilets, food or accessibility- these are the people that the NRL needs to appeal to in order for it to keep moving forward.

im just pulling these rough figures out of nowhere but what's better 15K for $40 per head or 50K at $20? plus the extra that ANZ gives you for playing there.

suburban grounds will always be a heritage of rugby league and where it originated from. brookie, leichardt etc are simply not up to the standard to host regular games. however, i have no issues with taking heritage games there with overpriced tickets.

I understand your points about bringing new people into the game, and from memory, you are of Indian heritage. As an Australian whose roots come from an Asian culture, you are part of the targeted future audience of this game, your voice carries resonance in the NRL corridors.

You are also already part of the rugby league community, being by far the largest section of sports followers in this state, and that is the point of this thread. A poll showing that eighty percent of the fourteen hundred people questioned prefer a particular option, may not be totally representative, but it sure is an overwhelming response that indicates support levels way above a clear majority.

Basically, the government should be doing, within reason, what it's constituents want. I am pretty sure decent toilet facilities would fall into that. :slight_smile:
 
The best stadium for watching football is Suncorp

All NRL stadiums should be based on its design

Even on the top tier it is a great stadium to watch footy
 
@happy tiger said:
The best stadium for watching football is Suncorp

All NRL stadiums should be based on its design

Even on the top tier it is a great stadium to watch footy

ive never been but from all reports you are 100% right. sounds amazing, decent food. great facilities, good location and designed for rectangular sports.
 
No disrespect to anyone except news.com.au but most Indians or uni students my age don't look at crap on that website. The poll IMO most likely consists of die hard middle aged men like most on this forum. As I said previously, you guys are hooked to the NRL and I doubt even if we move to ANZ permanently, most of you won't stop buying your memberships.

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@happy tiger said:
The best stadium for watching football is Suncorp

All NRL stadiums should be based on its design

Even on the top tier it is a great stadium to watch footy

First row, bottom tier, perfect.
 
@happy tiger said:
The best stadium for watching football is Suncorp

All NRL stadiums should be based on its design

Even on the top tier it is a great stadium to watch footy

There already is a stadium with a capacity of 80k and two others with almost half that capacity in sydney or sydney west. I doubt there will be or there should be money spent on building another one in sydney for the sole purpose of rugby league.

Being a die hard sports supporter of big bash, NRL and to an extent afl/soccer as well- I would rather us spent the money on education/health care than build another stadium.

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