Knights Tigers comparison

[tigger19]

Ok decided to compare these two teams for a few reasons. Firstly Tigers beat Newcastle twice this year, yet Newcastle have locked up 7th place and a finals berth. Kalyn Ponga was missing
in both of those losses, West’s were easily on top for both matches though, dropping off for periods which bought the end results closer.
Looking at both squads, Newcastle’s forwards look great on paper yet Tigers pack got the money on both occasions. The backlines for both teams lack some class and, with knights missing Ponga, Pearce and Best for extended periods, an argument can be made, Newcastle could of won more games and finished higher.
Their are many similarities between both of these teams, the most important dissimilarity is the ladder results. Let’s look at the stats for 2021 with one round to go.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

More players with leadership qualities and experience plus a superstar on their roster makes all the difference.

 

[tigger19]

Knights Tigers
Pts scored 406 500
Pts agt 536 676
Av pt scored 17 22
Av pt against 23 29
Tries 72 87
Tries conced 96 120
Try assists 65 71
Completion %80 78
Tackles 7388 6758
Missed tack. 631 755
Tackle eff 89.8 87.9
Ptb speed 3.43 3.51 Sec
Runs 3828 3752
Run metres 33719 31839
Run m conc 34596 33606
Linebreaks 95 106
Linebreaks co131 147
Tackle busts 597 676
Offloads 201 288
Offloads con 206 198
Goals 58 76
Goal kick % 69 79
Kicks 484 438
Kick metres 13136 11325
Kick ret mtr. 2286 1529
Gen play pass 2074 2402
Errors 225 238
Pen awarded 110 109
Pen conceded 79 104
Sin bins 5 5

Some interesting stats, Tigers scoring more points and generally have better stats in Attack except for total run metres.
Play the ball speed, completions and errors are similar, Knights seemed to have played a more conservative style of footy (less offloads and general play passing)which is most likely because they have been missing their playmakers. Knights also way ahead in kick metres and kick return metres. Missed tackles + penalties conceded tigers are way out ahead, which reaffirms that defence,discipline and kicking game are the main areas the team needs to improve, thoughts guys?

 

[Needaname]

It’s interesting. Our current predicament could be compared to the Knights 2015/ 2016 / 2017 seasons (all wooden spoon seasons mind you). a lot of similarities with the younger roster debuted out of necessity and a fair bit of experience moved on over the past few years. Kurt Gidley, Chris Houston moved to UK and a few others retired.
Knights over the next few years struggled to land a blow in the player market and looked to rebuild their pathways / junior retention whilst also recruiting the best young talent to kick start their first grade revival.
Ponga was announced end of 2016 to be signing with Knights starting 2018. They did try to get him to the club for 2017 but we’re unsuccessful, however being a part of the Cowboys squad in and around Thurston and Morgan only served to benefit the Knights recruit.
After the Ponga signing all of a sudden they started to look more attractive to new recruits. The signing of Ponga started to change the perception of the knights and generated talk around the revival of the club and making them competitive again.
I believe this year we signed our ‘Ponga’ in Laurie who also had the benefit of being exposed to a really competitive squad in the years prior influenced by young and old stars (Cleary, Maloney)
FWIW I’m not comparing the class of the two players, more so the role kayln played in building up the knights prospects. It’s a similar approach we have taken with the club going out, seeking a new answer to one of our weakest points of our / their spine and looking for the best young fullback not playing first grade.

By the Start of 2018 they had recruited Ponga, Pearce, Watson and already had Barnett since 2016. They had debuted young guns Fitzgibbon and the Safiti Twins as well as the reliable Josh King, all of whom are featuring regularly in the last two seasons in which they have just rejoined the top 8.

It’s quite remarkable that the knights have made the finals both years given they’ve had only halve their squad available both years.

It was noticeable in the pre season how much a new feel Adam O’Brien brought to the knights over the preseason of 2019.
He added a real steel to the side. No better example is our round 2 game last year and the round 3 game after the resumption where they drew with Penrith whilst having a young hooker on debut make 79 tackles after losing Brailey the week before and losing Pearce and Watson during the first half of that match.

 

[boonboon]

Knights have a much better roster but a worse coach.

Our biggest issue is defence and in particular our right side backrower/five eight combo has been horriffic and our centres ineffective in defence made clear by Cheee being our best centre for the yr.

Our attack can do the job but we need more depth in our forwards and quality on our edges.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

It’s interesting. Our current predicament could be compared to the Knights 2015/ 2016 / 2017 seasons (all wooden spoon seasons mind you). a lot of similarities with the younger roster debuted out of necessity and a fair bit of experience moved on over the past few years. Kurt Gidley, Chris Houston moved to UK and a few others retired.
Knights over the next few years struggled to land a blow in the player market and looked to rebuild their pathways / junior retention whilst also recruiting the best young talent to kick start their first grade revival.
Ponga was announced end of 2016 to be signing with Knights starting 2018. They did try to get him to the club for 2017 but we’re unsuccessful, however being a part of the Cowboys squad in and around Thurston and Morgan only served to benefit the Knights recruit.
After the Ponga signing all of a sudden they started to look more attractive to new recruits. The signing of Ponga started to change the perception of the knights and generated talk around the revival of the club and making them competitive again.
I believe this year we signed our ‘Ponga’ in Laurie who also had the benefit of being exposed to a really competitive squad in the years prior influenced by young and old stars (Cleary, Maloney)
FWIW I’m not comparing the class of the two players, more so the role kayln played in building up the knights prospects. It’s a similar approach we have taken with the club going out, seeking a new answer to one of our weakest points of our / their spine and looking for the best young fullback not playing first grade.

By the Start of 2018 they had recruited Ponga, Pearce, Watson and already had Barnett since 2016. They had debuted young guns Fitzgibbon and the Safiti Twins as well as the reliable Josh King, all of whom are featuring regularly in the last two seasons in which they have just rejoined the top 8.

It’s quite remarkable that the knights have made the finals both years given they’ve had only halve their squad available both years.

It was noticeable in the pre season how much a new feel Adam O’Brien brought to the knights over the preseason of 2019.
He added a real steel to the side. No better example is our round 2 game last year and the round 3 game after the resumption where they drew with Penrith whilst having a young hooker on debut make 79 tackles after losing Brailey the week before and losing Pearce and Watson during the first half of that match.

true point Madge is much better coach than Adam O'Brien

 

[innsaneink]

Do the Knights often look lost, like all their players just met that day, like they don't know what they're doing with the ball, do they get in each other's way as often as we do?

To say we can do it in attack isn't really accurate imo... It needs as much work as the defence

 

[Rowdy12]

I read the knights have played 5 less games against top 8 sides then us

They also have 7 guys who have recently play Origin

It’s a joke that they aren’t competing against the top 6 every time they play

 

[Telltails]

Newcastle were rubbish while Pearce and Pongha were out. Since they have been back they have performed well against the mid /lower table teams but a class below the top 6. Mitchell Pearce cops a lot of heat on here but if you can't see the difference he makes in it that team you are not looking.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

It’s beyond frustrating that average sides like Newcastle and the Sharks can often slip into the finals, yet our club can’t on one measly occasion. It’s beyond pathetic.

 

[TigerSJ]

Roster is the difference- a couple of game changing players and some solid quality consistent forwards. Put this together with a group that shows more character to win, more effort and desire to compete and that adds up to the extra couple of wins needed.

 

[Geo]

Easy answer the Draw..

When you play more games against the bottom sides than the Top ..you finish in the middle..

 

[tigger19]

Tigers have played 14 games against the top 8 teams including knights twice, knights have played 11 times against the top teams, knights have beaten warriors twice, sharks twice, raiders twice and upset manly. All of those wins bar one they won with only either Pearce available or Ponga available not with both players on the field. The most impressive win for Newcastle would be defeating a close to full strength manly team without both Ponga and Pearce.

 

[tigger19]

I think one thing that sticks out more is the kick metres and kick returns to a lesser extent. Knights kick metres has been far superior to the tigers even with Pearce missing a good chunk.

 

[diedpretty]

Easy answer the Draw..

When you play more games against the bottom sides than the Top ..you finish in the middle..

Exactly - they played the top 6 sides 7 times - we played them 10 times - until the draw is a proper home and away it will never be fair. This can be done either by culling teams or having 2 conferences.

 

[Tiger5150]

Good analysis, but our team doesnt need deep analysis. It needs to learn to defend. Our attack is good enough to win the 3 or 4 more games to make the 8. We need to defend.

 

[jrtiger]

senior players and leadership, with a bit more x-factor from players like Ponga and Best. if we can fill the remaining spots with experienced players (I know the market is dry), we'll be on their level.

 

[Tim Sheens]

**Missed tack. 631 755**
Tackle eff 89.8 87.9
Ptb speed 3.43 3.51 Sec
Runs 3828 3752
Run metres 33719 31839
Run m conc 34596 33606
Linebreaks 95 106
Linebreaks co131 147
Tackle busts 597 676
Offloads 201 288
Offloads con 206 198
Goals 58 76
Goal kick % 69 79
Kicks 484 438
Kick metres 13136 11325
**Kick ret mtr. 2286 1529**
Gen play pass 2074 2402
Errors 225 238
Pen awarded 110 109
**Pen conceded 79 104**

Missed tackles, kick returns and penalties stand out for me and a lot of that begins with losing the middle, even if we did get on top of the knights for good periods in our matches.

 

[Needaname]

I think one thing that sticks out more is the kick metres and kick returns to a lesser extent. Knights kick metres has been far superior to the tigers even with Pearce missing a good chunk.

The games we had Mbye at 5/8 it would be rare that he would kick more than 100 kick meters. Doueihi would do better but often not enough in support. Liddle put a good long kick in yesterday that just pulled up a touch long but it was good to see some variety. Already in one game Jock had more kick meters than both Doueihi and Mbye have produced.
Looking at the kick meter stats the top 8 halves all average between 300-350. Brooks is just under at 290.
As a team though we are at 14th for Kicks in play and Kick Meters. Interestingly though Roosters (15th) and Rabbitohs (16th) sit below us. I can understand the Roosters having no notable kicking half since the Keary injury but the Bunnies is odd.

I’m putting together another table of kick meters on average of kicks attempted and see where we fair with that.

Kick returns meters makes sense in many way. We are often pinned deep in our half and are under pressure receiving the kick. But it would be nice to see our fullbacks have a run first mentality. Daine often did this well and it was hit up into the teeth of the pack that was his undoing folded over by a huge BMM hit.

 

[happy_tiger]

As for the results , some teams match up well against some teams but horribly against others

I'd rather the Knights best 17 over our best 17