Let's look at some tape - LHS defence

[jirskyr]

The point that some folks are adamant that Mbye was obstructed in the first try, which I literally cannot understand, goes over to the other thread about biased refs.

If even Tigers fans are split on what I think is a clear ruling, how can anyone say a ref is biased?

No hell no way was Mbye obstructed, I would be fuming if that was called against us.

 

[bbobb]

The point that some folks are adamant that Mbye was obstructed in the first try, which I literally cannot understand, goes over to the other thread about biased refs.

If even Tigers fans are split on what I think is a clear ruling, how can anyone say a ref is biased?

No hell no way was Mbye obstructed, I would be fuming if that was called against us.

Thanks for the vids - useful stuff.

I am not 100% on the rule but the ball goes behind the decoy and while Mbye may have made a bad decision, he was definitely impeded to have fair attempt on the player receiving the ball.

 

[tig_prmz]

Good summary.

What's frustrating is that this stuff happens almost every game. There is always a big weakness, whether it's the Right, the left or the middle. It's either too many dropped balls or too many penalties or too many missed tackle. And we always self-implode. Always inconsistent

/rant over.

 

[TYGA]

The line needs to move together either stay on your man and if one comes in they all jam in and stop the ball runner. They all came in and the winger stayed out. That’s the problem. It starts on the inside Leilua, Brooks, Moses then Hoffman.

 

[Tiger5150]

Ive already had my say but agree with many others in saying thank you @Jirsky for putting these together.

 

[jirskyr]

I am not 100% on the rule

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operations/documentation/nrl_laws_interpretations_2020.pdf

>OBSTRUCTION
>
>The indicators for an obstruction include:
1 . (a) ‘Block’* or ‘Flat’ runner (who do not receive the ball) must not stop in the middle of the defensive line
(b) ‘Block’ or ‘Flat’ runner (who do not receive the ball) must not run at (chest or outside shoulder of) defender and initiate contact
(c) The Referee or Review Officials can determine the significance of contact initiated by the ‘Block’ or ‘Flat’ runner (who does not receive the ball) in impeding a defender’s involvement in a try scoring play
>
>2 . Ball Carriers must not run behind an active ‘Block’ or ‘Flat’ runner and disadvantage the defensive line
>
>3 . It will be deemed obstruction if the attacking players who run a ‘Sweep’^ line clearly receive the ball on the inside of the ‘Block’ or ‘Flat’ runner
>
>4 . Defensive decisions that commit defender to initiating contact with an attacking player(s) will not be deemed obstruction
>
>5 . Defensive decisions that commit defender to change their defensive line will not be deemed obstruction.
>
>*Block runners run lines towards an opposition goal line and are committed to receiving the ball close to the defensive line
>^Sweep runners run lines in an arc across the field behind a block runner

 

[Tiger5150]

The line needs to move together either stay on your man and if one comes in they all jam in and stop the ball runner. ***They all came in and the winger stayed out***. That’s the problem. It starts on the inside Leilua, Brooks, Moses then Hoffman.

I disagree with you here Tyga. IMO Hoffman never stayed out, he always came in but didnt get either his winger or the centre. In fact on the last try (Roberts) the centre caught the ball outside of Hoffman (our winger). I think it was his fault (as a 19yo rookie) but others think it was Mybye's ( I dont) BUT if I was Hoffman and they had already scored two easy tries with the winger in untouched, I would have made a point of staying out on my winger and at least make the centre score inside me.

 

[twentyforty]

The line needs to move together either stay on your man and if one comes in they all jam in and stop the ball runner. ***They all came in and the winger stayed out***. That’s the problem. It starts on the inside Leilua, Brooks, Moses then Hoffman.

I disagree with you here Tyga. IMO Hoffman never stayed out, he always came in but didnt get either his winger or the centre. In fact on the last try (Roberts) the centre caught the ball outside of Hoffman (our winger). I think it was his fault (as a 19yo rookie) but others think it was Mybye's ( I dont) BUT if I was Hoffman and they had already scored two easy tries with the winger in untouched, I would have made a point of staying out on my winger and at least make the centre score inside me.

I’ve always been of the belief that wingers should stay on their opposite number, because of the reason you’ve eluded to. This hasn’t been the case since wingers have been urged to get more involved with the play. To Hoffman’s credit he didn’t do what Nofa often does when faced with a 2 on 1, ie run through the line hoping for an interception. Ok, sure it has come off for him a couple of times but mostly not. Hoffman , not being familiar with Mbye, Brooks, Luchy and Doueihi (who was unsighted) did hesitate, but that’s definitely fixable and not a reason to send him to CC.

 

[clokan]

The point that some folks are adamant that Mbye was obstructed in the first try, which I literally cannot understand, goes over to the other thread about biased refs.

I agree that it wasn’t an obstruction, however I’ve seen a few that were similar attract penalties. It was the right decision, but had the roles been reversed I’d be nervous.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Hoffman and Mmbye have been taking lessons from Nofo
must be contagious lol

 

[happy_tiger]

I think in Hoffman's case it was a situation of follow the leader...he would of been quite nverous and having the captain and a experienced first grader inside him he obviously would be inclined to follow mbyes moves

That's jist my take on it anyway

No that's the golden rule , if your centre goes .....wingers goes as well ...your hoping to either force them back inside or to throw a 20+ metre cut out pass over two defenders ...a lot of footballers struggle to throw a cut out to their weaker side of that length accurately

Obviously this only applies when the attacking side has the numbers ...unless you are too close to the tryline you slide

It shows our line speed is slow ...attacking with your defence as you see Melbourne and the Roosters do well ...Souths did it well when we were pressing in the 2nd half

If you tear out of the line you need to hit and make it a dominant tackle ....if not you'll end up penalized or binned because you'll slow the play the ball down ..if you miss as we saw when Mbye misses Latrell your screwed

 

[diedpretty]

Rabbits Try 1
https://gfycat.com/finedimwittedcardinal

OK I can't figure out how to embed it.


Based on that (and I thought the same live but they only replayed a couple of times) penalty Tigers and Mbye & Hoffman didnt screw it up that badly.

No way is that an obstruction. Explain how you figure it.


Roberts hits Mbye's inside shoulder, Mbye cant get to Walker

Inside shoulder is legal. Outside shoulder is the issue. It's Mbye's bad read anyway, he makes the decision to come in on Roberts, he doesn't have to.

It was a bad read but Roberts does run in to him and hits on the outside shoulder. Its a 50/50 call.

 

[fibrodreaming]

In fact on the last try (Roberts) the centre caught the ball outside of Hoffman (our winger). I think it was his fault (as a 19yo rookie)

I'm no expert on the finer points of defensive structures so my views are probably of not much value.

But anyway I'll venture an opinion. Whenever I see the opposition centre take the ball outside our winger, I normally look to the middle for the source of the problem.

When our middle is getting rolled, and the edge defenders are sucked in, we are stripped of numbers on the flanks, and the wingers are on a hiding to nothing.

To blame the winger in these circumstances seems to me to miss the real source of the problem.

 

[jirskyr]

It shows our line speed is slow …attacking with your defence as you see Melbourne and the Roosters do well …Souths did it well when we were pressing in the 2nd half

I watched the Eels - Knights game intently yesterday, after doing the screen caps of the Souths tries, and it was so very clear to me how the Parra defensive line operated compared to Tigers.

Knights had a good amount of ball and they have good strike in their backs, but Eels got up fast out wide and cut off their options all match. You can't stop the overlaps emerging when the fullback gets involved, unless you also put your fullback into the line, which only ever happens on the tryline. So Eels were always facing a man shortage. But every single backline play you had the backrowers pressing down on the halves and eliminating their time, with Jennings and Blake up to either cut down the options further or pressure the catcher.

And after that, the wingers were also up, so you needed another touch-pass or cut-out to hit the winger. Knights simply couldn't get the ball out there. Even when the ball did get right to the edge, the pass was either rushed or the cover had made their way across.

And Jennings and Blake stuck all their tackles when coming in.

Compare that to Friday when Reynolds and Walker had an eternity to watch the defensive line and select their pass. Chalk and cheese.

The good news is we can improve and it's not rocket science, it's effort and experience. I think Talau has a better understanding of wing defence than Hoffman, though he isn't more experienced. Tigers line speed flagged after 20 minutes against Rabbits and never recovered. We missed Twal in that regard.

 

[Geo]

It shows our line speed is slow …attacking with your defence as you see Melbourne and the Roosters do well …Souths did it well when we were pressing in the 2nd half

I watched the Eels - Knights game intently yesterday, after doing the screen caps of the Souths tries, and it was so very clear to me how the Parra defensive line operated compared to Tigers.

Knights had a good amount of ball and they have good strike in their backs, but Eels got up fast out wide and cut off their options all match. You can't stop the overlaps emerging when the fullback gets involved, unless you also put your fullback into the line, which only ever happens on the tryline. So Eels were always facing a man shortage. But every single backline play you had the backrowers pressing down on the halves and eliminating their time, with Jennings and Blake up to either cut down the options further or pressure the catcher.

And after that, the wingers were also up, so you needed another touch-pass or cut-out to hit the winger. Knights simply couldn't get the ball out there. Even when the ball did get right to the edge, the pass was either rushed or the cover had made their way across.

And Jennings and Blake stuck all their tackles when coming in.

Compare that to Friday when Reynolds and Walker had an eternity to watch the defensive line and select their pass. Chalk and cheese.

The good news is we can improve and it's not rocket science, it's effort and experience. I think Talau has a better understanding of wing defence than Hoffman, though he isn't more experienced. Tigers line speed flagged after 20 minutes against Rabbits and never recovered. We missed Twal in that regard.

For sure we need to get better at being constantly offside out wide in D

 

[happy_tiger]

It shows our line speed is slow …attacking with your defence as you see Melbourne and the Roosters do well …Souths did it well when we were pressing in the 2nd half

I watched the Eels - Knights game intently yesterday, after doing the screen caps of the Souths tries, and it was so very clear to me how the Parra defensive line operated compared to Tigers.

Knights had a good amount of ball and they have good strike in their backs, but Eels got up fast out wide and cut off their options all match. You can't stop the overlaps emerging when the fullback gets involved, unless you also put your fullback into the line, which only ever happens on the tryline. So Eels were always facing a man shortage. But every single backline play you had the backrowers pressing down on the halves and eliminating their time, with Jennings and Blake up to either cut down the options further or pressure the catcher.

And after that, the wingers were also up, so you needed another touch-pass or cut-out to hit the winger. Knights simply couldn't get the ball out there. Even when the ball did get right to the edge, the pass was either rushed or the cover had made their way across.

And Jennings and Blake stuck all their tackles when coming in.

Compare that to Friday when Reynolds and Walker had an eternity to watch the defensive line and select their pass. Chalk and cheese.

The good news is we can improve and it's not rocket science, it's effort and experience. I think Talau has a better understanding of wing defence than Hoffman, though he isn't more experienced. Tigers line speed flagged after 20 minutes against Rabbits and never recovered. We missed Twal in that regard.

Line speed sounds easy to fix , but not so much

Keeping it up for 80 minutes isn't easy ....and having someone who can lead your line speed and set your line speed isn't easy to find

It used to be one of ET's playing strengths ......Brycie Gibbs before him

 

[hodgo]

i fail to see alot of people's logic 3 of the 4 clearly revolve around mybe decision or poor d. Now i think this is rare as mbye has been an excellent defender but he needs to take the rap as the leader and i would assume communicator on the back line.

 

[mike]

My read on them.

1st try no obstruction. It’s passed to the outside shoulder and Mbye makes a defensive decision to tackle the player without the ball. The problem I saw is that as Brooks and Mybe advanced while Luciano Leilua stops advancing about a metre behind. This gives Reynolds room to move and create the overlap. If LL had kept moving forward he may have tackled Reynolds or at the very least he would have cramped Reynolds and made him change his angle of attack. The run around creates the overlap.

2nd Try, straight out missed tackle by Mbye leaves the rookie Hoffman defending two. Not fair on the young bloke.

3rd try Mbye races up on the inside man and is too late to get to the player or the ball, again leaves the rookie Hoffman defending two. If Mybe stays in line the cutout pass would have been ineffective.

4th Try, just poor defensive read by the inside defenders. Wests Tigers had two or three defenders against an attacker who did not have and was never going to get the ball. Again poor rookie Hoffman defending against two.

The problem on our edges is not the edge it starts closer to the ruck with poor defensive reads and then the wingers are left 1 on 2. They are on a hiding to nothing. If they stay on their opponent they get pinged for not coming in and cutting off the play. If they come in on the inside attacker either one of three things will happen. a) They will tackle them, great defence. b) they won’t get to them on time, draw and pass the opposition scores untouched. c) they get to the inside man but a cutout pass is thrown and the opposition score untouched. 2 out of 3 scenarios are bad odds.

The inside defence needs fixing. Either they count better or they slide better.

 

[Tiger5150]

IMO everyone needs to relax. Our D has been good and in particular our left side has been good. One game it all turns to poo, but that also happens to be a game where we put a 19yo rookie on that wing.

Get Talau back and I think it goes back to being reliable.

 

[Geo]

IMO everyone needs to relax. Our D has been good and in particular our left side has been good. One game it all turns to poo, but that also happens to be a game where we put a 19yo rookie on that wing.

Get Talau back and I think it goes back to being reliable.

Drop everyone