Limit on overseas players

[goldcoast_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

 

[supercoach]

Mate 90% of these big islander boys are born and bred Aussie's and the boys from across the pond have no restrictions placed upon them as far as work goes. The only ones you could hold back are the Poms and the real islander boys and what would be the point.

The best way to develop play makers is simple, reduce the interchange by half so more players have to play more minutes

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Mate 90% of these big islander boys are born and bred Aussie's and the boys from across the pond have no restrictions placed upon them as far as work goes. The only ones you could hold back are the Poms and the real islander boys and what would be the point.

The best way to develop play makers is simple, reduce the interchange by half so more players have to play more minutes

That's a start, and will help
What happens at work though has no bearing on something like this though.
Super League have had it for years
A salary cap is illegal as well

 

[fairdinkum]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Ive never throught about this point but since youve brought it to my attention I have to say there is some merit to it. The super league have limits of OS players I can see -/+ for both sides of the argument if its introduced here.

The limit of say 3 or 4 OS players would force teams to generate their own players from Australia no doubt but would the quality of our league dip? If its introduced the OS players could be somewhat of a drawcard as we see in the Bigbash for example. Theres always been the argument that the league cant expand too much more as there isnt enough quality NRL players to go around and thats even with the current OS players. I disagree. Would the NRL need to reduce the number of teams? Would guys that go to Super league stay in Australia if they arent forced out because their current club has enough on their roster filled with OS players, maybe. All the current Island boys could be lost to Union if there is a smaller pathway to the NRL. Are there more islander players that league could convert from union if there was an island team? So much to consider.

Could it be possible that in the future we could see an Islander team to keep these players in league if an OS player limit is introduced? I would like for our league to be a pacific one. I think there are too many Sydney teams thats actually hurting our game for its future. Its not the 1950s anymore when the game needed to be localised to thrive, its a global community and logistics are lot easier to accomplish these days then 60 years ago.

My own personal pipe dream has been to see a true Australian/Pacific League. The superleague war was 20 years ago, our game has recovered, id love for the NRL to look at it. A Team from Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, 2 x Brisbane (or 1 x sunshine coast), Gold Coast, Townsville, Wollongong, Newcastle, 5 x Sydney, NZ, PNG, Islanders. Thats 18 teams. It would be a much fairer system. Everyone plays each other once for 17 rounds. The next year it alternates home and away games. Just like the origin 2 home 1 away alternate year system. Youd have 3 weeks for SOO that should be played on a friday night. No teams lose their origin players. The SOO players play more games as they are the elite players. A second game could be played on the Sunday to give fans their fill, it could be an island concept. 1 week for the Anzac test, Tonga/Samoa/PNG/Fiji tests and City/Country + 4 weeks for finals = 25 weeks of hard intense footy. Hopefully players will whinge less about too much footy, the rep players will probably whinge as they will play 25 weeks in a row most of them. Its better then the 30 week system we have now though. With every fan not having to watch their teams bye round. Boring! Its a better system then the current play a team in the 4th round then again in the 7th round, why do the bottom teams have to play a top team twice this year, why does the top team get to play a bottom team twice this year system. Food for thought.

 

[Goose]

There is very few players that are playing NRL that didnt come through the Aussie or kiwi club system, almost all are at least raised here with a huge percentage being born here.

You'd be looking at stopping maybe 2 or 3 fijians, half a dozen poms.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Ive never throught about this point but since youve brought it to my attention I have to say there is some merit to it. The super league have limits of OS players I can see -/+ for both sides of the argument if its introduced here.

The limit of say 3 or 4 OS players would force teams to generate their own players from Australia no doubt but would the quality of our league dip? If its introduced the OS players could be somewhat of a drawcard as we see in the Bigbash for example. Theres always been the argument that the league cant expand too much more as there isnt enough quality NRL players to go around and thats even with the current OS players. I disagree. Would the NRL need to reduce the number of teams? Would guys that go to Super league stay in Australia if they arent forced out because their current club has enough on their roster filled with OS players, maybe. All the current Island boys could be lost to Union if there is a smaller pathway to the NRL. Are there more islander players that league could convert from union if there was an island team? So much to consider.

Could it be possible that in the future we could see an Islander team to keep these players in league if an OS player limit is introduced? I would like for our league to be a pacific one. I think there are too many Sydney teams thats actually hurting our game for its future. Its not the 1950s anymore when the game needed to be localised to thrive, its a global community and logistics are lot easier to accomplish these days then 60 years ago.

My own personal pipe dream has been to see a true Australian/Pacific League. The superleague war was 20 years ago, our game has recovered, id love for the NRL to look at it. A Team from Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, 2 x Brisbane (or 1 x sunshine coast), Gold Coast, Townsville, Wollongong, Newcastle, 5 x Sydney, NZ, PNG, Islanders. Thats 18 teams. It would be a much fairer system. Everyone plays each other once for 17 rounds. The next year it alternates home and away games. Just like the origin 2 home 1 away alternate year system. Youd have 3 weeks for SOO that should be played on a friday night. No teams lose their origin players. The SOO players play more games as they are the elite players. A second game could be played on the Sunday to give fans their fill, it could be an island concept. 1 week for the Anzac test, Tonga/Samoa/PNG/Fiji tests and City/Country + 4 weeks for finals = 25 weeks of hard intense footy. Hopefully players will whinge less about too much footy, the rep players will probably whinge as they will play 25 weeks in a row most of them. Its better then the 30 week system we have now though. With every fan not having to watch their teams bye round. Boring! Its a better system then the current play a team in the 4th round then again in the 7th round, why do the bottom teams have to play a top team twice this year, why does the top team get to play a bottom team twice this year system. Food for thought.

I mentioned in the OP that it could involve a pacific team . I' agree that there are pluses and minuses, but a lot of the good young kids now are being not even looked because they don't fit the physical size that the present style of game wants. I might add that the present style is as boring as bats##t,
Something needs to change and just dropping to 6 won't make enough difference. We will still have am lot of straight up and down battering rams as we do now they'll just have to stay on the field a bit longer
I'm not saying this is the solution . But it's a beginning, and some variation may be possible.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

There is very few players that are playing NRL that didnt come through the Aussie or kiwi club system, almost all are at least raised here with a huge percentage being born here.

You'd be looking at stopping maybe 2 or 3 fijians, half a dozen poms.

But a lot of them are coming out here pretty young, Benjii came here purely for football and there would have been others in our own system that did the same,
I think you'd find that there's more than you think. This by the way would not just apply to Pacific Islanders but to all overseas players. We've never had to rely on O/s players as much as we do now . They've been great for the game , but maybe it's time to help them to get their pathway to a future team in the NRL. And to start giving more attention to our young kids coming through

 

[happy_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Look I watch junior footy most weekends and I like some parts of the new rule changes , but making teams have to play different half pairing all the time is crazy

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Look I watch junior footy most weekends and I like some parts of the new rule changes , but making teams have to play different half pairing all the time is crazy

Good point happy,

I'm the same as you, at junior Grounds with my g/son
Who plays half / hooker 5/8 most days , and that's the big failing with it , with the lengths of the game , in those age groups, it's very fragmented, plus our club persisted with some of the teams in his grade having up to 16 kids in the team , who ever is in these positions don't have much time to settle in before they have to change again
The idea is good , but there still needs some attention to it, I'm not sure of the answer , but it's hard to get all the kids an even amount of game time, with that many kids in a team( u /10)

 

[Demps]

Kinda racist.

 

[VanillaThunder]

We'd lose way too many islanders to union, and the Warriors would kill the comp after winning their 28th consecutive premiership.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[Juro]

Just thinking off the top of my head here…

Could they introduce a team combined weight limit? Add all the weights of the players in the team. If you want to have a big forward pack, it has to be offset by smaller backs. Or go with smaller, more skillful forwards combined with a couple of big wingers.

 

[balmain boy]

Kind of silly and racist really. They're nearly all aussies or kiwis with dual nationality.

 

[farmduck]

Sorry Original Poster but this is one of the worst threads I've ever read on an OZ RL forum. Do you know how many NRL players were NOT born in OZ or NZ? Most weeks it is less than 20 and half of them are English, not Pacificans. (Yes I know "Pacifican" isn't a real word but you know what I mean.)

Look at the recent Tests:
Fiji had 4 Fiji-born players
Tonga had 2 Tongans
Samoa had ZERO players born in Samoa.
PNG had nearly all PNG-born players but only 2 have ever played NRL.

Attempting to ban NZers from OZ teams is idiotic and probably illegal. Telling us that SL has quotas doesn't inspire me at all. The day NRL starts adopting ideas from SL is the day we should just fold and give it away. SL is a bunch of village pub teams barely hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

I won't go so far as to say this idea is racist but other posters have said so and I haven't disagreed with them. There should only ever be 1 quota for an NRL team: you have to be one of the 17 best players the team can put on the paddock that day.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Kinda racist.

Not at all . This would apply to ALL O/S players. The same as SL does.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Sorry Original Poster but this is one of the worst threads I've ever read on an OZ RL forum. Do you know how many NRL players were NOT born in OZ or NZ? Most weeks it is less than 20 and half of them are English, not Pacificans. (Yes I know "Pacifican" isn't a real word but you know what I mean.)

Look at the recent Tests:
Fiji had 4 Fiji-born players
Tonga had 2 Tongans
Samoa had ZERO players born in Samoa.
PNG had nearly all PNG-born players but only 2 have ever played NRL.

Attempting to ban NZers from OZ teams is idiotic and probably illegal. Telling us that SL has quotas doesn't inspire me at all. The day NRL starts adopting ideas from SL is the day we should just fold and give it away. SL is a bunch of village pub teams barely hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

I won't go so far as to say this idea is racist but other posters have said so and I haven't disagreed with them. There should only ever be 1 quota for an NRL team: you have to be one of the 17 best players the team can put on the paddock that day.

What's Racist about it when it when it applies to all O/S players. And is no more racist than SL
But Farm duck , obviously it's a good word to throw around, the idea is to get our clubs to start to again develope our juniors and country kids , and also to develop more Of the islanders and NZers home competitions with the aim to get their own teams in the NRL
I'd do some research if I was you as your numbers of Islanders and Kiwis playing in the NRL are much higher than your figures, or don't you count the players like Benji who came out here at a very young age especially for football. And went through the clubs systems

I don't want to see them barred from the NRL, and you would have seen that if you had read my post. I'd just like see their home competitions helped and a pathway to the NRL through their own Team
Sorry if the post doesn't suit you , but this forum is about opinions, and again, that's what I asked for , so if you want to call me a racist , don't hide behind another poster to do it.

 

[Saturnalia]

Thread kind of tackles two issues and intertwines them.

Issue #1\. Clubs developing their own players
Issue #2\. Restricting Overseas Talent
I'll tackle issue #1 Developing your own players

Should be a salary cap reduction i'd say 10% for each year a player has been with your junior system when they make their NRL Debut (capped at 30%).

If a player signs with another club and re-joins their original club this doesn't apply and they take up 100% of the cap space they normally would (ala Richards).

Pros: Encourages clubs to develop juniors for first grade
Discourages clubs from seeking talent from overseas
Adds Salary Cap relief for teams who do develop juniors
May work.

Cons: Requires Maths
It's different.
May not work

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Look I watch junior footy most weekends and I like some parts of the new rule changes , but making teams have to play different half pairing all the time is crazy

Good point happy,

I'm the same as you, at junior Grounds with my g/son
Who plays half / hooker 5/8 most days , and that's the big failing with it , with the lengths of the game , in those age groups, it's very fragmented, plus our club persisted with some of the teams in his grade having up to 16 kids in the team , who ever is in these positions don't have much time to settle in before they have to change again
The idea is good , but there still needs some attention to it, I'm not sure of the answer , but it's hard to get all the kids an even amount of game time, with that many kids in a team( u /10)

Not sure if you are experiencing this Happy, but over the last weeks in our club , in those ages, there is now the start of complaints through disgruntled parents that the two players are starting to run the ball too often, this is even after most of the coaches are instructing the two players that the extra runs are to be shared between them with no more than one run per set .
This is after the parents have been made aware that the rules have changed, God you can never please everyone

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Thread kind of tackles two issues and intertwines them.

Issue #1\. Clubs developing their own players
Issue #2\. Restricting Overseas Talent
I'll tackle issue #1 Developing your own players

Should be a salary cap reduction i'd say 10% for each year a player has been with your junior system when they make their NRL Debut (capped at 30%).

If a player signs with another club and re-joins their original club this doesn't apply and they take up 100% of the cap space they normally would (ala Richards).

Pros: Encourages clubs to develop juniors for first grade
Discourages clubs from seeking talent from overseas
Adds Salary Cap relief for teams who do develop juniors
May work.

Cons: Requires Maths
It's different.
May not work

Not the worst idea, although it would still need money to strengthen the Emerging countries,

 

[happy_tiger]

Just a question that I'd be interested to see other opinions on
over the last few years, ( and it's getting more prevalent, there's been a lot of talk about developement of halves ( or lack of it) and at least they are trying to do something about it with the rule changes in Mod league
But I think we have a bigger problem than that.
a lot of teams are not interested in producing their own players especially forwards, and over the last few years,Simply head overseas and look for 120 kg , 6'4" Polynesian or Kiwi forwards

Because of their size and often speed, coaches have just used forwards now as battering rams and the days of ball playing forwards has nearly gone
Shouldn't we be helping thes new countries to develop their own Leagues rather than grabbing all these players
I don't mean a ban on overseas players but rather a limit of two or three per team( like super league )
The result hopefully would be that Coaches would have to start to develop australian forwards that can do something with the ball again to counter the Polynesians countries and their advantage in size.
Also it would allow the game to get bigger in their own countries. Money would have to be put in to help with the game in the Pacific, and there is no problem if there eventually would be a Pacific Islanders team in the NRL.
Maybe the dropping of the interchange numbers will have the same effect, but if it doesn't,
This may make clubs to start with developing Australian kids in those positions, as the
Ball playing forwards are becoming a thing of the past
Just an idea.

Look I watch junior footy most weekends and I like some parts of the new rule changes , but making teams have to play different half pairing all the time is crazy

Good point happy,

I'm the same as you, at junior Grounds with my g/son
Who plays half / hooker 5/8 most days , and that's the big failing with it , with the lengths of the game , in those age groups, it's very fragmented, plus our club persisted with some of the teams in his grade having up to 16 kids in the team , who ever is in these positions don't have much time to settle in before they have to change again
The idea is good , but there still needs some attention to it, I'm not sure of the answer , but it's hard to get all the kids an even amount of game time, with that many kids in a team( u /10)

Not sure if you are experiencing this Happy, but over the last weeks in our club , in those ages, there is now the start of complaints through disgruntled parents that the two players are starting to run the ball too often, this is even after most of the coaches are instructing the two players that the extra runs are to be shared between them with no more than one run per set .
This is after the parents have been made aware that the rules have changed, God you can never please everyone

Not really GCT , our teams strength is we have the best of both worlds , a couple of big hard running forwards and some quick backs with good footwork

Our best player is out injured , but the coaches son is our first receiver and he don't put up with garbage You don't listen , you get dragged and our hooker is a real good un fearless in defence