Looking at the finalists thus far..

[LARDS]

not sure where to put this, but


Luke Brooks fault. Pigs didn't do their job but he should of won those games on his own. /sarcasm
Seriously this shows how some people on the forum really over rates our forwards.

I think it points to our bad defence.

 

[Strider]

Our forwards were easily one of the worst in the comp 2020. Probably worst forwards in West's Tigers history for me, since merger.

 

[jadtiger]

Our forwards were easily one of the worst in the comp 2020. Probably worst forwards in West's Tigers history for me, since merger.

Senior forwards let the team down badly and its very hard for young blokes to do it all on their own.

 

[happy_tiger]

Is finishing 8th or 7th really much of an achievement these days anyway? If we finished 8th or 7th we probably get rolled just like Knights do yesterday anyway

Rather make it, and have an actual shot of going deep into finals footy than limp in

Unless you’re on a run aka Parra 2009 or Cows 2017 more than likely you’re just cannon fodder. For example not sure what confidence knights can take out of making it then just getting blown off the park

Conversely, Newcastle looked okay for the initial period after I tuned in just after half-time. They were within range and had they'd provided one stronger set in defence or taken their chances then, the knights would have been a big show in the current game of momentum, where one mistake, lapse or referee's decision can change a game and it did.

Good point.

But the lack of desire in a finals game is pretty concerning with the talent they have. Up at 14-0 then letting in 46 unanswered points is no excuse, even if a referee shifted momentum in the 2nd half. Just imagine if souffs didn’t have butter fingers in the first 15.


Yep, we can all be critical of our own club, but Newcastle would have to be the most underperforming team in the comp, considering their roster. They really should be pushing top 4 or 5 with that team. Gonna get Frizell next year also, so they will have half of the NSW pack, but will probably still struggle.

Klemmer is no longer an Origin player..not selected..

Well he was for many years up until now, no need to nitpick, you get my point ?

So was Tamou..but that don't count ..aparrently..

So who would you rather be coming to us
Tamou or Frizell ?

Both

Choose one !

Tahlia Splinters is stuck on the fence again

 

[happy_tiger]

not sure where to put this, but


Luke Brooks fault. Pigs didn't do their job but he should of won those games on his own. /sarcasm
Seriously this shows how some people on the forum really over rates our forwards.

I think it points to our bad defence.

Brooks uninspiring kicking game

 

[Tigerbuck63]

not sure where to put this, but


Good stats shows we need go forward and someone better controlling the game. Its only a couple of % between some but that's what they say the 1% count.

 

[jirskyr]

I can't help but think we are light years away from being able to compete, at that level...Not saying we'll never be, but I am not sure we have enough juniors coming thru (say like Cronulla or the Broncos) showing signs of great potential, as future players.
I know you can argue that the finals are a different game, and they are, but I can't see how, had we made the 8, we would have done anything more than make up the number.

Grim...


We got within 7 of the Minor Premiers, within 4 of the eels, within 2 of beating Souffs, within 8 of raiders, and we easily beat the Sharks.

We have a lot improvement to go but not light years away. Like other years, the only thing that has kept us out of the 8 is losses to teams below us.

We beat every team ***that finished*** below us..

Yes but Titans and Warriors ***were*** below us when we played them, we should have beaten both of them and if we did, they would have ***finished*** below us as well. Kinda the whole point.

Ah, if we'd beaten everyone who ended up above us they would all have been below us as well.

Where do you draw the line? What about the teams below us after Round 2?

 

[jirskyr]

not sure where to put this, but



Good stats shows we need go forward and someone better controlling the game. Its only a couple of % between some but that's what they say the 1% count.

I'm afraid the table doesn't say much at all. Pretty though.

It appears distribution of PTB does predict first and last, even though they are by minor percentage points, but the 3rd and 4th teams finished 8th and 10th on the ladder. Cowboys are Top 6. Roosters were mid-pack.

It's not even just about go-forward, it might be speaking to your defence (where the opposition can carry the ball to when you start your set), kick pressure, kick return metres.

The fact that 4th and 5th on the ladder (Roosters and Raiders) were in the mid to bottom of PTB distribution may even show it's not so important where your PTBs are if you can still score points all over the park, or execute more regularly when you do actually make it into their end. Warriors spend 1/5 tackles inside opponents 20 but did bugger all for their points-for.

 

[fibrodreaming]

I’m afraid the table doesn’t say much at all.

It does tell us that the two teams that had the most ptb's in the their opponents' 20 and the least ptb's in their own half are in the grand final.

It tells us that the team with the most ptb's in their own half won the wooden spoon.

It confirms what we all knew, namely, that we struggled to get out of our own half (second worst behind the Donkeys).

What is amazing is that we had the fewest ptb's of any club in our opponents half and yet we were 7th in the total number of tries scored.

In my opinion the table confirms my belief that our troubles begin and end with our forwards.

 

[happy_tiger]

I can't help but think we are light years away from being able to compete, at that level...Not saying we'll never be, but I am not sure we have enough juniors coming thru (say like Cronulla or the Broncos) showing signs of great potential, as future players.
I know you can argue that the finals are a different game, and they are, but I can't see how, had we made the 8, we would have done anything more than make up the number.

Grim...


We got within 7 of the Minor Premiers, within 4 of the eels, within 2 of beating Souffs, within 8 of raiders, and we easily beat the Sharks.

We have a lot improvement to go but not light years away. Like other years, the only thing that has kept us out of the 8 is losses to teams below us.

We beat every team ***that finished*** below us..

Yes but Titans and Warriors ***were*** below us when we played them, we should have beaten both of them and if we did, they would have ***finished*** below us as well. Kinda the whole point.

Ah, if we'd beaten everyone who ended up above us they would all have been below us as well.

Where do you draw the line? What about the teams below us after Round 2?

When will we ever learn ...we need to stop looking at who is below us and start looking who is above us ...we aren't going to win premierships if we can't beat Top 8 sides

 

[happy_tiger]

I'm guessing everyone on the Forum barring Fade to Black are hoping the Storm win

 

[Tigerbuck63]

not sure where to put this, but



Good stats shows we need go forward and someone better controlling the game. Its only a couple of % between some but that's what they say the 1% count.

I'm afraid the table doesn't say much at all. Pretty though.

It appears distribution of PTB does predict first and last, even though they are by minor percentage points, but the 3rd and 4th teams finished 8th and 10th on the ladder. Cowboys are Top 6. Roosters were mid-pack.

It's not even just about go-forward, it might be speaking to your defence (where the opposition can carry the ball to when you start your set), kick pressure, kick return metres.

The fact that 4th and 5th on the ladder (Roosters and Raiders) were in the mid to bottom of PTB distribution may even show it's not so important where your PTBs are if you can still score points all over the park, or execute more regularly when you do actually make it into their end. Warriors spend 1/5 tackles inside opponents 20 but did bugger all for their points-for.

Well Melbourne / Penrith both into the GF and these two teams had the best stats. we are a long way off a top 8 team.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

I'm guessing everyone on the Forum barring Fade to Black are hoping the Storm win

Yep - rather see storm WIN
Reviewing finals played the Storm have looked better, Panthers show lack of finals experience but have managed to win both games. Two best teams all year as long as the ref does not influence the game this year. Send Smith out a winner and the media will need to jump on another story.

 

[Russell]

Feel the Storm will have to get off to a real good start, think the NRL and the Refs will favor the "Riff" and it will be easier for the Ref to control scores and field position if the "Riff" are in front.

I live in hope that "The Pamfers" get flattened though and have their egos and arrogance knocked out of them. As for the coach....don't get me started.

 

[happy_tiger]

not sure where to put this, but



Good stats shows we need go forward and someone better controlling the game. Its only a couple of % between some but that's what they say the 1% count.

I'm afraid the table doesn't say much at all. Pretty though.

It appears distribution of PTB does predict first and last, even though they are by minor percentage points, but the 3rd and 4th teams finished 8th and 10th on the ladder. Cowboys are Top 6. Roosters were mid-pack.

It's not even just about go-forward, it might be speaking to your defence (where the opposition can carry the ball to when you start your set), kick pressure, kick return metres.

The fact that 4th and 5th on the ladder (Roosters and Raiders) were in the mid to bottom of PTB distribution may even show it's not so important where your PTBs are if you can still score points all over the park, or execute more regularly when you do actually make it into their end. Warriors spend 1/5 tackles inside opponents 20 but did bugger all for their points-for.

When you look at each side seperately it tells a story ..you used the Cowboys ..they can grind the metres out but then don't have someone who can capitalize on the great field position

Some sides have great kicking games and good kick chase

Some sides are like us and can't stop teams just ramming us up the guts and continually getting into good field position and then starting sets in horrible field position

Others have big packs themselves and can get out of bad field positions ..but can't prevent sides doing the same to them

You break every side down and you can see their issues that fit that graph

 

[jirskyr]

In my opinion the table confirms my belief that our troubles begin and end with our forwards.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but if we are talking about analysis of forwards performance, why would we be looking at an obscure stat like "tackled in own half"? As I said, there are a large number of reasons why you might spend time camped in your own half, including poor kick return metres from back 3, poor kick pressure, bad kicking options on your 5th tackle etc.

If we are going to look at forwards, it's much more straightforward to just look at performance of the forwards - run metres, metres per carry and per minute, post-contact metres, tackles, tackle effectiveness.

 

[jirskyr]

What is amazing is that we had the fewest ptb’s of any club in our opponents half and yet we were 7th in the total number of tries scored.

That's kind of my point. Does it matter if you have PTB in your opponent's half if you can still score points? Didn't stop Roosters or Raiders either.

 

[jirskyr]

best stats

Best STAT. I still think it's an interesting but obscure table.

Far more effective and direct predictor - defence, i.e. points conceded during season. The two teams in the GF are the two teams that finished top of the ladder, hardly a surprise. They also have the best defensive records in the comp. Also hardly a surprise and a far more direct predictor of ladder position.

In fact you can predict the Top 5 2020 simply from points conceded, almost in perfect order: Panthers (238), Storm (276), Eels (288), Roosters (322), Raiders (317). Independent of points scored. Bottom 4 teams also in bottom 5 for points conceded, with Tigers being the only anomaly on account of a strong points-for (Tigers scored more points in 2020 than Newcastle and Parramatta).

Broncos had by far the worst defence, again a clear predictor of last. It's the only thing that kept Bulldogs from the spoon.

 

[jirskyr]

You break every side down and you can see their issues that fit that graph

Maybe, but I think there are better stats to look at.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Cameron Smith will control everything like he always does and munster Paps and JAC will add the brilliance.
Storm need to niggle the 6 Luia,Clearly is unflappable but think the 6 has weaknesses and the backs could go off the boil if things don't go the way of the Riff early.
Think Melbourne win comfortable 16 nil half time and 36 10 final score, will be tight for first 20 or so.